Goal Scorers Lack Of Goal Scoring.....constant Problem,

[bh_red]

it amazes me how naive some people are and are getting onto Maynard's back, in the same way they have done in previous seasons at Trundle and Jevons.

the simple fact is we are not playing to his strengths, you just need to look at the forwards we have signed in recent seasons, Jevons, Trundle and now Maynard, all forwards signed due to their goal scoring records at previous clubs, but for NONE of them it's worked out well at City to date and they become scapegoats with "some" fans.

It's a simple thing for all of them, they haven't been receiving decent service and none of the have reproduced their form to date at City, it seems a constant problem since Gary Johnson has been here, that he can't get goal scorers scoring goals and for me's it's mainly due to the poor service too them, what's the point in constantly signing goal poachers such as these 3 when you don't play to any of their strengths and have given none of them any quality constant service.

We have been succesful since GJ has been here, however the main constant negative has been lack of service to forwards due to no supply from midfield, until that's resolved we are going to constantly have people moaning about "so and so" forward not delivering and not being good enough, despite the fact that if you don't get the ball in the right position, you won't score goals.

[rockin-robin]

it amazes me how naive some people are and are getting onto Maynard's back, in the same way they have done in previous seasons at Trundle and Jevons.

the simple fact is we are not playing to his strengths, you just need to look at the forwards we have signed in recent seasons, Jevons, Trundle and now Maynard, all forwards signed due to their goal scoring records at previous clubs, but for NONE of them it's worked out well at City to date and they become scapegoats with the "some" fans.

It's a simple thing for all of them, they haven't been receiving decent service and none of the have reproduced their form to date at City, it seems a constant problem since Gary Johnson has been that he can't get goal scorers scoring goals and for me's it's mainly due to the poor service too them, what's the point in constantly signing goal poachers such as these 3 when you don't play to any of their strengths and have given none of them any quality constant service.

We have been succesful since GJ has been here, however the main constant negative has been lack of service to forwards due to no supply from midfield, until that's resolved we are going to constantly have people moaning about "so and so" forward not delivering and not being good enough, despite the fact that if you don't get the ball in the right position, you won't score goals.

Good post.

But what do the teams that Jevons, Trundle and Maynard have played in, all have in common?

[sephjnr]

We have five very good strikers, but no partnerships. It's that simple.

Ad-Ebola had plenty of service last night, he squandered one such pass by going for a double-covered Maynard when Sproule was free to his right; Maynard was never free with the ball at all as he was habitually marked out of reputation. Del's faults is that while he's a good trick-and-shoot player his passing was awful and he's still being played as the lump-up-front. Another fault is that the defences (Brum's in particular) are usually good at shutting the front line down while both strikers NEED to work together to punch the holes in; Del and Nick will need a lot of work on this and if they won't gel together in this then either Del or Nick need to be swapped out for Brooks, Trundle or Akinde. And it won't be Nicky unless GJ wants a £2m egg on his face.

[terjon]

it amazes me how naive some people are and are getting onto Maynard's back, in the same way they have done in previous seasons at Trundle and Jevons.

the simple fact is we are not playing to his strengths, you just need to look at the forwards we have signed in recent seasons, Jevons, Trundle and now Maynard, all forwards signed due to their goal scoring records at previous clubs, but for NONE of them it's worked out well at City to date and they become scapegoats with "some" fans.

It's a simple thing for all of them, they haven't been receiving decent service and none of the have reproduced their form to date at City, it seems a constant problem since Gary Johnson has been here, that he can't get goal scorers scoring goals and for me's it's mainly due to the poor service too them, what's the point in constantly signing goal poachers such as these 3 when you don't play to any of their strengths and have given none of them any quality constant service.

We have been succesful since GJ has been here, however the main constant negative has been lack of service to forwards due to no supply from midfield, until that's resolved we are going to constantly have people moaning about "so and so" forward not delivering and not being good enough, despite the fact that if you don't get the ball in the right position, you won't score goals.

