Pointless England Friendlies

[CiderEagle]

Why on earth are England travelling 3000 miles to play the USA and Trinidad & Tobago when we could be playing some of the teams that have qualified for Euro 2008, giving us - and them - a much sterner test .... England v Germany or England v Holland would be worth watching ...

[Henry]

England are playing USA at home

[Geoff65]

Better get used to it - the way the premier league is going then qualifying for finals will be a thing of the past.

[Judge Roughneck]

Because without serious bribery of T&T there is no way on earth that England will get the CONCACAF vote for world cup hosting.

Not that going out there for one game will swing it, either.

[CiderEagle]

Because without serious bribery of T&T there is no way on earth that England will get the CONCACAF vote for world cup hosting.

Not that going out there for one game will swing it, either.

Guess you're right. So when exactly did HOSTING the world cup become more important to English football than playing meaningful games to

ensure we qualify for tournaments ? Unless they figure that is actually our best chance of qualifying. Football is going to end up like tennis in this country. Great at organising the events, rubbish at making an impact (the occasional Gazza or Henman cameo aside).

We need a limit on the number of non-English qualified players in each team, and we need it now.

[Geoff65]

A limit on foreign players is the incorrect and illegal way to go - I would prefer to see the number of over 22 year olds in each of the Premier League squads - A limit of say 18 would mean that the youth at each club will be giving a chance or moved on - if they get their chance and blow it then they are not left hanging around in their reserves for years and years. If they don't make it they are moved on to get real experience of real football playing in lower Premier League teams (i,e, not loaned to championship sides and still earning Premier League wages) or if not taken on by lower Premier League then with championship sides and really develop their potential and to prove themselves properly (Ameobi anyone?).

A lot of the wages would be a lot lower for these youngsters and a better rounded individuals who have points to prove are developed for the national game.

Edit* Ameobi has played 174 times in Premier League or in the Championship - For someone who was an England U21 player that's quite disgusting really - note 76 of those appearances are as a substitute - he burst on to the scene (if burst if the right adjective) in 2000 - that's 8 seasons and started just 98 times - he has scored 28 goals - if he had been booted out of Newcastle at the age of 22 then he would have have had plenty of time to fulfil or prove his potential (7 goals in 20 games for England U21) and another England potential would not have been stifled due to the stupid amounts of money in the Premier League that allows youngsters to rot in their reserves.

[Nibor]

A limit on foreign players is the incorrect and illegal way to go - I would prefer to see the number of over 22 year olds in each of the Premier League squads - A limit of say 18 would mean that the youth at each club will be giving a chance or moved on - if they get their chance and blow it then they are not left hanging around in their reserves for years and years. If they don't make it they are moved on to get real experience of real football playing in lower Premier League teams (i,e, not loaned to championship sides and still earning Premier League wages) or if not taken on by lower Premier League then with championship sides and really develop their potential and to prove themselves properly (Ameobi anyone?).

A lot of the wages would be a lot lower for these youngsters and a better rounded individuals who have points to prove are developed for the national game.

Edit* Ameobi has played 174 times in Premier League or in the Championship - For someone who was an England U21 player that's quite disgusting really - note 76 of those appearances are as a substitute - he burst on to the scene (if burst if the right adjective) in 2000 - that's 8 seasons and started just 98 times - he has scored 28 goals - if he had been booted out of Newcastle at the age of 22 then he would have have had plenty of time to fulfil or prove his potential (7 goals in 20 games for England U21) and another England potential would not have been stifled due to the stupid amounts of money in the Premier League that allows youngsters to rot in their reserves.

I agree with this.

At the moment the big clubs poach talent at 14-16 from all over Europe, they have literally hundreds of players from 16-21 and as a result most of them end up on the footballing scrap heap at a very early age and having to rebuild careers often from the non-league up. Surely it would be better for all clubs if there was a cap on the number of young players they could sign, the best would still end up at the top clubs perhaps but they would get more individual coaching and the very good ones would end up at other league clubs with more chance of actually getting first team football and becoming better players.

It would also be nice to see limits on where young players can be signed from geographically and a much stronger contract for young players that protects the rights of the clubs that develop them better.

[CiderEagle]

A limit on foreign players is the incorrect and illegal way to go - I would prefer to see the number of over 22 year olds in each of the Premier League squads - A limit of say 18 would mean that the youth at each club will be giving a chance or moved on - if they get their chance and blow it then they are not left hanging around in their reserves for years and years. If they don't make it they are moved on to get real experience of real football playing in lower Premier League teams (i,e, not loaned to championship sides and still earning Premier League wages) or if not taken on by lower Premier League then with championship sides and really develop their potential and to prove themselves properly (Ameobi anyone?).

