City Chuds Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 One thing I will say early on in this is I don't have any insiders at the gate and I don't claim that anything I'm about to mention is 100% true its rumours I heard and I would love your opinions. Sat there on the bus on the way to Wembley with a can of Cider in my hand at 10 in the morning I overheard a young lady talking about a friend of hers who may have had some links with the youth teams. She was saying about how GJ had no interest in the youth players coming through and that he is quite unpopular within the youth ranks. It made me think I hadnt seen many youngsters coming through since GJ took over and baring in mind ive heard great things about such players as Plummer and Ribiero I was a bit suprised. And before anyone replies that I'm complaining about one of the best managers we have had since ive supported the club I'm not. Maybe youth players arent the way to run a football club. Your thoughts please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 One thing I will say early on in this is I don't have any insiders at the gate and I don't claim that anything I'm about to mention is 100% true its rumours I heard and I would love your opinions. Sat there on the bus on the way to Wembley with a can of Cider in my hand at 10 in the morning I overheard a young lady talking about a friend of hers who may have had some links with the youth teams. She was saying about how GJ had no interest in the youth players coming through and that he is quite unpopular within the youth ranks. It made me think I hadnt seen many youngsters coming through since GJ took over and baring in mind ive heard great things about such players as Plummer and Ribiero I was a bit suprised. And before anyone replies that I'm complaining about one of the best managers we have had since ive supported the club I'm not. Maybe youth players arent the way to run a football club. Your thoughts please To be far he hasnt give plummer much of chance or walker but i don't think they are phyisaclly raedy to make the step up. I know jordan walker quite well and last time i spoke to him he was quite happy to wait for his chance, the main problem is i cant think of a youngster that is as good or better than waht we have already got. Unlike a few years back when lita was coming through he was actually as good if not better than the strikers at the time. In my opinion walker is not yet as goood as the player in his poistion (mccalister) and plummer is not yet ready phyiscally to play in the champiosnhip. However i think we could be seeing a lot more of plummer this season and i can see walker being put on loan somewere which will be good for him to get some league experience under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Chuds Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 To be far he hasnt give plummer much of chance or walker but i don't think they are phyisaclly raedy to make the step up. I know jordan walker quite well and last time i spoke to him he was quite happy to wait for his chance, the main problem is i cant think of a youngster that is as good or better than waht we have already got. Unlike a few years back when lita was coming through he was actually as good if not better than the strikers at the time. In my opinion walker is not yet as goood as the player in his poistion (mccalister) and plummer is not yet ready phyiscally to play in the champiosnhip. However i think we could be seeing a lot more of plummer this season and i can see walker being put on loan somewere which will be good for him to get some league experience under his belt. Under other managers would we expected to have seen them appear on the bench a few more times. don't get me wrong I know very little about these players other than the small amount of hype ive heard so i don't know how good they are. But then Marvin Brown was going to be the next England Striker according to the hype a few years back and that obviously wasnt quite true. Is it because we have a larger squad these days than in the past that keep these youngsters off the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john shaws hair Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Under other managers would we expected to have seen them appear on the bench a few more times. don't get me wrong I know very little about these players other than the small amount of hype ive heard so i don't know how good they are. But then Marvin Brown was going to be the next England Striker according to the hype a few years back and that obviously wasnt quite true. Is it because we have a larger squad these days than in the past that keep these youngsters off the bench. yea your going in the right direction a think a few would definately made the bench or had some cameo appearances but as it is at the minute they have no chance which i think is having a knock on effect on the younger players if you no jordan no doubt hes told you what goes on there ithink are academy has come on leaps and bounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Under other managers would we expected to have seen them appear on the bench a few more times. don't get me wrong I know very little about these players other than the small amount of hype ive heard so i don't know how good they are. But then Marvin Brown was going to be the next England Striker according to the hype a few years back and that obviously