A well written post,

We all get frustrated at our new signings looking out of there depth, not scoring etc, But the fact are there for us all to see.

Take a hard look at the midfield, it creates very little, we hold on to the ball to long and when we did get it forward its either pumped up high or we cross from full back positions.

Gary Johnson, has now got to address this problem, we cant continue to ignore the obvious,

Macclindoe..........Good on the ball, always lively, but actually creates very little, always goes insidfe where he gets crowded out,

Lee Johnson...Tidy player,keeps the ball well, creates nothing,

Skuse....tries hard,creates nothing,

Sproule- willimas .........don't get enough decent crosses in......so ineffective......

We need to sort this out very quickly.......or Maynard is also going to fail

[tin]

Good post BH and I agree with all of it. The common denominator is the service. You could put Michael Owen or anyone in this side and they won't get goals.

Maynard's getting in the right positions but needs some luck and decent service otherwise he, like many before him, won't get as many goals as we hoped. FACT!

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

Good post.

But what do the teams that Jevons, Trundle and Maynard have played in, all have in common?

Go on you know you want to ...... go on you cant help yourself i can see someone is dying to say it

Flog that dead donkey

[Redhyde]

7 goals out of 10 total in 8 games have been scored by strikers. That's 3.5 per striking slot this season. If Mayanrd's on 4 and Adebola is on 3 this post wouldn't be here.

Where we're lacking in creativity really is creating chances from central midfield which should change once Elliott is back and from defence which should change once McCombe is back. We've had 0 goals from these 6 positions this season. We play two midfielders who don't attack in Skuse and LJ and yet our full backs aren't being allowed to/aren't able to create or take chances.

What's been highlighted is that a) our midfield needs a player who gets up to the other area and has the quality to take chances and b) Our full backs do not have the quality/ability/intelligence/instruction to take advantage of the shift in midfield dynamics and c) missing a guy who's 6'5 for set plays affects us...

And we play negative football so we're not going to score hatfuls of goals.

[Dr Castro]

7 goals out of 10 total in 8 games have been scored by strikers. That's 3.5 per striking slot this season. If Mayanrd's on 4 and Adebola is on 3 this post wouldn't be here.

Where we're lacking in creativity really is creating chances from central midfield which should change once Elliott is back and from defence which should change once McCombe is back. We've had 0 goals from these 6 positions this season. We play two midfielders who don't attack in Skuse and LJ and yet our full backs aren't being allowed to/aren't able to create or take chances.

What's been highlighted is that a) our midfield needs a player who gets up to the other area and has the quality to take chances and b) Our full backs do not have the quality/ability/intelligence/instruction to take advantage of the shift in midfield dynamics and c) missing a guy who's 6'5 for set plays affects us...

And we play negative football so we're not going to score hatfuls of goals.

There was a really good post a couple of weeks ago on last seasons stats, and the most striking one was how much Marvin was involved in both attack and defence. The long hoof last night was depressing - what we seemed to miss was a box to box Gerrard-alike - Marvin - who could have attacked Carsley (who was dammit v. good) and opened the speces for the two strikers ON THE GROUND.

[bh_red]

Go on you know you want to ...... go on you cant help yourself i can see someone is dying to say it

Flog that dead donkey

it'a not about flogging a dead donkey, it's a perfectly valid point when we are failing to create goal scoring chances for forward, it's a responsibiltiy that falls on the entire midfield (if not the entire team)

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

it'a not about flogging a dead donkey, it's a perfectly valid point when we are failing to create goal scoring chances for forward, it's a responsibiltiy that falls on the entire midfield (if not the entire team)

17 SHOTS LAST NIGHT OF WHICH 11 were on target that is NOT a lack of creativity.

We were outclassed in the first half last night by a team full of players that have played Premier League football. We came back well in the second half and created several chances.

If we didn't have any chances then i would agree about the lack of creativity but we did so i stand by my comment of flogging a dead donkey.

