Harry

Not necessarily. Steve doesn’t need to sell. He just needs to get ******* real and drop the idea that he can achieve success HIS way. You can’t. Get a manager who can, allow him to do it, and call off your dogs

Not really. The club were still getting Pearson to adhere to the club’s philosophy. Pearson didn’t have free rein. Name 1 thing or indeed 1 person that changed in the recruitment area during Nigel’s 2.5 years. None. We were still committed to doing the same things. Nige brought his own experience and respect to the playing staff that were presented to him, but the model above him was still majorly flawed.

For the last few years, Bristol City FC has been attempting to create its own ‘model’. Their idea of the optimum way to run a football club to provide it with the best chance of success. The ‘Model’ is supposed to be one where everything at the club is ‘aligned’. It says that all of our teams from the under 8’s through to the first team will play the same way. I’m not sure that’s quite such a good idea but hey ho. But the most crucial element for me is that the model says that the first team will play a certain way and that we have a ‘Technical Director’ to oversee this and ensure it’s on track and everything is aligned. Personally, at this level of football, I don’t think that works. The scene is such that, any manager coming into the club should be of a certain ‘type’ and conform to a certain set of principles. The club have created a philosophy (call it an identity if you like) as to how they want to play football and any manager should align (there’s that word again) with that. The Technical Director runs the recruitment side of the business. He determines what players we sign and what manager and coaches we sign. He will try to conform to the club principles and appoint managers and coaches who will ‘fit’ and sign players who will ‘fit’. We see this sort of model at the top end of the game. Many of the biggest clubs run on a Director of Football type of model, where the manager has only limited say in the player recruitment and is basically just tasked with getting on with it, with the rather expensive tools he is provided. This doesn’t work at our level. We see this in all it’s gory (yes, not glory) with the Tinnion/Manning appointment. We have a club philosophy that desires to play in a certain way and players have been signed to attempt to slot into that style. We now have a manager who has been appointed who clearly likes to adopt a very different philosophy. I don’t blame Manning for this. We approached him. He didn’t apply for this job. He had a clear and evident CV, a body of work behind him, that was obvious to anyone who bothered to look that was at odds with our own club model. Furthermore, this new manager, whilst not having players who can play his way, doesn’t have very much say in how to fix this. His first transfer window and we make 4 permanent signings - 3 of which we wanted before the new manager got here. So the new manager arrives, doesn’t have players he wants and then the ‘club model’ signs 3 players that ‘the club model’ wanted. This is a huge issue for me. We are attempting to recreate models that have had success at places like Brighton, Brentford and even bloody Luton. But whilst those clubs had certain recruitment models, they didn’t dictate a ‘playing philosophy’ throughout the club. They just had very thorough and clever scouting and recruitment modelling. It didn’t dictate the playing style. Whenever there was a manager change the new boss still has his own free reign in terms of how he played and the recruitment model would then have to ‘align’ with the managers philosophy - not the other way round. When Dean Smith took over from Mark Warburton, he did things differently and they recruited accordingly. Likewise when Frank then took over from Smith, he had different philosophies on pressing, defensive positioning, midfield solidity etc. and the club then recruited accordingly. Luton played a certain way under Jones, but when Edwards arrived he harnessed what was already good but brought his own style to it and the club then recruited accordingly. What we have at Bristol City is a dictatorial model, whereby the Technical Director and Recruitment Team have defined a model and anyone that arrives at the club must buy-in to that model. There is no wavering. Yes, a new manager might have a bit of a say in some signings but generally they are targeted based on our defined modelling. Surely it’s obvious to anyone that this just doesn’t work. The talk of ‘everything at this club is aligned, from the under 8’s to the first team’ is just a false platitude. It’s a strapline that they think is clever “hey look at us, we’ve got an identify and model, we’re unique”. That might work well at Barcelona or Man City but it’s pointless in the championship. It’s not what will actually bring success on the pitch. To achieve success on the pitch at this level you need a manager who is allowed to run the first team in his own way. Who won’t be dictated to by inferiors who spout about an identity and an alignment throughout the club. It’s time for Manning to depart, in my opinion, but it’s also time for the club to drop the nonsense and stop acting like a billy big bollox. The club think that they have a clever way of doing things and that it’s the only way of separating themselves from the challenging division we are in. It’s not clever. It’s nonsense. Drop the bullcrap. The way to achieve success was evident to us a few years ago when a man called Steve Cotterill was appointed. I wasn’t his biggest fan when he got here, and I also think the time was right for him to go, but the period he was here, there is no denying that he’s been the only manager in recent years that’s done things his own way and said “balls” to the ownership and ‘model’. Cotterill worked with an experienced Chief Scout and identified the best available players and signed them to fit a way of playing that HE wanted. None of this “we’re all aligned from the u8’s to the tea lady”. Just an experienced manager with an experienced chief scout, putting together a squad that would play to the managers identity, not the clubs identity. It’s time to ditch the bullshit. Get out there and employ a manager with cahuna’s, one with a CV that demands respect from his players, let him bring in the players that HE wants, not players that the ‘club’ have targeted for the last few windows. Let him put his own team together to play the way that HE wants. The current model stinks. There are people in positions of authority that have real negative impact on this club who are not fit for purpose. We need a board of directors who can appoint a respected manager, who in turn will be empowered to bring in his own trusted recruitment team or chief scout, sign his own players and have zero meddling from unqualified nobodies. Our model is shit. And we will get nowhere with it.

