andy g Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Ok, he's almost certainly on his way to Palace by the sound of things. But suppose Palace change their mind now and Nick Carle gets to stay at City ? I'd love to see him stay here, he showed in the final few games of last season what a great player he could become for this club. But, will Gavin Williams take his place ? and where will he be mentally having gone through this long, drawn out transfer-sage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westonred Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Williams is not a direct replacement for Carle so if he stays (which is unlikely) they can both play in the same team.. GJ says that Williams can play wide right, wide left, in the centre, in the hole behind two strikers or playing just behind 1 striker so he's a good addition to the squad and could play alongside any of our current players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 If he stays then no need to re-allocate the no10 shirt at the very least!! Think he's off, judging by comments emanating from London media etc,but if he stays we'll get behind him again, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Gary's certainly giving himself plenty of options in midfield. Possibly, though I hope it's not "Plan A", with the intention of playing 4-5-1 with Dele up front on his own. Reading his interview it sounds more like the signing of Williams was because he was simply too good a player not to sign at that price, rather than because he had a specific need for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Williams, Artus, Noble, Elliot, Skuse and LJ, thats enough for center midfield in quantity. Quality being another matter. I don't subscribe to players being able to play successfully in lots of positions. Each and every player has a preferred position, a position they like and play better at. Carle only looked the goods when he played center midfield. Williams likewise will have a position he prefers and thats where we need to be playing him. As for Carle staying, that would be inconvenient at this time, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Williams, Artus, Noble, Elliot, Skuse and LJ, thats enough for center midfield in quantity. Quality being another matter. I don't subscribe to players being able to play successfully in lots of positions. Each and every player has a preferred position, a position they like and play better at. Carle only looked the goods when he played center midfield. Williams likewise will have a position he prefers and thats where we need to be playing him. As for Carle staying, that would be inconvenient at this time, to say the least. Carle is gone, that is a certainty. I am led to believe that we have recieved well over double our initial outlay, which is tremendous business for a very average player. Of those players you mention above, only Williams, Elliot and Johnson are viable options for a successful championship team. Artus is yet another example of wasted english talent, not the right desire and mentality to succeed at a high level. Skuse, whilst being a nice guy and very tidy, isn't quite what we're looking for. Not as tough and combative as elliott, and not as creative as johnson. Noble hasn't played in centre midfield for City in two years (in the midfield two), so i wish people would stop suggesting he does!! He plays behind the striker, or drifting in from the right. In my opinion, strikers and a right full back would be our most needed area of improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 IF Carle stays then all williams has done is filled a void left by alex russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fka dagest Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 I can't help but think that people who describe Carle as being 'average' etc are simply putting on a brave face. No offence intended! I thought he was excellent and I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing in the Prem within two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Carle is gone, that is a certainty. I am led to believe that we have recieved well over double our initial outlay, which is tremendous business for a very average player. To say Carle is a very average player is completely incorrect. He was immense toards the end of last season. Ran the show at Sheff U and Palarse away leg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Carle is gone, that is a certainty. I am led to believe that we have recieved well over double our initial outlay, which is tremendous business for a very average player. This actually did make me laugh out loud Brightened up my day anyway...........Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 I can't help but think that people who describe Carle as being 'average' etc are simply putting on a brave face. No offence intended! I thought he was excellent and I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing in the Prem within two seasons. Quite so Dagest and the poster up the page says that Carle is "very average". That would make both GJ and Warnoke guilty of signing a "very average" player ? No offence intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 To say Carle is a very average player is completely incorrect. He was immense toards the end of last season. Ran the show at Sheff U and Palarse away leg I can understand why people defend Carle, he showed some nice touches, had some ability and a tan to die for. But he isn't this world beater that people are fooled into believing. Yes Carle played well in the 2-1 defeat to Sheff U, and Palace away was his best game in a city shirt, he was magnificent. You know what's coming next....but he was disappointing in the vast majority of his other games for the club. Take the play off away leg out of the conundrum and what have you got? No goals, no assists, key penalty given away, absent from the final, woeful when replacing johnson at home to watford, lot's of sideways passing and no other moments to talk about. 2 good games out of 15? I remember the uproar when Coterill left, this is much the same. Over a million quid for 'potential', take the money and run. PS, look through the rest of my posts right back through the season, my message is nothing but consistent!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 I imagine there will be one or two other interested clubs if the Palace deal falls through. Maybe City wouldn't get quite so much money from a second bidder, but GJ has made it plain that NC is surplus to his plans so either way it's unikely Carle will feature on the squad photo for the coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 I can understand why people defend Carle, he showed some nice touches, had some ability and a tan to die for. But he isn't this world beater that people are fooled into believing. Yes Carle played well in the 2-1 defeat to Sheff U, and Palace away was his best game in a city shirt, he was magnificent. You know what's coming next....but he was disappointing in the vast majority of his other games for the club. Take the play off away leg out of the conundrum and what have you got? No goals, no assists, key penalty given away, absent from the final, woeful when replacing johnson at home to watford, lot's of sideways passing and no other moments to talk about. 