[Dynamite Red]

For my 10p's worth we do seem to be playing more direct since the signing of Adebola which is a shame. I think Maynard will come good but he might take longer than people were hoping to adjust to this level and the way we play, any fans who get on his back are morons and could send a promising young player backwards.

[Red Zeppelin]

I for one am getting really bored by bh_red's anti-LJ stance and his constant elusions to him being the heart of our problems. You only have to flick through his recent posts to see they are plagued by LJ criticism. There is a difference between 'having an opinion', as people are perfectly entitled to, and referring to one man in every other post.

There was a really good post a couple of weeks ago on last seasons stats, and the most striking one was how much Marvin was involved in both attack and defence. The long hoof last night was depressing - what we seemed to miss was a box to box Gerrard-alike - Marvin - who could have attacked Carsley (who was dammit v. good) and opened the speces for the two strikers ON THE GROUND.

That was the KPA Project I posted. We will see another evaluation after this block of ten games, but after 6 games things are already taking shape.

The facts are, Lee Johnson is providing almost exactly the same impetus as Lee Johnson this time last season when we were doing well in the league. However, McIndoe and Orr have both dropped in creativity, but most significantly, Skuse provides exactly HALF of what Elliott does going forward!

Without McIndoe's form of last season, and Elliott's prescence in middle, our team's 'creativity' has dropped and therefore the spotlight as unfairly been turned on Lee Johnson when he is conversely one of the few players emulating last season's form.

If Elliott was alongside him in midfield making goals then he wouldn't face the same criticism.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

I for one am getting really bored by bh_red's anti-LJ stance and his constant elusions to him being the heart of our problems. You only have to flick through his recent posts to see they are plagued by LJ criticism. There is a difference between 'having an opinion', as people are perfectly entitled to, and referring to one man in every other post.

That was the KPA Project I posted. We will see another evaluation after this block of ten games, but after 6 games things are already taking shape.

The facts are, Lee Johnson is providing almost exactly the same impetus as Lee Johnson this time last season when we were doing well in the league. However, McIndoe and Orr have both dropped in creativity, but most significantly, Skuse provides exactly HALF of what Elliott does going forward!

Without McIndoe's form of last season, and Elliott's prescence in middle, our team's 'creativity' has dropped and therefore the spotlight as unfairly been turned on Lee Johnson when he is conversely one of the few players emulating last season's form.

If Elliott was alongside him in midfield making goals then he wouldn't face the same criticism.

Totally agree, you have said what i have been trying to get across. Some people just find it easy to have a go at LJ without backing it up

[Jordan Tansley]

the reason our golascorers don't score is because we don't base our entire game around them. if we played to maynard's strngths he would score 20+

if we played to trundles strengths he would score 20+

if we played to jevons strengths we would lose 20 fans a game due to broken noses in the atyeo

the fact is GJ wont change his mentality but will risk his reputation signing strikers for big money :noexpression:

he believes in the large lump up top.... bas savage/mccammon/enoch/dele/guy madjo/akinde?

he doesnt believe in getting the midfield supplying through balls to the wingers or the strikers, nobody seems to have told maynard to stick to the shoulder of the last man at all times :noexpression: tbh the people at the club shouldnt care about people on here saying maynard is a passenger! thats all he has to do, make runs and stick to the last man. i don't want to see nicky covering at right back ever again

the reason crewe had a bit of success in terms of survival with NM in there team is because they based there entire game around him. we need to do the same in order to score the goals to win us matches and then achieve what we all believe is possible. the promised land

[BCAGFC]

1- Our midfield is not strong enough, has to be helped by our defence and strikers.

2- Quality of service is VERY poor.

3- Team Tactics- Our players cannot cope with the Man Ure fluency tactics, stick to a strict 442, at least players know where they are with that.

4- Teams tactics- Forwards are there to score goals, not defend in their own half (back to 1).

5- Very poor set pieces.

BCAGFC

[westy]

Agree with Tansley about not playing to their individual strengths but I think it goes deeper in than GJ will not allow the strikers to feel special which will give them convidence everything is geared up for team moral rather than building play around individuals and tehrefore it is very difficult for our strikers to really feel on top of the world!!