Respectfully, I completely disagree. There were absolutely no positives today. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

Don’t just stop at Jon & Brian. Is our recruitment set up ‘best in class’? Nope. Is Jon the best chairman a championship club could appoint? Nope. Is Tinnion the best DoF a championship club could appoint? Nope. Is Gilhespy the best head of recruitment a championship club could employ? Nope. Is Kalifa Cisse the best coach a championship club could appoint? Nope - he was scouting in France until recently! Is Pat Mountain the best coach a championship club could employ? Nope - had anyone even heard of him before he arrived here? Is Gavin Marshall the best CEO a championship club could employ? Nope. He was a finance manager at computershare before arriving here! Is Downsy the best person to employ as stadium announcer? Nope. Has Steve ever appointed the best available manager? Nope. Yes, I’m at the point where Manning has to go. But that won’t solve any problems at this club.

Nope. Didn’t spot any of those. Kelly was already here before Tinnion returned to the club, Semenyo was recommended by someone at SGS and Scott was due to relationships developed in Guernsey by Steve

Yeah. That wasn’t particularly inspiring was it!

I’ll tell you where I am. Today was the worst performance under Manning so far. I am someone who originally said on here that I didn’t think Manning’s style would suit our players. However, once he was appointed I was happy to see what he could do. I felt in the early games I did see some signs of progress. He did actually manage to get our players to start to keep the ball much better. Ok, a lot of it was quite slow possession, but that’s where the ‘fit’ comes in. Our players and his style do not fit. So whilst they showed some signs of being able to keep the ball a bit better, it was never consistent enough nor anywhere near quick or slick enough. But the early signs were one of “ok, he can at least get them to pass it to each other which I didn’t think was possible”. The other slight positives I saw in some of the early games was the ability for us to run in behind full backs, and into channels, where ‘sometimes’ someone had the ounce of ability to find the right pass. I felt a little positive on some of those early games that he was a) managing to get us to keep the ball better and b) managing to get some decent movement up front. But…… and it’s a big BUT. It’s REALLY REALLY tailed off. To the point where I am now majorly concerned. Those early signs were enough for me to say “ok, let’s give him a bit of time and see what he can do”. But the last 2 months have been pretty dreadful. The only game where I felt really positive was after Watford away. I thought in that game we had found a formula. We were good both on the ball and off of it and we looked really well organised. Ever since then I haven’t seen any positives. And things have been sliding backwards quite badly. To the opening poster - whilst I can understand your points to a certain extent, I actually think the writing is on the wall now and I can’t personally put any faith in Manning any more. There are a few things to note : 1) We spent 2.5 years signing players who were ‘runners’ ‘counter attackers’ ‘workers’. We then approach and poach a manager (who didn’t apply for the role) who clearly has a CV which displays a totally different philosophy. Why?? 2) We have a good stadium and a good base to build from but we continually employ people who are not ‘best in class’. I am still highly critical of our recruitment set up. Even more so now - if we are targeting a manager with a clear body of work that doesn’t align in any way possible with the players we’ve spent 3 years signing. If Mannings head has to roll then so does Tinnion’s head and Gilhespy’s head 3) Prior to this week I was still sitting in the camp that says “ok, let’s give him time” but the recent trend has been very much downward and today for me was a low. Very very poor in all aspects both on the pitch and tactically. The press conference on Thursday was very telling for me. Manning openly admitted that this squad were not capable of playing his way. Mainly, that is a huge fault of Tinnion. But for me Manning shouldn’t have said this and shouldn’t be looking to adapt. He really should stick to his principals. I don’t think he should adapt to this group. He should double down on his beliefs. After all; that was why we poached him! That for me showed a weak mentality. I’d prefer him to stick to his guns, but he wilted in front of my eyes. And then with a performance like today, that was now the final straw for me.

