bh_red Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 (or 4-4-1-1 if that's what people what to call it) No, No, No, No, No, No, No. NOT AT HOME. Away from home, when your happy to soak up play and try to pinch a goal, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE NOT AT HOME. It works well IF you have midfielders who can link up and keep up with play , but to be honest on many occasions our midfielders don't keep up with the play, they all do their roles well enough in a 5, but on too many occasions then don't link up or keep up with the forward Really hoped today we would switch back to 4-4-2 (possibly leaving out Williams) to bring John back into the starting line up, but alas Gary stuck with his unchanged team (which is perfectly understandable) perhaps I just want us to show some ambition at Home against a team at the wrong end of the table. Forest like Southampton last week, didn't look a great team and still feel they were there for the taking, however if your giving teams easy goals, then your always going to lose more points than you gain. No one played particularly badly, but no-one really impressed, Elliott pick of the bunch, Skuse got caught flat footed after just coming on, but improved as the game went on. Most disappointing thing for me, was when looking to the bench, to see no Trundle, which meant a lack of other creative options to bring on, as felt he would have been perfect to come on for Williams on the right, personally feel Maynard and John are too similar a player and is almost like waste a sub place, one or other, but not both on the bench. One thing for sure is........CAREY and McALLISTER MUST START next Saturday if fit, 2 experienced defenders who can actually orgainse the defence. Palace Team for me... Basso Orr, Fontaine, Carey, McAllister Noble, Johnson, Elliott, McIndoe. John, Trundle Subs Weale McCombe Sproule Maynard Williams On a side note...16 points from top spot (which is even more scary that it's wolves), 10 points from Second, HOWEVER only 4 points from a play-off place, so we are still more than capable of grabbing a spot, IF we can stop throwing away points at home with games we should (and could) be winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellyred Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 4-5-1 at home is a disgrace, we should only be using it away from home imo or if we are being absolutely battered at home. I think Forest were very poor at the back apart from Wes Morgan who dominated Dele. It made a big difference, I think, when John came on and gave the Forest defence someone else to think about. Forest were there for the taking but the formation was wrong to start with and left us with too short a time to catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 4-5-1 at home is a disgrace, Get some perspective ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Get some perspective ffs maybe not a discrace, but do you think it is a positive formation to play at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I fail to see how Maynard and John are the same type of players?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE MARTINS HAIR Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I don't think our midfield is strong enough to play 4-4-2 unfortunately ! We had our best results last year with 4-5-1 and with the current crop of players i cant see it changing too much apart from Elliott and Skuse all our midfielders are pretty similar Johnson,Noble,Williams,Sproule,McIndoe all fairly small and a bit lightweight The only time we looked effective with 4-4-2 last year was our end of season run with Elliott and Carle in cente mid, both very strong and mobile with noble on the right and two upfront, Trundle and Dele Maybe we should be looking for a strong midfielder to help Marv out rather than stockpliling strikers and then only playing one at a time seems a bit daft Did we ever replace Carle ? Old story though, been done many times before, I realise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 ok, John and Maynard are not EXACTLY the same type of player, however are both pacy goalscorers as opposed to targetmen, so in that vien they are similar, though agree with the point they have slightly different styles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 maybe not a discrace, but do you think it is a positive formation to play at home? Depends how we play it, and with what players. Today was poor, although I don't think at this stage we can use any formation and see the same fight and spirit as last season. I feel this is where the problem is, rather than the system. Too many key players aren't playing as they can this season, no wonder GJ wants to keep it tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 maybe not a discrace, but do you think it is a positive formation to play at home? The 4-5-1 Formation would have worked a treat if we didn't give two goals away by sloppy play and didn't miss the penalty! We were all over Forest before the first goal, and once they got it, it lifted their spirits and gave Forest something to fight for! Formation was perfectly fine until drastic action was needed around the hour mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbonkingbob Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 ok, John and Maynard are not EXACTLY the same type of player, however are both pacy goalscorers as opposed to targetmen, so in that vien they are similar, though agree with the point they have slightly different styles Have you ever actually seen Stern John play? Because he isn't particularly quick, and is at his best as a target man because he's so good in the air. His link up play is superb but he won't get through huge amounts of work running the defenders everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Depends how we play it, and with what players. Today was poor, although I don't think at this stage we can use any formation and see the same fight and spirit as last season. I feel this is where the problem is, rather than the system. Too many key players aren't playing as they can this season, no wonder GJ wants to keep it tight. that's the problem, if we have 2 pacey attacking wingers who can support the frontman, or if we had the two attacking central players supporting the forward, then it would work, but unfortunately we have and do neither, which just leaves the forward isolated. we seriously need McIndoe to find some form, Elliott looked a HELL of alot better after the goal, as for the Right Wing......well, do we have a decent one? then your left the remaining central midfield position which is one from Williams/Noble/Johnson, who are all basically fighting for one position, neither of them are wingers, but for me for one reason or another I don't think any of the 3 are the answer, all have good points, all have bad points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED4LIFE Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Get some perspective ffs Agreed, come