A lot of the wages would be a lot lower for these youngsters and a better rounded individuals who have points to prove are developed for the national game.

Edit* Ameobi has played 174 times in Premier League or in the Championship - For someone who was an England U21 player that's quite disgusting really - note 76 of those appearances are as a substitute - he burst on to the scene (if burst if the right adjective) in 2000 - that's 8 seasons and started just 98 times - he has scored 28 goals - if he had been booted out of Newcastle at the age of 22 then he would have have had plenty of time to fulfil or prove his potential (7 goals in 20 games for England U21) and another England potential would not have been stifled due to the stupid amounts of money in the Premier League that allows youngsters to rot in their reserves.

I accept that its probably illegal and would have to be subject to some sort of gentlemen's agreement but I don't see that anything you've said indicates that your way would work ? Surely we'd STILL have loads of foreign players in the English league ?

I do like your idea though, I think it would help teh development of players in general, but it wouldn't just be English players who would benefit.

[Geoff65]

Current situation is this:

Premier League receives £1.8b from Sky TV - other countries in europe get a lot less than this - we saw that for Fulham for staying up it's worth £30m - now consider this £30m if you stay in the Premier League year after year is akin to what clubs in the Spanish league French German and Italian league get for finishing in the top 4 of their leagues - granted big big clubs like Barca, Milan, Madrid, Bayern get a lot more than the £30m as they regularly get through to the knock out stages of the Champions League and have huge followings but consider a club like Lyon in France - they have been champions 7 years on the trot or Olympiakos who have won their 11th championship in the last 12 years - these clubs will be operating on a budget around £30m or less - in terms of their own league they become absolutely the best team and dominate year after year. The point I'm making here is that clubs like Everton, Villa etc... etc.... can all compete financially with all bar teh most elite clubs in europe.

A few years ago Mr Wenger understood the implications of the financial plan and cunningly he set a structure that basically got the best teenagers in europe and brought them to Arsenal - most teenagers are unable to enter into a contract until they are 16 years of age - take Giuseppe Rossi - was at Parma until the age of 17 bought for less than £500k and sold at the start of this season for 10m euros (£6.6m) - he played in the Premier League for a total of 5 appearances and Man Utd make a £6m profit (and a buy back clause).

The English FA states that youngsters can only be signed as a schoolboy to a club if they are in commuting distance of the club - hence the influx of europes top teenagers moving to the manchester and london areas - all of this is totally wrong - I know I'm not answering your question yet but I will get there.

Where big clubs and the smaller comparative clubs like Newcastle Everton Villa etc... (but still financially capable of competing with all but the elite teams of europe) can invest so little of their total budget in luring the cream of europe's youngsters to their youth set ups and if they get one or two players in 5 years to come through then the cost have been justified - but for the individual youngsters only the cream of the crop ultimately get to play regularly and get experience. When they become 24 they become free agents ala Bosman and can leave for nothing - but by that time it's too late - the damage has been done.

By imposing a maximum of 18 over 22 year olds in a Premier League league squad would alter the club's priorities when it comes to youngsters - knowing that they can only have 18 players over the age of 22 would mean that they would have to develop them fully - most Premier League clubs have circa 35 squad players means that there are 17 players under the age of 22 - take someone like Newcastle - they have 5 players who are under 22 - most of their squad are not from the British Isles - now if they had to keep only 18 over 22 year olds then they would have to get rid of somewhere in the region of 13 players - only the very best over 22 year olds would be keep their places and a lot of their average squad non British Isles players would have to be replaced from either the hot 18 - 20 year olds playing in the championship or from their own internal youth set up.

Yes a lot of these youth players will not be English but I would hazzard a guess that a larger proprotion of English players, who are playing in youth set ups would get a chance to become a Premier League player than currently are being brought through and those who become 22 and not deemed worthy will have to double their efforts at other clubs.

You cant discriminate against european nationals within the youth set up but I think human nature will mean that only the most determined of non UK players will move to a youth set up in the UK.

Over all I think the implementing of this type of set up would give our youngsters greater chances of proving themselves rather than what I suspect will happen and that is the number of foreigners will increase further this summer when the other countries (non elite clubs) cant hold on to their quality players ala Afonso Alves move to Boro from Heerenveen who couldnt refuse the £12m that Boro could quite comfortably afford.