No. The loss of possession that ended up allowing their full back to run inside which ended up causing Zak a problem

Have to question what TGH was doing to gift them possession to then win the corner

Ha ha. You’ve outed yourself young William No doubt some of your haters will ask what the ‘C’ stands for!!??

If you watch it you’ll understand the context. I think you’re being a tad facetious again Mr Dante. Yes, those were the words which were said but it was in the context of ‘we’ve been crap for 2 games but before that we’d come off the back of positive performances vs Southampton as well as Forest twice.’ 20 games wasn’t a ‘scientific’ stat he’s studied and concluded. It was just a throwaway comment that whilst he acknowledges the last 2 have been bad, it’s not been all bad over the last couple of months. You know as well as I do that he doesn’t actually specifically mean he’s happy with 19 out of the last 20 performances.

Yep. I got the sense he didn’t really want to say exactly that but it came out. As Fevs said; and I agree, we’ve not really been trying to play Manning’s desired way for a few weeks. So there has clearly already been an element of adaptation. If we look at the first few games, he clearly came in and tried to get us to play with much more possession. Sometimes this was good but sometimes it was slow. Too slow. But you could see that we were trying to keep the ball much more. Problem is that these players aren’t capable of doing that consistently enough, and definitely not quick enough when under pressure. By quick enough, this is in speed of thought and decision making as well as speed of execution. I think LM has realised this and we have kind of reverted to type, ie our old ‘counter attacking’ manners. Fevs’ stats will back up that we are good at pressing and winning the ball back high up the pitch and creating chances off of that. So we’re kinda back to our old ways of being a threat when we haven’t got the ball. Which is totally counter to what LM ideally wants. He’s no doubt realised that some of our players don’t quite have that ability to execute exactly what he wants. This means he will (and I think to an extent already has) have to adapt. He’ll have to sacrifice his own ideologies until he can recruit (and he alludes to this in the interview today too). When he says ‘the processes don’t change’, that doesn’t mean he isn’t adapting/altering tactically. Just means they’ll keep doing the same things on the training pitch and in the meeting room (which revolves around instilling behaviours, empowerment, decision making, overcoming barriers etc). That’s the ‘processes’ that won’t change. The actual tactics have already changed and I think he knows that he is working with a limited group in terms of trying to get what he desires. He’s having to meet them halfway a little bit I think. Allow them to revert to type and play to their strengths. As has been mentioned a few times lately, I did say prior to his arrival that his style of play would not suit our squad. And I think he now realises that. What you have to be critical of is the process by which he was appointed here. It’s very very evident from his CV exactly what type of football he wants to play. It was also very very evident what type of football our squad are best at. And never the twain shall meet. These 2 things are at total odds. So it calls into question why Tinnion targeted Manning. BT “Hi it’s Brian. We think you’re a great young up and coming coach and we think you’re the right fit for us to take us up” LM “Great, happy to come on board” BT “here’s our squad. We play 4 at the back and really suit a counter attacking philosophy” LM “well, I prefer to play with a 3 and like to dominate possession and enjoy wing backs, 2 dynamic midfielders and a creative number 10” BT “sorry. We haven’t got that. But you’re a good coach aren’t you, sort it out” LM “why did you approach me then? You know my ideals and you know this squad doesn’t suit” BT “We have a plan. We’re all aligned. We’re a top end squad. We’ve got great chance of success. get on with it, I know what I’m doing”