on people how can you say the formation is defensive when we scored two goals and could have had more? And this from a side that hasnt been exactly prolific this season. I feel sorry for GJ as he gets moaned at for not playing Noble, and when he does play him, people moan we shouldnt be playing the only formation we can afford to play with him in the side. Lets be honest, we cant play 4-4-2 with DN in the side, as the way he plays would upset the balance of the side in a 4-4-2 (by this I mean the way we play, not formation wise), so we have to play 4-5-1 to accommodate him. Its also no surprise we score more goals with him in the side. Now before people start saying he should play instead of LJ, please realise he is a totally different type of player than LJ. The fact they are both ball-players is where the similarity ends, and the tactics we use as a team revolves around LJ 'quaterbacking' (I hate that term, but its apt) from the back, unless we are lumping it up to big Dele, and none of us want to see that on a regular basis do we? Again, before people start moaning about changing tactics if this is the case to employ Noble in a more attacking formation, don't forget that a 4-5-1 can very quickly become a 4-3-1-2 which is (roughly) the same tactic Man U have been using recently, and they havent done too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 that's the problem, if we have 2 pacey attacking wingers who can support the frontman, or if we had the two attacking central players supporting the forward, then it would work, but unfortunately we have and do neither, which just leaves the forward isolated. we seriously need McIndoe to find some form, Elliott looked a HELL of alot better after the goal, as for the Right Wing......well, do we have a decent one? then your left the remaining central midfield position which is one from Williams/Noble/Johnson, who are all basically fighting for one position, neither of them are wingers, but for me for one reason or another I don't think any of the 3 are the answer, all have good points, all have bad points. Are we playing with wingers though? It's too lazey to brand people as "wingers" these days. Depending on the system and how we've played, I suspect they're more like "wide midfielders". I think that's clearly why Williams or Wilson are favoured over Sproule. I agree that we look isolated when we go forward, but unfortuantly where we were able to hit teams on the counter last season, we're being paid far more respect at Ashton Gate, and the chances to break from midfield are clearly limited. 442? Not sure, we play that and get swamped in the middle. I'd hate to be GJ, because he's expected to perform the impossible this season (imo) which is to emulate what we managed last term. With the players we have, no matter what the formation it simply wont happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I'd hate to be GJ, because he's expected to perform the impossible this season (imo) which is to emulate what we managed last term. With the players we have, no matter what the formation it simply wont happen. I agree. But it is his fault we have virtually the same players as last season. We need to improve the team to kick on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPER REDS Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I think its a 433 it works ok if you can get players up supporting to be fair in the first half McCindoe and Adebola got in and should of scored so it worked ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Are we playing with wingers though? It's too lazey to brand people as "wingers" these days. Depending on the system and how we've played, I suspect they're more like "wide midfielders". I think that's clearly why Williams or Wilson are favoured over Sproule. I agree that we look isolated when we go forward, but unfortuantly where we were able to hit teams on the counter last season, we're being paid far more respect at Ashton Gate, and the chances to break from midfield are clearly limited. 442? Not sure, we play that and get swamped in the middle. I'd hate to be GJ, because he's expected to perform the impossible this season (imo) which is to emulate what we managed last term. With the players we have, no matter what the formation it simply wont happen. fair point, none of them are actually playing as "wingers", even in the 5 man midfield, which I think is part of the problem. the most popular comment this season about McIndoe is, that he keep cutting inside, and literally he isn't a winger at the moment, which is probably tactical, and it is the same on the right, when williams plays in that apart from Elliott who sits deep, the others just play all over the place in midfield and roam. with the right midfielders, 4-4-2 would work, but for me it's the problem that I think was there at the start of the season, no right winger and the non replacement of Carle. At the tail end of last season, we did look solid and strong with Elliott and Carle and 4-4-2 worked, despite the fact we have no right winger. as previous poster said that and I agree with is part of the problem is that, personally speaking.....midfield was the problem last season and it's the same problem now, I just don't feel the team/squad was improved enough during the summer, Williams looks good......but in the middle, but I'm honestly not sure if he is any better than LJ/Noble and for me is just another squad player not a key player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellyred Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Get some perspective ffs I've got plenty of perspective thanks, in my mind its a disgrace. At home you take the game to the opposition. 4-5-1 is NOT an attacking formation in the way we utilise it and with our players. Whilst with other teams I think it can be an effective formation we do not have the players to exploit it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellyred Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Agreed, come on people how can you say the formation is defensive when we scored two goals and could have had more? And this from a side that hasnt been exactly prolific this season. We scored the second goal after changing formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketscrots Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 today we carved out more goal scoring op's than what we have in previous home games. (most came in the first half). Had we finished them off (mcindoe should have done better) and not leaked the goals it would have worked a treat. besides it was more 4-4-1-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 maybe not a discrace, but do you think it is a positive formation to play at home? Was used a fair amount at home last season,and we played our best football when we played 4,5,1. We have only used it once this season at home and except for the missed pen we would have won. I am happy to carry on playing it at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I've got plenty of perspective thanks, in my mind its a disgrace. At home you take the game to the opposition. 