Harry

Again, aside from the Cardiff debacle, there were only 2 games where he only had 1 fit CB. And we had to fill in with a combo of Pring & King. And we got 3 points from those 2 games. As said, LM has only had 2 fit CB’s now for 23 games! He hasn’t been able to rotate these. But the rotation across the rest of the team has been there, almost equally, for both managers. We’re basically just talking about only having 1 CB fit for 2 games. That’s the only real difference and hence why I’m not willing to hear that injuries and availability were so much worse for Nige. Yes - it was the case for 3 games.

I’m not sure on that to be honest. Have another look at Dave’s injury data on page 1. Let’s take out the Cardiff game as it’s absolutely acknowledged that we were screwed in that game. If we take NP’s other 13 games he’s had : Midfield : 11 of 13 games where he had James, Williams, Knight, TGH & King all available. Front 3 : 11 of 13 games where he had Wells, Cornick, Bell, Sykes, Mehmeti, plus Yeboah (who he was using). Add Weimann too for 7 of those 13 games. Left back : He had Pring & Roberts available for all games. Centre backs : Yes this was a problem area. He only had Vyner, Dickie & Naismith for 4 of those 13 games. So we were down to 2 fit CB’s for the majority of NP’s games. However - LM has only had 2 fit CB’s for every single one of his games. Right back : the only area where we technically didn’t have proper cover, however, TGH has played there plenty so there was always an option. The rotation options were definitely there for every position expect CB. Which is the same for LM. I think we’re getting a bit carried away by the ‘availability and rotation’ argument. Yes, the Cardiff game was horrendous for us, but in the other 13 games NP presided over there were rotation options in every position.

Right back. Signed by Tinnion. Bombed by GJ. He was at Sheff as assistant to Darren Moore

Bakinson. Hunt. Jamie Smith

As noted in the stats I presented, we pick up most points against that ‘middle 9’ sides. Based on the games played so far, if the same PPG rings true then we hit 59. Not saying it’ll happen, just saying that at the moment we are on course for that, based on all games played so far and where in the table those other teams sit. If we get relegated then Manning will rightly be sacked and I’d also suggest that Tinnion should be too. And Jon relieved of any input whatsoever. If we end up on less than 59, then we’ve ended up worse than last season and therefore questions would need to be asked about Manning’s future but again also Brian & Jon too.

Okay I’ll compromise The Cardiff game was a crisis. There were 9 players out. The previous 2 games were a challenge, with 6 players out. But I still think TGH could have been deployed at RB to help matters. But, as an overall comparison based on your chart : Nige had 2 games with 6 missing, 1 game with 9 missing and 1 game with 4 missing. Liam has had 5 games with 5 missing and 7 games with 4 missing. I’d say that, Cardiff game aside, it’s a pretty even record overall.

It was only the Cardiff game in which he had to play a kid. The other 2 games listed above he had 3 first teamers on the bench plus Yeboah who he’d already used a number of times. In the Cov & Ipswich games, yes we had a shortage of CB’s. But as said earlier, he then weakened us at RB as well. He should have played TGH there (who he’d already played there 3 times before). Knight & James in CM. Yes we were a bit short at CB but it was only the Cardiff game in which we had a ‘crisis’.

TGH was available for all those games to play right back but he chose not to. Even though he’d played him at right back 3 times before and he’d had experience at right back for West Brom. Please don’t tell me we “didn’t have a right back for 4 games” when we clearly did.

So if we take NP’s 14 games and then LM’s first 14 games to make an even representation. NP had players unavailable 53 counts. LM had players unavailable 55 counts. So. More unavailability for LM. The only biggies during NP’s 14 games was Conway (during which we actually gained good results without him) and Vyner. The only game that injuries seriously hampered us was Cardiff. Thats the only one in which there were no defensive options. Ultimately I’m not having ‘squad availability’ as an excuse. It’s not a factor, apart from 1 game v Cardiff. They’ve both had injuries to players that have hampered them.

Re Point 2. I agree. We should be aiming higher this season. We finished on 59 last year and so we’d want improvement. So neither is good enough. Re point 1, I’m not having that. Nige was without Conway for 7 games. A period in which he got 11 points. Nige was without Wells for 3 games whilst Liam was without him for 7 games. Liam has had Pring missing at times. Hasn’t had a single minute out of Naismith. Has had Twine out. Has had Sykes out. The only major change really is that Nige had Vyner out for 6 or 7 games I think. Ultimately though, none of that matters. End of the day, current trend would suggest 59 points. The same as it was trending for Nige. As I mentioned the other day, we are basically getting the same results overall but just in a slightly different way. Does that mean Liam should be under scrutiny. Yes. To an extent. But it certainly doesn’t mean “get rid” like many on here are ridiculously shouting for. It basically means we are where we are and neither manager was able to get any more out of it. We’re a 59 point team, whether Nige or Liam is in charge. And that is purely down to the players we have. 2 managers playing different ways are getting roughly the same results in different ways. We have a 12th place squad of players. That’s where we are.

Why are you replying to me? You told me I wasn’t allowed to reply to you. Does this only work one way?

