Gj's 4-4-2 Comment

[Rednready]

GJ commented that Skuse was selected instead of Noble due to our 4-4-2 formation.

Have a think about that.

When GJ arrived he took us from last to just off the playoffs with a 4-4-2 midfield of Noble/Skuse or Noble/Russell. Now he says he selects Skuse instead of Noble BECAUSE its a 4-4-2 formation. If Noble is one of our best attacking technical players, I want him on the field with Skuse, as was proved successful, or Elliot. I don't buy this Noble unfit nonsense, he's now 26 and in his prime and quite frankly I would sooner have him out there for 60-70 minutes than the below average that gets overrun so often.

I find GJ's comment about selecting Skuse over Noble for a 4-4-2 as mind boggling, let alone LJ who would be behind either of them in any formation.On current form, Elliot should not be an automatic choice, nor should Noble be excluded purely on the basis of a 4-4-2 formation where he has proved to be effective. I can only assume selections are based on training performances. That has always been a nonsense, good horses , football players etc, often hate training, but know how to perform with the real deal.

PS. Skuse put in the hard yards and got it done, he was better than Elliot who needs to lift his game.

[Hicksy-BCFC]

Sadly I missed the game because of having to work the other side of the world this week (I wasn't that sad after watching us play Watford though) - however speaking to our kid who was there, it pretty much backs up what people have been saying.

1. Skuse played well. For me he is not of CCC quality. I have seen him too many times (B'ham and Wolves off the top of my head) get caught out which has directly caused goals. A sign of a player out of his depth.

2. A 4-4-2 certainly can work with us at home. I think for it to work we have to pair a good old fashioned workhorse, get the challenges in player with a creative player. A Noble - Elliott pairing would be my choice. Both Skuse and Elliott are the former, they'll put it in but we need a creative guy with them.

3. People say LJ gets in the team because of who he is. I don't buy that but I do think he gets favoured. McIndoe also gets favoured but for different reasons. We simply don't have another left winger. If he drops him, who does he play? Brian Wilson? Well no because now we have him at right back? Also where is our cover for a left back - without McAllister we switch a fella who prefers it at centre-back to left back. Far from ideal.

4. Right winger. We need one. Clearly.

5. Strikers. Believe it or not, I don't think up front is the problem. We have lads who can score, we know that and they know that. If you don't petrol in a Ferrari it won't get up to even 10mph. They do not have service. A striker is nothing without service. Torres and Rooney would end up coming back into midfield to get the ball if they played for us!!

In regard to formation, its clear that 4-5-1 works for us away from home. The reason (and I would like to think Johnson can see this as well) is that the home team is under pressure from their crowd and expectation to come at us. We can then sturdy up the midfield, protect the back 4 and get players forward on a counter attack. 4-4-2 always leaves us open and exposes the back 4 away from home, particularly when you have a little man like LJ who gets shoved off the ball so easily.

However then keeping the same formation at home (think Forest after Soton) was madness. 4-5-1 at home vs the bottom of the league side is ridiculous. Where on earth were Forest going to come at us like they will at the City Ground? They won't. Before the game their fans and players will be happy to leave with a point. Therefore the onus is on us to go at them. One up front at home never suggests to me we're going to go up the league. We may get the odd 1-0 etc but never a proper 3-0 like we see from Wolves etc at the moment.

Rather than this "keep exactly same side and formation" if we have won. I'd like to see -

1. Players picked on form

2. Formations suited to home or away

3. Creativity to match the effort and bite

4. A strikeforce works when settled. I have seen so many combinations now I don't think anyone knows who are 1st choice front two are. You have to give them time, but midfield is the problem.

5. We MUST buy a right winger and a creative midfielder (like Carle for example, I thought it was madness to let him go but thats done now)

Like I said, sadly I missed Swansea match but I'll be back this week and I'd like to see us have a go and face up to our challenge which is growing with the lack of a win as the weeks go by.

[The Original OTIB]

agree about Skuse. There's a lot of praise for him here but I just can't see it. Today, like a lot of games he has looked out of his depth. Work rate was fine. As it was for most (not SJ) of the team. But decision making was awful overall. Huffing and puffing and running around does not a great team make. Admittedly, it's a start. Sproule is a good example. Worked very hard today BUT didn't really understand that his best bet was to find space wide and attack it with the ball. All too often he was coming BACK to get the ball, then cutting inside... so much on one occassion I thought he was actually changing wings. Eventually, he just lost the ball after ignoring the option of a strike on goal (and if anyone mentions he hasn't got a left foot ... one footed players should not be in ANY team).