IMO we should let trundle and maynard be the men with dele to mix it up and quite simply if it means the team have to be a bit undestanding towards them in exchange for goals I would take it.

[bh_red]

17 SHOTS LAST NIGHT OF WHICH 11 were on target that is NOT a lack of creativity.

We were outclassed in the first half last night by a team full of players that have played Premier League football. We came back well in the second half and created several chances.

If we didn't have any chances then i would agree about the lack of creativity but we did so i stand by my comment of flogging a dead donkey.

I saw that same stat this morning on the website and instantly thought.....who counts these shots??? EP counted 4 on target? so something is obviously not right

I recalled talking about it last night to the guy I sit next to and we said the same thing, which was that we were dominating possession in the 2nd half, however we were barely making Taylor work and that he barely had a save to make, emailed him straight away this morning and his thoughts were the same as mine....

I can remember 3 shots on target in 2nd half, Trundle's goal, the straight forward save from LJ's free kick and the save from Sproule, I'm sure there was a couple more, but i find it hard to believe we had 11 chances.

[IAmNick]

I can't help but feeling that after a while you have to stop looking at your strikers, and focus on the rest of the team.

People are acting like the return of Marvin will answer all our problems, and while he is a fantastic player, he can't be single handedly expected to carry our build up play - his real strengths are charging around, breaking down the opposition play in my opinion, and then getting forward when needed. If he's expected to do the build up play as well, then what are our other midfielder, and wingers doing exactly? The team seem to just run out of ideas, with Mcindoe coming in off the wing, and Williams being played out of position. When was the last time you saw on of our central midfield pair really run with the ball, attacking the opposition, the way Louis sometimes does when the team is slumped!

In my opinion we need the wingers to stay on the wing to provide more options for our midfield, and a quality attack minded central midfielder to sit alongside Marvin - whether that's Williams in his true position, an improved Johnson, or Noble, I don't care, otherwise poor Marv will end up burnt out in a few months again I believe Dele is a great forward, and Maynard is doing well so far as much as he can, but god he must be getting frustrated! Sorry this sounds so negative, but I just strongly believe we are a few small tactical changes away from a promotion winning squad right now!

[bh_red]

I for one am getting really bored by bh_red's anti-LJ stance and his constant elusions to him being the heart of our problems. You only have to flick through his recent posts to see they are plagued by LJ criticism. There is a difference between 'having an opinion', as people are perfectly entitled to, and referring to one man in every other post.

The facts are, Lee Johnson is providing almost exactly the same impetus as Lee Johnson this time last season when we were doing well in the league. However, McIndoe and Orr have both dropped in creativity, but most significantly, Skuse provides exactly HALF of what Elliott does going forward!

Without McIndoe's form of last season, and Elliott's prescence in middle, our team's 'creativity' has dropped and therefore the spotlight as unfairly been turned on Lee Johnson when he is conversely one of the few players emulating last season's form.

If Elliott was alongside him in midfield making goals then he wouldn't face the same criticism.

if you don't like my posting, read it and ignore it, I haven't mentioned LJ in the topic posting but the midfield as a whole, as you see a number of people have actually agreed with me, so obviously I'm not the only one that feels this way.

As for LJ.......Personally I do feel LJ is providing the same as last season, which wasn't enough then either.......

[Jordan Tansley]

light as unfairly been turned on Lee Johnson when he is conversely one of the few players emulating last season's form.

If Elliott was alongside him in midfield making goals then he wouldn't face the same criticism.

so what you have just said is that LJ is being carried by Marvin then? because when marvin is in the team he does the work LJ should be therefore LJ doesnt look so bad?

sh!++!ng in your own face?

[Red Zeppelin]

so what you have just said is that LJ is being carried by Marvin then? because when marvin is in the team he does the work LJ should be therefore LJ doesnt look so bad?

sh!++!ng in your own face?

Talk about putting words in people's mouth.