4-5-1 is NOT an attacking formation in the way we utilise it and with our players. Whilst with other teams I think it can be an effective formation we do not have the players to exploit it correctly. "At home you take the game to the opposition" What like against Reading with two up front and getting over run all over the rest of the pitch? No, you go out home or away with the formation and playing style which gives you the best chance of Winning the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 The problem we have imo is this Only elliott out of our centre midfielders is able to play in a 4-4-2 LJ, williams and noble all seem to play thier best football in a 5 man midfield If this is the case, In January we have to buy one of the following (1) A strong midfielder who can play along side elliott in a 4-4-2 or (2) A forward who can play up front on his own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 The problem we have imo is this Only elliott out of our centre midfielders is able to play in a 4-4-2 LJ, williams and noble all seem to play thier best football in a 5 man midfield If this is the case, In January we have to buy one of the following (1) A strong midfielder who can play along side elliott in a 4-4-2 or (2) A forward who can play up front on his own In the case of (2), we (if rumours were correct) didnt want to spend the asking price on one of the best there is in this division.And he showed us today why we should have. Tyson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbonkingbob Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 In the case of (2), we (if rumours were correct) didnt want to spend the asking price on one of the best there is in this division.And he showed us today why we should have. Tyson. There wasn't an asking price. Forest didn't want to sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 There wasn't an asking price. Forest didn't want to sell him. I understood that we offered 750k but Forest wanted a million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 In the case of (2), we (if rumours were correct) didnt want to spend the asking price on one of the best there is in this division.And he showed us today why we should have. Tyson. If GJ had paid the price forest asked for Tyson alot of fans on here would of slagged him off saying "we already have a forward in Brooker who is never fit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbonkingbob Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 No, Tyson's agent was agitating in the summer because he hadn't been offered a new contract but Forest wanted to see how he did with injuries and a higher level of football before they made a contract offer. He didn't start well, but the last couple of games he has looked pretty useful at this level and I suspect that he'll be offered a pretty lucrative contract shortly. He's one of only three senior strikers Forest have, so it's unlikely that Tyson will be available for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 (or 4-4-1-1 if that's what people what to call it) No, No, No, No, No, No, No. NOT AT HOME. Away from home, when your happy to soak up play and try to pinch a goal, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE NOT AT HOME. It works well IF you have midfielders who can link up and keep up with play , but to be honest on many occasions our midfielders don't keep up with the play, they all do their roles well enough in a 5, but on too many occasions then don't link up or keep up with the forward Really hoped today we would switch back to 4-4-2 (possibly leaving out Williams) to bring John back into the starting line up, but alas Gary stuck with his unchanged team (which is perfectly understandable) perhaps I just want us to show some ambition at Home against a team at the wrong end of the table. Forest like Southampton last week, didn't look a great team and still feel they were there for the taking, however if your giving teams easy goals, then your always going to lose more points than you gain. No one played particularly badly, but no-one really impressed, Elliott pick of the bunch, Skuse got caught flat footed after just coming on, but improved as the game went on. Most disappointing thing for me, was when looking to the bench, to see no Trundle, which meant a lack of other creative options to bring on, as felt he would have been perfect to come on for Williams on the right, personally feel Maynard and John are too similar a player and is almost like waste a sub place, one or other, but not both on the bench. One thing for sure is........CAREY and McALLISTER MUST START next Saturday if fit, 2 experienced defenders who can actually orgainse the defence. Palace Team for me... Basso Orr, Fontaine, Carey, McAllister Noble, Johnson, Elliott, McIndoe. John, Trundle Subs Weale McCombe Sproule Maynard Williams On a side note...16 points from top spot (which is even more scary that it's wolves), 10 points from Second, HOWEVER only 4 points from a play-off place, so we are still more than capable of grabbing a spot, IF we can stop throwing away points at home with games we should (and could) be winning. How can you leave Adabola out of your squad?.No coincidence that he didnt play against Reading and we got stuffed,partly because our ball didnt stick upfront because we had no physical presence. He holds our frontline together and must be a nightmare to play against. Away from home in the last few games hes been tremendous.First name on the teamsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 No, Tyson's agent was agitating in the summer because he hadn't been offered a new contract but Forest wanted to see how he did with injuries and a higher level of football before they made a contract offer. He didn't start well, but the last couple of games he has looked pretty useful at this level and I suspect that he'll be offered a pretty lucrative contract shortly. He's one of only three senior strikers Forest have, so it's unlikely that Tyson will be available for sale. Ok cheers, obviously Forrest will try and keep him now. Classy striker, we should have taken him from Wycombe a few years back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh_red Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 How can you leave Adabola out of your squad?.No coincidence that he didnt play against Reading and we got stuffed,partly because our ball didnt stick upfront because we had no physical presence. He holds our frontline together and must be a nightmare to play against. Away from home in the last few games hes been tremendous.First name on the teamsheet. ummmmmm, good point.....I don't know??? forgot him for some reason? which also explains why I put both Williams and Sproule on the bench??? which is equally daft? Adebola for Sproule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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