wasnt quite true. Is it because we have a larger squad these days than in the past that keep these youngsters off the bench. No i don't think we have a bigger sqaud i just think we have a better squad, for a youngster to come through the ranks like ive said they have to be at least as good as the players in their positions and in my view i cant think of a youngster that is better than what we have. Unless they really impress GJ in pre saeson then i can just see a lot of them being farmed out on loan, but the main thing is they are all still young and the likes of walker and plummer have signed new deals so they must feature in GJ plans somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Chuds Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 No i don't think we have a bigger sqaud i just think we have a better squad, for a youngster to come through the ranks like ive said they have to be at least as good as the players in their positions and in my view i cant think of a youngster that is better than what we have. Unless they really impress GJ in pre saeson then i can just see a lot of them being farmed out on loan, but the main thing is they are all still young and the likes of walker and plummer have signed new deals so they must feature in GJ plans somehow. If you know Jordan and you think he is going out on loan tell him Cheltenham is nice at this time of year!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 It's quite (I emphasise 'quite') interesting to see how many match minutes the youngsters are getting in preseason, which is why I've done this table: Match Minutes In Preseason James Wilson is currently the outfield player who has played the most minutes thus far in preseason. Make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21. Marcham Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 To be far he hasnt give plummer much of chance or walker but i don't think they are phyisaclly raedy to make the step up. I know jordan walker quite well and last time i spoke to him he was quite happy to wait for his chance, the main problem is i cant think of a youngster that is as good or better than waht we have already got. Unlike a few years back when lita was coming through he was actually as good if not better than the strikers at the time. In my opinion walker is not yet as goood as the player in his poistion (mccalister) and plummer is not yet ready phyiscally to play in the champiosnhip. However i think we could be seeing a lot more of plummer this season and i can see walker being put on loan somewere which will be good for him to get some league experience under his belt. Likewise, i chat to Plummer abit, and he's said he is willing to wait for his chance. I feel that if we are looking to the future, this is the season that the youngsters need to be given their chance. Look at Palace last season, they were in midtable, Warnock showed some faith in Victor Moses, for example, Moses kept his place in the team and come the end of the season was a regular starter. Tristan And Moses play in the same England youth team, so surely seeing as Moses got his chance last season, Plummer should get his soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Chuds Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 No i don't think we have a bigger sqaud i just think we have a better squad, for a youngster to come through the ranks like ive said they have to be at least as good as the players in their positions and in my view i cant think of a youngster that is better than what we have. Unless they really impress GJ in pre saeson then i can just see a lot of them being farmed out on loan, but the main thing is they are all still young and the likes of walker and plummer have signed new deals so they must feature in GJ plans somehow. The difficulty is we have gone from a club that was struggling in league one when GJ took over to being one win from the Prem. Asking players to improve as they get older is one thing but then asking them to compete with players which are no doubt better will make it more difficult for them to get first team chances. Lets remember our star signing for Tinns before he got the sack was one Marcus Stewart who has just signed for Exeter. Competing against him as apose to Meteb for example is two different worlds. Lets hope we start to see these players I love to see players like Meteb signed but to have an academy player make it big is that little bit better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internetjef Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 are any of them really setting the world on fire in the reserves? ive heard many people cast serious doubts about even the more prominent youngsters we have being able to handle the championship. i think the only reason johnson hasnt used them is they currently arent good enough. I know people will argue that they need opportunities to develop, but we can loan them out for that. Also it looks like johnson has given them all a fair crack in preseason, and again hasnt been overly impressed. So maybe the question is not whether Johnson is snubbing them? its more whether we have any exceptional talent in the academy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john shaws hair Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Likewise, i chat to Plummer abit, and he's said he is willing to wait for his chance. I feel that if we are looking to the future, this is the