Simply put, this team isn't good enough. It's not drama, it's a fact. We need at least 3 in and 3 out to make a difference. Whether funds are available is the problem... and I'm saying this with a view to STABILISING. Without changes, I think we may get dragged down into the bottom 5 or 6, perilously close to the real danger zone.

[screech]

We played more like we weren't about to lose the game but at the expense of we didn't look like we could win the game either.

And for me that is exactly why we may as well accept that mid table is all we are going to hope for this season, GJ clearly showed today that he doesn't have any trust in Noble or Williams ability and will continue to play Lee Johnson as soon as he is fit again, shame really as you expect the home team to go out and have a go at the away side, but I felt all that we set out to achieve yesterday was to not lose the game.

If fitness is the issue (and I don't believe it is for one minute) he could have given Noble and Williams a half each, clearly Johnson doesn't know or doesn't want to know how to incorporate a creative influence in the middle of the park, he didn't fancy Carle, now Noble and Williams.

And after that snub yesterday to Noble he might as well move him on in January, he clearly isn't interested in playing him, and Williams may as well join him, if he can't get a game either what is the point in being here, it's hard for the cries of nepotism not to be heard now.

[The Three R's]

We have a number of players in the squad and on the fringes who frankly aren't chamionship players. For all you fans, pick your best eleven and then take the rose tints off and look to see how many of them would be good enough for the top Championship teams let alone the Premier League.... Yes we were beaten play off finalists but I think we over performed last season.

I think we are a mid table side, thats not a dig its where we are but we need to pick up points quickly or we will be dragged in to the mire. Our problem is the system, 4 4 2 is perfered by most yet the central 2 can't cope without someone helping out.

Elliot is not showing last seasons form, LJ hasn't done it for me, Skuse is one of those fringe players in my view. Noble is our most creative player but doesn't get a look in so if GJ doesn't fancy him then he should get him off the wage bill. Our central midfield short comings are dictating the system.

Service to the front men is poor hence why we are struggling to find the net. Lets be honest if we go a goal down I worry if we are capable of scoring twice becasue we don't currently create enough clear chances.

GJ needs to take a serious look at his squad with January coming up and if needed he needs to convince the chairman to spend money. I just hope he knows what we need like most of the fans seem to!

[italian dave]

Skuse had a good game yesterday. Some of the comments above are a biy unfair on the guy - there's no doubt that he had some poor performances this season when he's had his chance, but yesterday, in a central midfield role, I thought he was great. He broke up play when they had the ball - and he was also far more creative - maybe I was watching a different game but I thought he got the ball out wide very well - but also tried to vary it with some good accurate balls down the channels too.

On yesterday's showing its not "Skuse or Noble", its "Skuse or Johnson" - and GJs commenst on radio Bristol suggested that Skuse would get the nod for the next game on the basis of todays performance and you can't disagree with that.

I agree our strikers don't always get the greatest service, and I especially think we don't play Maynard's game, but I certailny don't think they can be excused of all blame, and sorry but I DO thing Torres or Rooney would score in our side; I think Nathan Tyson and Steven Hunt would too. Our strikers are simply not ruthless enough. And they DO get service and they DO get chances. Stern John had a simple header early on yesterday and didn't even get it on target. McIndoe had early chances in both previous home games and didn't even get them on target. At Preston, Adebola's pathetic effort in the first half (when we had a hatful of chances) was in contrast to Preston's clinical finish for their goal. In this league strikers don't get many chances and when they do the good ones take them. Sadly, ours don't.

[Roger Red Hat]

Skuse had a good game yesterday. Some of the comments above are a biy unfair on the guy - there's no doubt that he had some poor performances this season when he's had his chance, but yesterday, in a central midfield role, I thought he was great. He broke up play when they had the ball - and he was also far more creative - maybe I was watching a different game but I thought he got the ball out wide very well - but also tried to vary it with some good accurate balls down the channels too.

Excellent summary of Skusey's performance in the game that I watched. I couldn't believe the team when I heard it announced but was pleasantly surprised at CS's contribution.

[WarksRed]

i think Marv had his best game of the season yesterday, and that is was due to Skuse taking a share of the closing down role, OK , folks say LJ is the link midfielder, but you have to win the ball first to be able to use it, we are up against better midfields this season than last, and the Marv senario of winning every ball in midfield single handed is not going to happen, Skuse took a big load off Marv yesterday, in closing down and winning tackles, something which is just not part of LJ'S game. because of that Marv's performance was more effective,

we may have stumbled on a centre midfield pairing to build on here, but its going to need more than a 2 game run to see,

Swansea have one of the best away records, and most talented midfields, we gave them few opportunities to show that.

the defence looked much better yesterday, and a passion in the midfield for the first time in a while,

both positives to build on,

we send back Webster and John, that should free up a few pennies, ... and neither are better (or maybe as good) as what we currently have.

now how did that add go ..