2 good games out of 15? I remember the uproar when Coterill left, this is much the same. Over a million quid for 'potential', take the money and run. PS, look through the rest of my posts right back through the season, my message is nothing but consistent!! I don't wish to be direspectfull but I can't agree. Nick Carle played 17 games....that's right just 17 games, he had injuries in that time and had not played regularly in Turkey prior to his arrival. Plus the fact he had arrived in a foreign country. Believe me he did very well in those circumstances and contibuted a hell of a lot, so much so that you and I had a day out at Wembley. City were in free fall after a very succesful season and it was by luck, desperation or astute managment that he was brought on at half time at Stoke and put in as many have said was surburb performance at Sheff United and was part of a team that grew in confidence and nearly achieved a remarkable back to back promotion. Nick's performance at Selhurst park was outstanding and I cannot think of to many better in recent years. If City think the offer is to good to turn down or what ever other reason that we are not privy to behind the scences, is reason enough to sell the player then fair enough but to dismiss the player is ridiculious as he would have contributed significantly next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashbrisc11 Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 apparently according to my sources we were going to sign williams in january and also that ambrose might be carlse replacement and johnson would have signed williams anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 I can understand why people defend Carle, he showed some nice touches, had some ability and a tan to die for. But he isn't this world beater that people are fooled into believing. Yes Carle played well in the 2-1 defeat to Sheff U, and Palace away was his best game in a city shirt, he was magnificent. You know what's coming next....but he was disappointing in the vast majority of his other games for the club. Take the play off away leg out of the conundrum and what have you got? No goals, no assists, key penalty given away, absent from the final, woeful when replacing johnson at home to watford, lot's of sideways passing and no other moments to talk about. 2 good games out of 15? I remember the uproar when Coterill left, this is much the same. Over a million quid for 'potential', take the money and run. PS, look through the rest of my posts right back through the season, my message is nothing but consistent!! Really, you are joking right? We all no he isnt a world beater, nobody has said he is but to describe as average is quite frankly baffling. I have seen many many average players in my time watching City and he definately does not fall into the category of average. You fail to acknowledge or take into consideration any of the circumstances eg the fact that half of the games he did play for us was out of position anyway, the fact that he was new to the english game, injuries, didnt play the first half of the season etc etc. When he got a run in central midfield towards the end of the season he looked excellent and there was no reason to believe he couldnt continue in that vain this season....... And then you state he was absent from the final?? Really?? Must have watched a different game than me, I was very surprised when he was substituted. Most of the good things we done that day went through him and many sat around me felt the same. I'm not saying that it's bad business, If we recieve more than double what we paid for him and he is replaced then its probably a good deal. I just hope it doesnt come back to bite us in the arse!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Really, you are joking right? We all no he isnt a world beater, nobody has said he is but to describe as average is quite frankly baffling. I have seen many many average players in my time watching City and he definately does not fall into the category of average. You fail to acknowledge or take into consideration any of the circumstances eg the fact that half of the games he did play for us was out of position anyway, the fact that he was new to the english game, injuries, didnt play the first half of the season etc etc. When he got a run in central midfield towards the end of the season he looked excellent and there was no reason to believe he couldnt continue in that vain this season....... And then you state he was absent from the final?? Really?? Must have watched a different game than me, I was very surprised when he was substituted. Most of the good things we done that day went through him and many sat around me felt the same. I'm not saying that it's bad business, If we recieve more than double what we paid for him and he is replaced then its probably a good deal. I just hope it doesnt come back to bite us in the arse!! Hallaluya!!! Could not agree more with all of that post. I'm all for backing the club to the hilt but common sence must previal...as you say the deal may be right for City etc etc but just to imply that the player is "average" because he is leaving is nonsence. I am dissapointed by this move but if it is the best interests of all concerned then fair enough (but I'm not sure of that), time will tell of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Alright, alright, maybe saying he is 'average' is harsh, probably incorrect too. I retract that comment. He is a good talent and he has great potential, i haven't denied that at all. He could be potentially a very good player. Or, he could potentially be another in the long list of good footballers who don't quite make it. Time will tell. What we do know is that he wasn't always impressive, and whilst he made a key contribution at palace away, he didn't really contribute much in a City shirt. Don't forget, that another referee could have easily had Carle off for a two footed challenge at Palace... I don't want to get in arguements with people, and i don't disagree with those of you defending Carle as you do have valid reasoning, but my point is we're doubling our money on someone who hasn't proven he can do it in this league. I would definitely accept the bid if i were GJ / SL. If you also throw into the mix that his fitness has been called into question at times and he hasn't really intergrated in with the team as yet, then the reported £1.2m is a steal. From what i've seen / heard of Williams