season that the youngsters need to be given their chance. Look at Palace last season, they were in midtable, Warnock showed some faith in Victor Moses, for example, Moses kept his place in the team and come the end of the season was a regular starter. Tristan And Moses play in the same England youth team, so surely seeing as Moses got his chance last season, Plummer should get his soon. i don't think plummer is involed in the england setup any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Chuds Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 It's quite (I emphasise 'quite') interesting to see how many match minutes the youngsters are getting in preseason, which is why I've done this table: Match Minutes In Preseason James Wilson is currently the outfield player who has played the most minutes thus far in preseason. Make of that what you will. What do we know of Wilson (I personally know nothing) Is he a player who can offer an improvemment in one of our weaker areas?? Also interesting to see Jennison getting a chance, he scored as well didnt he?? GJ seeing if his loan periods have paid off?? He always looked like he could be a great player if he got stronger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internetjef Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Likewise, i chat to Plummer abit, and he's said he is willing to wait for his chance. I feel that if we are looking to the future, this is the season that the youngsters need to be given their chance. Look at Palace last season, they were in midtable, Warnock showed some faith in Victor Moses, for example, Moses kept his place in the team and come the end of the season was a regular starter. Tristan And Moses play in the same England youth team, so surely seeing as Moses got his chance last season, Plummer should get his soon. Isnt moses biuilt like a brick sh*thouse though. i remember him being about 6'2'' and certainly looking like he could really hold his own. most of plummers biggest fans on here still say he isnt strong enough for championships. Do you think we should try and get him out on a season long loan, or keep him at city concentrating on his physical strength he certainly seems to be one of our leading prospects and talents so i hope we nurture him correctly. P.S don't mean to sound pessimistic about the academy, theres nothing i like to see more than home grown heroes in the first team, I'm just not sure its quite his time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 It's quite (I emphasise 'quite') interesting to see how many match minutes the youngsters are getting in preseason, which is why I've done this table: Match Minutes In Preseason James Wilson is currently the outfield player who has played the most minutes thus far in preseason. Make of that what you will. I think..those are the players he's looked at to step up by giving them game time early, and consequently those are the players he's dubbed not championship players so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray White Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Given GJs background having managed the academy at Watford I think he is more than likely interested in giving young players a chance however he either hasn't had the opportunity because we didn't have many injuries last season or he doesn't think the younger players are up to it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 It's quite (I emphasise 'quite') interesting to see how many match minutes the youngsters are getting in preseason, which is why I've done this table: Match Minutes In Preseason James Wilson is currently the outfield player who has played the most minutes thus far in preseason. Make of that what you will. Some players in the shop window? OPPOSITION: FGR SCO Rush TOTAL Chris Weale 90 90 45 225 James Wilson 45 73 80 198 Louis Carey 45 62 69 176 Jennison Myrie-Will 66 45 45 156 Cole. Skuse 45 45 66 156 Dele Adebola 45 45 45 135 Frankie Artus 45 45 45 135 Kevin Betsy 45 45 45 135 Steve Brooker 45 45 45 135 Lee Johnson 45 45 45 135 Michael McIndoe 45 45 45 135 Bradley Orr 45 45 45 135 Ivan Sproule 45 45 45 135 Lee Trundle 45 45 45 135 Jamie McAllister 0 45 69 114 Liam Fontaine 45 45 10 100 Jamie McCombe 45 45 0 90 Scott Murray 0 45 45 90 David Noble 0 45 45 90 Christian Ribeiro 45 45 0 90 Brian Wilson 45 0 45 90 Michael Barnes 69 0 0 69 Adriano Basso 0 0 45 45 Tristan Plummer 45 0 0 45 Marvin Elliott 0 0 0 0 Stephen Henderson 0 0 0 0 Emad Meteb 0 0 0 0 Jordan Walker 0 0 0 0 Gavin Williams 0 0 0 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john shaws hair Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Given GJs background having managed the academy at Watford I think he is more than likely interested in giving young players a chance however he either hasn't had the opportunity because we didn't have many injuries last season or he doesn't think the younger players are up to it yet. i think you will find the difference there was johnson was in charge of the academy setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanC Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Under other managers would we expected to have seen them appear on the bench a few more times. don't get me wrong I know very little about these players other than the small amount of hype ive heard so i don't know how good they are. But then Marvin Brown was going to be the next England Striker according to the hype a few years