'the furure is bright'

the future is RED'

[bh_red]

Skuse had a good game yesterday. Some of the comments above are a biy unfair on the guy - there's no doubt that he had some poor performances this season when he's had his chance, but yesterday, in a central midfield role, I thought he was great. He broke up play when they had the ball - and he was also far more creative - maybe I was watching a different game but I thought he got the ball out wide very well - but also tried to vary it with some good accurate balls down the channels too.

On yesterday's showing its not "Skuse or Noble", its "Skuse or Johnson" - and GJs commenst on radio Bristol suggested that Skuse would get the nod for the next game on the basis of todays performance and you can't disagree with that.

totally agree, can't understand some of the comments regarding Skuse's performance yesterday, he was excellent and even managed a decent shot, which is almost unheard of for Skuse, as well as his normal defensive duties which he did excellently, he kept the ball well and used it creatively.

To be honest he was as much if not more of an attacking threat than LJ has been in recent weeks,

The key thing was however that with those two in the middle, we are strong enough in midfield and we didn't need the wingers to tuck inside to support, which meant they could stick to the wing and actually attack in that position, 2nd half they and Gary realised that the midfield was strong enough and we were getting a number of crosses from both flanks, the quality of them maybe wasn't the best on occasions, but even still I can't remember a game recently where we have seen so much wing play.

I'd be MORE than happy with Skuse/Elliott in the middle for the next few games,

final point that annoys me is is some who slate him on the back of his performance against Brum, yes he had a poor game, but when your directly up against a player like Lee Carlsley (who for me everton should never have let go) your always going to have a tough game, I don't know how much better Marv would have done against him

[Bris Red]

totally agree, can't understand some of the comments regarding Skuse's performance yesterday, he was excellent and even managed a decent shot, which is almost unheard of for Skuse, as well as his normal defensive duties which he did excellently, he kept the ball well and used it creatively.

To be honest he was as much if not more of an attacking threat than LJ has been in recent weeks,

The key thing was however that with those two in the middle, we are strong enough in midfield and we didn't need the wingers to tuck inside to support, which meant they could stick to the wing and actually attack in that position, 2nd half they and Gary realised that the midfield was strong enough and we were getting a number of crosses from both flanks, the quality of them maybe wasn't the best on occasions, but even still I can't remember a game recently where we have seen so much wing play.

I'd be MORE than happy with Skuse/Elliott in the middle for the next few games,

I agree with what you say about the wingers, Mcindoe had far more freedom and like you said didnt have to worry about supporting the midfiled thus meaning he actually played as a winger and ran to the by line.

Shorly GJ can see this, IMHO yesterday showed that LJ really is mucking up the whole sysytem in midfield. This is not ment to be sarcastic but i wonder if GJ will actually pick Lee even when he is fit, because yesterdays performance quite frankly showed we are a MUCH stronger and better unit in midfiled without him.

[Chappers]

Skuse did OK yesterday, and I thought that it was his return that helped Elliott, and allowed the wingers to stay wider. In recent weeks, LJ has been a very weak link, as he is not effective if closed down quickly, and is far too lightweight. Personally, I don't rate Williams or Noble as quite good enough at Championship level. If Sproule had a better end product, the 4-4-2 with a tight central midfield would be ideal, and would cut the vulnerability at the back.

Up front is the real problem, with mediocrity abounding. Maynard is good if behind the defence and 1 on 1 with the keeper, but that's about it, not impressed with John, after a season chasing hoofs, Dele was out yesterday when we actually provided crosses, and we just don't seem to know how to use Trundle.

[bh_red]

Skuse did OK yesterday, and I thought that it was his return that helped Elliott, and allowed the wingers to stay wider. In recent weeks, LJ has been a very weak link, as he is not effective if closed down quickly, and is far too lightweight. Personally, I don't rate Williams or Noble as quite good enough at Championship level. If Sproule had a better end product, the 4-4-2 with a tight central midfield would be ideal, and would cut the vulnerability at the back.

Up front is the real problem, with mediocrity abounding. Maynard is good if behind the defence and 1 on 1 with the keeper, but that's about it, not impressed with John, after a season chasing hoofs, Dele was out yesterday when we actually provided crosses, and we just don't seem to know how to use Trundle.

that's an interesting point, for the first time in a while there was crosses, which sumed up our luck that Dele was out injured as many of them were perfect for him.