Interesting. I would caveat this with the fact that LM has not yet faced all of the teams. There are 7 teams he’s yet to face as he’s had 2 games against 4 opponents (Southampton, Watford, Middlesbrough & QPR). it’s quite interesting to split these games up against Top 7, Bottom 7 and Middle 9. Against the bottom 7 he’s Played 6, Won 0, Drawn 3, Lost 3. Points 3 PPG 0.5 Against the top 7 he’s Played 5, Won 2, Lost 3. Points 6. PPG 1.2 Against the middle 9 he’s Played 8, Won 4, Drawn 2, Lost 2. Points 14. PPG 1.75 Its very clear where our problems lie. Against the top 7 and middle 9 we’d be on course for approx 71 points a season (a playoff contender perhaps). Against the bottom 7 we’d be on course for 23 points in a season = relegation before Christmas!! Our remains fixtures are 4 vs the top 7, 3 vs the bottom 7 and 5 vs the middle 9. If we keep up the same PPG (I know, unscientific but hey ho), we’d finish on around 59 points. Funnily enough, when Nige left, we had 18 points from 14 games which would end us up on 59 points. So basically, at the moment there is no difference in the extrapolated final position/points. But as I say, it’s very clear where our problems lie.

Bernard yellow was correct. Bernard second yellow was correct. Should have been a penalty. He should have allowed the corner as it was he himself who wasted precious seconds on the previous corner by stopping play and speaking to the players. I think he did ok with everything else and didn’t get fooled by players falling too easily. Allowed the physical stuff too (we were just too weak). I thought he did ok. Aside from the penalty and the final (non) corner

In fairness, my recollection of that incident was that Watford did actually give it a bloody good go. I think it went on for quite a while, no old bill arrived for a long time, and there were bodies strewn everywhere. City certainly came out on top, but Watford were ‘game’ as they say, on that day.

Yep. I would guess that you and I are amongst a very small number of City fans who have seen us play Charlton at 4 different grounds. Ashton Gate, Selhurst Park, Upton Park & The Valley. I can’t remember there being very many of us at Selhurst and probably only 1,000 or so at Upton Park, so there won’t be many fans who can say they were at all 4 grounds. I always fancied playing Charlton in the playoff final as it would then be 5 different grounds, which I’m sure would be a very unique phenomenon.

There was a few Millwall in there too. I know - as I encountered some of them afterwards!!

Woo-hoo. Now we’re cooking If Twine is on the pitch and either TGH or anyone else goes anywhere near a free kick, I’m going to be immediately leaving the ground in absolute and painful disgust, and not returning until I receive a personal apology from the King.

Forgot about that one. Tomlin was March 2016 I think. So, with Brownhill’s we’re now at 1 in 8 years. Awesome

Come on now Silvio - you can’t use everything as a stick to beat Manning To the main point, our lack of goals from free kicks is something I’ve mentioned many times going back many seasons. This isn’t just a recent (Manning) phenomenon. Pretty sure our last one was Tomlin at Fulham!! But yes, Twine should definitely give us hope in this area.

Agreed. Total chancer. Not sure how he ever got employed at this level (twice!!)

He’s always been an ‘orrible git. The surprising this is how many people have been duped by him over the last few years. The mask is finally slipping and his true self is shining through. Horrible arrogant bloke

There was indeed a gesture from McCrorie to Mehmeti (I wouldn’t call it anywhere near a bollocking). I’ve just watched the game back again. It happens on the 20th minute and is about 1:30 prior to McCrorie having that shot that hit the side netting. Mehmeti was playing very narrow. This happened for the whole period he was on the right. I’m quite surprised that you say “possibly it was tactical”. It was very clearly tactical. He spent more time almost next to Wells than he was near the touchline. We very nearly had a couple of openings during the 5 mins leading up to McCories shot. Had Williams had his correct boots on yesterday we’d have had an opportunity for RM in loads of space on about 16 minutes and another when AM nearly got in behind on about 18 mins. There was also the Bell cross on about 15 mins where Mehmeti was on the penalty spot. And also on that McCrorie shot, Mehmeti had just made a run to the penalty spot and this was why RM had the time on the edge of the box to make that shot. It was very clearly tactical that AM was to play about 20 yards infield in the hope that this would allow RM space to drive forward - something which is clearly his strength. I can’t put any single ounce of blame on AM for playing narrow. The gesture from RM on 20 mins was more one of frustration as he wasn’t getting the space to maraud. Anis was 20 yards inside him the whole time. It was clearly a plan. Many people wouldn’t have noticed on about 13 minutes, Chair had rolled his man and was about to unleash a shot from the centre of the edge of the box and Anis had managed to get back and make what was probably a goal saving tackle. This was another advantage of his playing narrower, ie he was able to offer an extra defensive support in central areas. There were a lot of below par performances (well all of them) but Anis was probably the best player of ours (yes, a low bar, but even so). I was surprised he was subbed off actually and we were noticeably a lot worse after he went off.

“Hurry Up Harry” in reference to Cornick attempting to track back. “We’re going down the pub”. The Dolman Stand on 83 minutes. “Just my Imagination”. Jon & Brian thinking we have a top end squad. “Born to Run” Jason Knight “Comfortably Numb” Some of our fans at the thought of Manning Ball

Yep. Same Dave. I didn’t see wing backs at all. Back 4 all game. Although I do think the shape did sometimes look a little confusing as Roberts seems to have a tendency to come inside into midfield quite a lot, so he was often in a strange position for what was essentially a full back role.

You just beat me to it