back and that obviously wasnt quite true. Is it because we have a larger squad these days than in the past that keep these youngsters off the bench.If they were on the bench could they come and and help turn a defeat into at least a draw? Is Plummer better than Murray? Murray failed to make the bench on several occasions last season so if even he can't make the bench then why should players like Plummer who may not be as good? It's OK saying bring them on when the game is won but you don't know before the game if your going to win or not do you, We need players on the bench that can change a game. I have no problem with the youth and would love to have it like it was when we had the likes of Hills, Coles etc in the side but for them to get in the side they have to be better than what we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Chuds Posted July 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 If they were on the bench could they come and and help turn a defeat into at least a draw? Is Plummer better than Murray? Murray failed to make the bench on several occasions last season so if even he can't make the bench then why should players like Plummer who may not be as good? It's OK saying bring them on when the game is won but you don't know before the game if your going to win or not do you, We need players on the bench that can change a game. I have no problem with the youth and would love to have it like it was when we had the likes of Hills, Coles etc in the side but for them to get in the side they have to be better than what we already have. I completely agree with you they do have to come and make a difference. Part of me actually feels that past managers may have relied far to much on youth players that were not of a high enough standard where as we all know football is a not a team game its a squad game these days. But then we werent in the championship then. I'm not concerned by these players not coming through so much as Johnson not paying enough attention to it as per my original thread. The squad has come on quite a way in the last couple of years I guess the youth team and academy need to catch up. don't get me wrong I think we have a good youth set up but we cant expect everything to improve overnight these things happen gradually. One good thing about our league status is we should attract the better youth players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ookman Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 We need to keep our average first team age to at least 35! you'll never win anything with kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Gary Johnson would do whatever was necessary to win games. If that meant playing a rookie, that's what he'd do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 We need to keep our average first team age to at least 35! you'll never win anything with kids That's simply not true. I used to play for Charfield U14s and we won the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ookman Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 That's simply not true. I used to play for Charfield U14s and we won the league. I'm sure their average age was 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 I'm sure their average age was 23 That was never proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ookman Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 That was never proved. 5 of them had beards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eamer Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 I'd love to see some of the younger players given a chance in the first team and from what I've seen of a few of them, a run out in some cup games or some three month loan spells to League One would give them just enough to start to compete with the regulars. Artus really stands out and the games I've seen him in has got some more experienced players out of jail on more than one occasion. He would benefit hugely from a loan to Cheltenham or Yeovil, same with Ribeiro and James Wilson who have both looked good at the back. Tristan Plummer is one that has disappointed me on the occasions I've seen him for the Reserves and maybe a loan to Forest Green first of all with him would be good to see his actual potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinmad Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Some players in the shop window? OPPOSITION: FGR SCO Rush TOTAL Chris Weale 90 90 45 225 James Wilson 45 73 80 198 Louis Carey 45 62 69 176 Jennison Myrie-Will 66 45 45 156 Cole. Skuse 45 45 66 156 Dele Adebola 45 45 45 135 Frankie Artus 45 45 45 135 Kevin Betsy 45 45 45 135 Steve Brooker 45 45 45 135 Lee Johnson 45 45 45 135 Michael McIndoe 45 45 45 135 Bradley Orr 45 45 45 135 Ivan Sproule 45 45 45 135 Lee Trundle 45 45 45 135 Jamie McAllister 0 45 69 114 Liam Fontaine 45 45 10 100 Jamie McCombe 45 45 0 90 Scott Murray 0 45 45 90 David Noble 0 45 45 90 Christian Ribeiro 45 45 0 90 Brian Wilson 45 0 45 90 Michael Barnes 69 0 0 69 Adriano Basso 0 0 45 45 Tristan Plummer 45 0 0 45 Marvin Elliott 0 0 0 0 Stephen Henderson 0 0 0 0 Emad Meteb 0 0 0 0 Jordan Walker 0 0 0 0 Gavin Williams 0 0 0 0 I think you could be right a football agent friend of mine tells me Wilson J is allowed to leave the club if can get a move so it appears he could be surplus to requirments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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