If Sproule and McIndoe can be alllowed to stay wide, due to Skuse and Elliott gobbling everything up in the middle and laying it out to them, I believe that Gary could have stumbled on a winning formation, the only concern to the formation for me is Sproule's form, he can be inconsistant at the best of time,.

It's a shame Orr is out of favour, becuase he could come in at Right Back and move Wilson to right wing, when Wilson is playing SOLELY as a right winger, he's done well and is a good crosser.

one to think about.

an interesting thought though is, early season, Skuse was poor........since coming back into the team Elliott has been poor? both were outstanding yesterday?

[Chappers]

Totally agree about Orr, if we are paying him, and he is performing, he should be selected. Wilson is OK, but yey another 'useful squad player' rather than an automatic selection.

[bristolcitysweden]

GJ commented that Skuse was selected instead of Noble due to our 4-4-2 formation.

Have a think about that.

When GJ arrived he took us from last to just off the playoffs with a 4-4-2 midfield of Noble/Skuse or Noble/Russell. Now he says he selects Skuse instead of Noble BECAUSE its a 4-4-2 formation. If Noble is one of our best attacking technical players, I want him on the field with Skuse, as was proved successful, or Elliot. I don't buy this Noble unfit nonsense, he's now 26 and in his prime and quite frankly I would sooner have him out there for 60-70 minutes than the below average that gets overrun so often.

I find GJ's comment about selecting Skuse over Noble for a 4-4-2 as mind boggling, let alone LJ who would be behind either of them in any formation.On current form, Elliot should not be an automatic choice, nor should Noble be excluded purely on the basis of a 4-4-2 formation where he has proved to be effective. I can only assume selections are based on training performances. That has always been a nonsense, good horses , football players etc, often hate training, but know how to perform with the real deal.

PS. Skuse put in the hard yards and got it done, he was better than Elliot who needs to lift his game.

A well balanced post Rednready.

It's not easy to please the manager. Noble can't defend and Carle made it look more than he actually did.

If LJ was fit he definately would have played against Swansea so why not Noble or Williams? Their lack of defending is comparable to Johnsons. Definately DN was first in pecking order.

Cole Skuse performarance yesterday showed a change should have been made a long time ago.

[andy g]

We have a number of players in the squad and on the fringes who frankly aren't chamionship players. For all you fans, pick your best eleven and then take the rose tints off and look to see how many of them would be good enough for the top Championship teams let alone the Premier League.... Yes we were beaten play off finalists but I think we over performed last season.

Are you saying that our squad isnt good enough for the championship, or that our squad isnt a TOP championship squad ? Because to me, thats two very different questions.

Is our squad good enough for the championship ?

YES. Our squad certainly IS good enough for the championship - they proved that last season.

Is our squad a TOP championship squad ?

NO. It would be amazing if we had a squad full of ex-Premier League players and current internationals, but thats simply not realistic. I don't think anyone here is foolish enough to think we could match the squads of clubs like Birmingham, Wolves or Reading.

Instead, we have to make-do with a squad of hard-working, motivated footballers.

Last season, those hard-working, motivated footballers almost got us to the Premier League and this season, clubs like Burnley, Cardiff and Preston are proving that you can do well with limited resources.

If you compare our squad with Burnley, Cardiff or Preston and i don't think there is much difference. Its THOSE clubs we have to emulate not Birmingham, Wolves and Reading.

(And yes, you're quite right to say we over-performed last season and that realistically we're a mid-table side. But, considering we were only promoted the season before last, thats not a bad achievement !)

[bully]

Are you saying that our squad isnt good enough for the championship, or that our squad isnt a TOP championship squad ? Because to me, thats two very different questions.

Is our squad good enough for the championship ?

YES. Our squad certainly IS good enough for the championship - they proved that last season.

Is our squad a TOP championship squad ?

NO. It would be amazing if we had a squad full of ex-Premier League players and current internationals, but thats simply not realistic. I don't think anyone here is foolish enough to think we could match the squads of clubs like Birmingham, Wolves or Reading.

Instead, we have to make-do with a squad of hard-working, motivated footballers.

Last season, those hard-working, motivated footballers almost got us to the Premier League and this season, clubs like Burnley, Cardiff and Preston are proving that you can do well with limited resources.

If you compare our squad with Burnley, Cardiff or Preston and i don't think there is much difference. Its THOSE clubs we have to emulate not Birmingham, Wolves and Reading.

(And yes, you're quite right to say we over-performed last season and that realistically we're a mid-table side. But, considering we were only promoted the season before last, thats not a bad achievement !)