I'm happy with what Johnson brings to the team, but the offensive work of Cole Skuse is virtually non-existent. In an Elliott/Johnson combination they both contribute a lot to our creativity, Johnson dictates from deep while Elliott is around the 18-yard box and we create a lot of good chances with them both.

However, in a Skuse/Johnson partnership, Johnson does exactly the same thing as he does with Elliott, but Skuse provides nothing going forward, so with Elliott missing and our other protagonists falling short such as McIndoe, the spotlight is heavily on Johnson from people such as yourselves.

LJ is not carried by Marvin at all. Elliott increases our attacking threat a lot, and we become more likely to create chances and win games with him in the side, and if we win more games LJ isn't faced by the same criticism as you look to find a scapegoat.

[bh_red]

17 SHOTS LAST NIGHT OF WHICH 11 were on target that is NOT a lack of creativity.

We were outclassed in the first half last night by a team full of players that have played Premier League football. We came back well in the second half and created several chances.

If we didn't have any chances then i would agree about the lack of creativity but we did so i stand by my comment of flogging a dead donkey.

and following up from my previous posting, ...I think you need to listen to the below from GJ, where he doesn't believe we actually made the keeper work very hard,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7620511.stm

[Jordan Tansley]

Talk about putting words in people's mouth.

I'm happy with what Johnson brings to the team, but the offensive work of Cole Skuse is virtually non-existent. In an Elliott/Johnson combination they both contribute a lot to our creativity, Johnson dictates from deep while Elliott is around the 18-yard box and we create a lot of good chances with them both.

However, in a Skuse/Johnson partnership, Johnson does exactly the same thing as he does with Elliott, but Skuse provides nothing going forward, so with Elliott missing and our other protagonists falling short such as McIndoe, the spotlight is heavily on Johnson from people such as yourselves.

LJ is not carried by Marvin at all. Elliott increases our attacking threat a lot, and we become more likely to create chances and win games with him in the side. When we don't get the right result the blame is quickly placed on LJ.

so if LJ knows marvin gets foward more than skuse he should adapt his game to be more attaking himself?

shouldnt footballers at this level ahve more than one side to there game?

if i was in LJ's position i would see marvin out of the team as an opportunity to take games by the scruff of the neck and dictate them if only to prove to "people like me" that i have what it takes

[Red Zeppelin]

so if LJ knows marvin gets foward more than skuse he should adapt his game to be more attaking himself?

shouldnt footballers at this level ahve more than one side to there game?

if i was in LJ's position i would see marvin out of the team as an opportunity to take games by the scruff of the neck and dictate them if only to prove to "people like me" that i have what it takes

Yes probably.

It would be good to see LJ playing further forward. But if Gary wanted him playing like that in compensation of Skuse he'd probably be telling him to do so. Besides, LJ plays best in the role he played last night, and the role he's played the last few seasons in playing behind everyone and dictating our attack. Some people would prefer a more flashy player further up like Carle but LJ has always played that role under Gary and it's worked so far.

I think Lee playing where is he does is fine, and worked well last night but it all went down the pan because of our winger problems with McIndoe and Williams not playing in the right positions. If we get two wingers back into a 4-4-2 then we've got a good system.

[Jordan Tansley]

Yes probably.

It would be good to see LJ playing further forward. But if Gary wanted him playing like that in compensation of Skuse he'd probably be telling him to do so. Besides, LJ plays best in the role he played last night, and the role he's played the last few seasons in playing behind everyone and dictating our attack. Some people would prefer a more flashy player further up like Carle but LJ has always played that role under Gary and it's worked so far.