Yeh, it’s a maybe. Actually, I won’t have this dilemma as I won’t be making it to the game due to the early kickoff. So the A&S Police and SAG unit are absolute tosspots as well as Big Dave!

Ah yes! I forgot to add Wembley to my list. Good shout

Unconnected but slightly tenuous. At FGR on Tuesday there was a ‘neutral’ stood right next to me, but he was clearly there to support Wrexham. I made sure I cheered and shouted extra loud right next him when FGR scored. I know it was only FGR but I didn’t see the need for him to keep saying ‘go on’ or ‘well done’ whenever Wrexham did something. Had that been at AG I genuinely think he’d have had someone confront him. Anyway - back to Big Dave from Knowle. Even though he was generally a clump of a player.

Marlon is one of the best players who’ve played for us in the last 25 years. And he didn’t give up for half a year, have a first touch into next week and then join a rival.

For me, old grounds visited are : Brighton, West Ham, Brentford, Leicester, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Cardiff, Swansea, Millwall, Stoke, Rotherham, Derby, Bolton, Oxford, Gas, Wigan, Shrewsbury, Reading, Walsall, Colchester, Chesterfield, York. Technically could claim Charlton & Wimbledon too as went to their old grounds when they each didn’t have one. So, 22 + 2.

Sod him. He wasn’t very good when he was here. He only achieved cult status because someone made up a song rhyming Knowle with Senegal. He now plays for those shits over the border. **** him. Why would I cheer him?

We’d need Tins the jizmopper again …..

So I assume going to Weston wouldn’t have had a mental impact on him, but going to Bath does?

Thanks Silvio. The comments referred to prior to LM’s arrival are in the link above. Page 5 I think. As you say, I had reservations. But now he’s here I’m prepared to give him more than 3 months. But thanks for referring to my original comments on him. Some posters who accuse me of being up Liam’s backside would do well to read it again. I’m certainly not up his backside. I just want him to have a fair crack of the whip and get more than 3 months before we call for his head. Thats the only ‘defence’ of Manning that I’ve been putting up. Had that 3 months been a total disaster, I can fully understand. But it’s not been a total disaster. It’s had ups and downs, some good highs and some poor lows. But when we start to accuse him of ripping up the pathway and causing mental health problems for our youngsters just because a 17 year old has gone out on loan, I actually think many of our fans are losing their minds!

You do know don’t you, that this obviously wouldn’t include team selection. I would call you a bird brain but you’ll accuse me of getting personal and DM me again!

Oh, and please tell me where it was exactly that I said “Tinnion is in charge of team selection”? You do love to misinterpret stuff and then run with it, don’t you. I’ll explain it for you again. Why would Tinnion, who loves the academy so much and is super proud of the pathway, employ a head coach who rips it up in front of his eyes and loans out his star boy seriously effecting his mental health?

So, can you confirm. I’m not on ignore any more?