No doubt we are on the slide at present which is a worry, and i'm not sure SL will get the chequebook out until GJ balances the books, which is quite right in my view.

What our players did last season is irrelevant i'm afraid and hard work alone isn't enough.

Cardiff spend money they don't appear to have but in terms of quality, their squad is superior to ours I think.

Where Preston and Burnley (and most other teams) are better than us is in midfield so GJ can play whatever formation he likes, but without the right players in the most demanding part of the pitch we are going to have a tough season.

Apart from the three teams mentioned above plus Sheff Utd, there's no reason why we shouldn't be in the next tier which is competing for a playoff place. I think our defence is generally ok, and who knows what our strikers could acheive with the right service - if we get the midfield right then we should be ok - if GJ persists with his current plan, we may not be ok.

[bcfcmike]

No doubt we are on the slide at present which is a worry, and i'm not sure SL will get the chequebook out until GJ balances the books, which is quite right in my view.

What our players did last season is irrelevant i'm afraid and hard work alone isn't enough.

Cardiff spend money they don't appear to have but in terms of quality, their squad is superior to ours I think.

Where Preston and Burnley (and most other teams) are better than us is in midfield so GJ can play whatever formation he likes, but without the right players in the most demanding part of the pitch we are going to have a tough season.

Apart from the three teams mentioned above plus Sheff Utd, there's no reason why we shouldn't be in the next tier which is competing for a playoff place. I think our defence is generally ok, and who knows what our strikers could acheive with the right service - if we get the midfield right then we should be ok - if GJ persists with his current plan, we may not be ok.

Some good points made there bully!!

[Hicksy-BCFC]

You're right our defence is ok.

I do worry that we lack cover in the full backs position a bit but as regards first choice players, I'm ok with our back 4 and always have been.

They got us to the play offs last season, not the attack (as evidenced by our goals scored column).

Midfield is the worry.

Left wing - McIndoe hasn't been at his best. He keeps playing because we simply don't have anyone else.

Centre Mid - when Marv is off his game we struggle. Shows to me how much we relied on his superman performances last season. He bailed Johnson out time after time last season. Noble is a creative player but just never gets a run in the side. Skuse, as I said, for me is not CCC quality. I didn't see yesterday obviously but have seen many many games for that to be evident. We sold Carle, and I am yet to fully understand why. LJ is too lightweight and I don't think his creativity outweighs that, particularly when away from home.

Right wing - really worries me. Don't know about anyone else, but I never have confidence when Sproule runs with the ball that anything is going to happen.

Forwards - I'd like a settled pairing. I rate Maynard, Trundle, a fit Brooker. Stern John, not overly impressed.

The centre mid and right wing for me are key first choice positions we need to bring in.

Our squad is painfully thin in other areas for me.

[dezgimed]

GJ's argument for not playing Noble is that he doesnt do his fair share of defensive work off the ball.

Can someone tell me what LJ does off the ball that is more effective?

LJ being the player I choose to compare seeing as HE is allowed to play in a 4-4-2, whereas Noble isnt.

[NickJ]

agree about Skuse. There's a lot of praise for him here but I just can't see it. Today, like a lot of games he has looked out of his depth. Work rate was fine. As it was for most (not SJ) of the team. But decision making was awful overall. Huffing and puffing and running around does not a great team make.

At first reading that I thought maybe I had misread what you said, so I read it again and it still reads the same, then I realised that your post is late from a previous game and you have mis-spelt Johnson/McIndoe/Sproule - take your pick depending which game you were commenting on.

Skuse had a great game yesterday (other than one time he dwelt too long and was dispossessed), which I know is what you really meant.

The question is, as the original poster pointed out, where does this leave Noble. GJ seems prepared to play him only out of position, and then criticise his defensive qualities as justification for leaving him out. I agree that Noble isn't great defensively, but there are only central 2 midfielders that contribute more defensively than him - and they both started yesterday.

I have asked this question before, and again: GJ himself has said that Noble is at his most dangerous when we are chasing a game towards the end. Why then has Noble not been on the pitch at the end of a game since Plymouth? Surely GJ is contradicting hiimself? While I have been pleased to see Noble start, its always wide on the right and he always gets brought off. I would think it would almost be better if Noble started off sub but came on every game for the last 20/30 minutes in the middle.

I personally thought John contributed very little yesterday, and I would have had him off rather than Maynard, with Noble coming on for Elliott (Skuse was having a fine game and we would have been ok defensively) playing just behind the front two - that in my view was the perfect time to have Noble on, a bit of guile might have made the difference, and he is always liable to come up with a stunning goal.