I think Lee playing where is he does is fine, and worked well last night but it all went down the pan because of our winger problems with McIndoe and Williams not playing in the right positions. If we get two wingers back into a 4-4-2 then we've got a good system.

is fine good enough to get us in the Premier League? if you want to prgress there are sacrifices you have to make

i feel Little Lee plays best in a 5 man midfield.... but city don't

lee has to add something to his game to be ahead of williams and noble imo, marvin and skuse can tackle, willaims and noble can dribble and play quality through balls consistently, Little lee does neither, fair enough he retains possesion by sitting and giving it wide but if we want to progess i don't think that can be considered enough to merit a place in the team

[Red Zeppelin]

is fine good enough to get us in the Premier League? if you want to prgress there are sacrifices you have to make

Almost did last season. Our promotion form then dipped when he was injured...

[Jordan Tansley]

results were poor but i thought we played our best footbal of the entire season wiith carle in instead of LJ second half against stoke and sheffield utd away were brilliant and we were unlucky to lose, Nick Carle had tackiling and dribbling! he also had noble and trrunds in his team so we kept the ball on the floor.... anyone remember how good adebola was against sheffield utd? did we play any high balls that time? nope

[ooRya]

Almost did last season. Our promotion form then dipped when he was injured...

[Red Zeppelin]

results were poor but i thought we played our best footbal of the entire season wiith carle in instead of LJ second half against stoke and sheffield utd away were brilliant and we were unlucky to lose, Nick Carle had tackiling and dribbling! he also had noble and trrunds in his team so we kept the ball on the floor.... anyone remember how good adebola was against sheffield utd? did we play any high balls that time? nope

Great being flashy like Carle was, but did it help the team? Nope. Johnson and McIndoe have been our most important attacking players and elevated us to that position last season. I think you are trying to imply that Lee Johnson is the result of long ball horrible football up to Adebola, and Carle brought it down to football on the deck. Much of our success last season came with LJ playing in the pre-Adebola side you must remember.

Incidentally I went to the Sheff Utd away game and yes we did play some good football but equally did we play any high balls? Yes.

Finally you say Carle could tackle. Don't let the play-offs cloud your memory when he made literally a couple of great tackles, Carle's defensive positional sense was shocking at times and he simply wasn't as decent as Johnson at defending.

I'll agree Carle was far, far more exciting to watch than Johnson, and had some entertaining tricks in his repetoire also, but I would much prefer the more effective Johnson who has contributed to our success over the years.

[Jordan Tansley]

Great being flashy like Carle was, but did it help the team? Nope. Johnson and McIndoe have been our most important attacking players and elevated us to that position last season. I think you are trying to imply that Lee Johnson is the result of long ball horrible football up to Adebola, and Carle brought it down to football on the deck. Much of our success last season came with LJ playing in the pre-Adebola side you must remember.

Incidentally I went to the Sheff Utd away game and yes we did play some good football but equally did we play any high balls? Yes.

Finally you say Carle could tackle. Don't let the play-offs cloud your memory when he made literally a couple of great tackles, Carle's defensive positional sense was shocking at times and he simply wasn't as decent as Johnson at defending.

I'll agree Carle was far, far more exciting to watch than Johnson, and had some entertaining tricks in his repetoire also, but I would much prefer the more effective Johnson who has contributed to our success over the years.

i think it did help the team, he added another dimension and when him nobes and trunds got it right in the last 3 games before wembley it made us one of the most entertaining teams in the division

I'm not letting those two games cloud my judgement, i saw his debut against palace in the league at selhurst and i thought he was fantastic, he ran around put challenges in and passed the ball crisply and accurately. and in no way in the world is lee johnson better than carle defensively, I'm struggling to think of a player worse than lee johnson at defending, he bottles challenges and rarley busts a gut to get back and help, carle never bottled a challenge but went in hard, and he had enough pace and energy to get back and help, positional sense or not id rather have his effort and skill tbh

lee johnson does contribute largely to long balls as he gives it to defenders with id say more than 40% of his passes, therefore if the defender he gave it to was mccombe the ball invaribly is going to be slapped 100foot in the air toward dele, if lee passed the ball foward occasionally we wouldnt be in a position where people have to or feel the need to play it long

effectiveness is a word i cannot link with little lee, I'm sorry but to effect a game you must be scoring or assisting, deadballs are fantastic but his effecty on open play is not as great as people make out