he seems like a good squad player, although not necessatrily a replacement. Would you rather have Carle? Or Williams plus £1.1million? It's a game of opinions, i'd take the latter. Especially if that increases our striker budget from £1.5m to £2.6m. I'm sure all of you were crying out for the '20 goals a season' man, well maybe now we can actually go out and get him. Construtive critism only please, don't kill me for having an opinion different to the majority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Alright, alright, maybe saying he is 'average' is harsh, probably incorrect too. I retract that comment. He is a good talent and he has great potential, i haven't denied that at all. He could be potentially a very good player. Or, he could potentially be another in the long list of good footballers who don't quite make it. Time will tell. What we do know is that he wasn't always impressive, and whilst he made a key contribution at palace away, he didn't really contribute much in a City shirt. Don't forget, that another referee could have easily had Carle off for a two footed challenge at Palace... I don't want to get in arguements with people, and i don't disagree with those of you defending Carle as you do have valid reasoning, but my point is we're doubling our money on someone who hasn't proven he can do it in this league. I would definitely accept the bid if i were GJ / SL. If you also throw into the mix that his fitness has been called into question at times and he hasn't really intergrated in with the team as yet, then the reported £1.2m is a steal. From what i've seen / heard of Williams he seems like a good squad player, although not necessatrily a replacement. Would you rather have Carle? Or Williams plus £1.1million? It's a game of opinions, i'd take the latter. Especially if that increases our striker budget from £1.5m to £2.6m. I'm sure all of you were crying out for the '20 goals a season' man, well maybe now we can actually go out and get him. Construtive critism only please, don't kill me for having an opinion different to the majority! I don't post on here to have a pop at someone who has a different point of view from me as that's fair enough and what the forum is about. I simply took issue with the "average" comment which I thought was unfounded. With regard your what I would rather have scenario, in all honesty I would rather have Carle. I think he was beginning to settle in and would in all likelyhood get better (my opinion). I don't believe for one moment that City could not have afforded the £300K for Williams without the sale of Carle. The club will have to spend a substantial amount anyway and I think that is a collective opinion. A striker is part of that investment. As I have posted if the club believe the offer was to good to turn down then fair enough, but what I would add is that £500K for a talented midfielder, on the fringes of his national team was a good deal for City in January and I think some more rabbits will have to brought out of the hat to better it. Sure GJ has done it before, but it is not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallpinesred Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Until it becomes official no-one knows why Carle is going.We can speculate all we want but the truth is only GJ knows the real reasons.Lets just wait and see and when we know the true story perhaps all these pre season rumours will have answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikle291 Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 GJ just isnt sure about carle and palace have offered a good deal but have had two bids accepted (carle and yeates) but can only sign one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 79 Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 I can understand why people defend Carle, he showed some nice touches, had some ability and a tan to die for. But he isn't this world beater that people are fooled into believing. Yes Carle played well in the 2-1 defeat to Sheff U, and Palace away was his best game in a city shirt, he was magnificent. You know what's coming next....but he was disappointing in the vast majority of his other games for the club. Take the play off away leg out of the conundrum and what have you got? No goals, no assists, key penalty given away, absent from the final, woeful when replacing johnson at home to watford, lot's of sideways passing and no other moments to talk about. 2 good games out of 15? I remember the uproar when Coterill left, this is much the same. Over a million quid for 'potential', take the money and run. PS, look through the rest of my posts right back through the season, my message is nothing but consistent!! I totally agree with your comments mate If it ends up like the cotterill situation we will be laughing!!! Johnson is no fool. Bottom of league 1 December 05. - top of championship December 07!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Of those players you mention above, only Williams, Elliot and Johnson are viable options for a successful championship team. Artus is yet another example of wasted english talent, not the right desire and mentality to succeed at a high level. Skuse, whilst being a nice guy and very tidy, isn't quite what we're looking for. Not as tough and combative as elliott, and not as creative as johnson. Noble hasn't played in centre midfield for City in two years (in the midfield two), so i wish people would stop suggesting he does!! He plays behind the striker, or drifting in from the right. Can you explain the conclusions you have reached for each of the midfield players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolCity4Life84 Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 If he stay. I reckon things will be very difficult for him in terms of convincing his teammates and the fans that he`s truly happy at the club. A couple of the fans would give him a hard time only if he dosen`t pick up from where he left off last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Can you explain the conclusions you have reached for each of the midfield players. Er...pretty sure i did list the reasons! :noexpression: I've watched all but 9 games home and away over last two seasons and those are my conclusions so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Er...pretty sure i did list the reasons! :noexpression: I've watched all but 9 games home and away over last two seasons and those are my conclusions so far. You gave your conclusions but did not explain how you arrived at them. For example, how did you arrive at your conclusion on Frankie Artus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Lad Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Evening Post reporting this morning that the Carle deal for Palace was completed over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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