Trialists Sent Packing

[Jungle Jim]

Fully support not signing these two if they weren't up to it, and we must remember that triallists are a much rarer source of signings than transfers, so it doesn't necessarily mean our dealings are at an end for the month.

But what surprises me is that these two, who sounded promising on paper at least, weren't even given the chance to play in a reserve game. Obviously they were unlucky with the weather, and presumably only registered players could play in the Glos cup, but I don't know what harm it would have done to keep them another week or so until whenever the next reserve game is.

[dezgimed]

So if, leaving aside all personal opinions of the players involved, we make the assumption that LJ is better than the players he's keeping out of the team (if you like we can even imagine it's the other way around and Noble is 1st choice with LJ the reserve) do you think Gary should occasionally deliberately weaken the team in order to give the backup player a chance? Given that most league games are pretty important and we play very few cup games due to a tendency to get knocked out.

I think it wouldnt be an issue if player X was dropped when not performing like any other member of the squad.

[Tales From The Front]

But the whole point is, you didn't say that (you don't rate LJ) you said you were worried what would happen if we got an injury ..

I read if different to you Willams stand, I beleive the original point being made is the main midfielder was inlured and be "main" I take it it he meant Elliott, we would be in the poo.

The reason for this is that Elliott is the main central midfield player over the last eighteen months that has been our box to box, ball winner. Skuse has shown some good performances of late but is not in Elliott's class and the other players mentioned are the so say creative element, which in itself has caused thread after thread on this board.

You may be happy with the status quo as is your perogative, but many includding myself have seen the central midfield position as desperatly needing to be enhanced. Not only should we take into account Elliott being injured but perhaps his departure. I honestly believe the best scenario is that we recruit to complement Elliott, I am in no doubt our prospects would improve drasticaly.

And I don't buy this they won't come to Bristol City oppinion. Many players will not for wages and other reasons, but I do not accept that there are not players avaiable that are not better than our current squad. I'm not saying its easy but if Reading can find Doyle for circa £150K, Wolves Kightly £25K ourselves finding Basso, Elliott for example there are players out there.

I'm more concerned at the positions being touted rather the lack of talent available.

[bh red]

I mean look at that Manchester City; they pull their finger out and look at the sucess they've got from it. We should play the market like them.

Yes, since their first season of major investment into the team, they have moved forward a step in that they qualified for the UEFA Cup.

good point, well made.........back to city however.

currently their are positions in the squad that have needed improving for the last 8/9 months and yet still don't look anything like being improved due to his inability to take a risk or show any ambition, this season Gary Johson has taken the club backwards........regardless of what has happened in the past, this season we are and are going backwards.........but some still see that at progress based on what he's done in the past.

seriously some posters such as yourself and some others make me really wonder......Gary could take us down within the next 5 years and yet people will still back his as the best thing since sliced bread just because in our first season in the championship the momentum of promotion got us into the play-off final.

[Riaz]

Yes, since their first season of major investment into the team, they have moved forward a step in that they qualified for the UEFA Cup.

good point, well made.........back to city however.

currently their are positions in the squad that have needed improving for the last 8/9 months and yet still don't look anything like being improved due to his inability to take a risk or show any ambition, this season Gary Johson has taken the club backwards........regardless of what has happened in the past, this season we are and are going backwards.........but some still see that at progress based on what he's done in the past.

seriously some posters such as yourself and some others make me really wonder......Gary could take us down within the next 5 years and yet people will still back his as the best thing since sliced bread just because in our first season in the championship the momentum of promotion got us into the play-off final.

Backwards? I think mid-table is actually establishing ourselves - With other clubs with alot bigger reputations - we were at some point going to find it difficult..... We will only gain a reputation by staying in this division. So mid-table is good for this season IMO.

I honestly think GJ will get us promoted eventually - all we need is patience.

[GrahamC]

I wonder if the release of these two means there are no other trialists left, it did say they these were amongst the trialists let go, but no information was given as to whether there were any that we still hadn't made a decision on.

[bh red]

Backwards? I think mid-table is actually establishing ourselves - With other clubs with alot bigger reputations - we were at some point going to find it difficult..... We will only gain a reputation by staying in this division. So mid-table is good for this season IMO.

I honestly think GJ will get us promoted eventually - all we need is patience.

I agree, midtalbe is decent.......

........however when the manager and chairman are saying pre-season that the aim for the season is to improve on the previous and go one step further.......based on the season to date.......have they done enough to back up their comment?

I wouldn't say so.

[cheese]

Yes, since their first season of major investment into the team, they have moved forward a step in that they qualified for the UEFA Cup.

good point, well made.........back to city however.

currently their are positions in the squad that have needed improving for the last 8/9 months and yet still don't look anything like being improved due to his inability to take a risk or show any ambition, this season Gary Johson has taken the club backwards........regardless of what has happened in the past, this season we are and are going backwards.........but some still see that at progress based on what he's done in the past.

seriously some posters such as yourself and some others make me really wonder......Gary could take us down within the next 5 years and yet people will still back his as the best thing since sliced bread just because in our first season in the championship the momentum of promotion got us into the play-off final.

Do you really expect progress to be a straight line?

[cheese]

I agree, midtalbe is decent.......

........however when the manager and chairman are saying pre-season that the aim for the season is to improve on the previous and go one step further.......based on the season to date.......have they done enough to back up their comment?

I wouldn't say so.

I can just imagine the reaction if they had said that this season's aim was mid-table!!

[bully]

I can just imagine the reaction if they had said that this season's aim was mid-table!!

Maybe Cheese but i'm not sure - most fans know that we overperformed last season and that the 'bigger' clubs wouldn't balls up en masse again, so mid table consolidation was pretty much what most people I spoke with thought was realistic, because we were never going to buy big in the summer - and that's no guarantee for success anyway.

I didn't believe SL about going one better, and I thought it was a pretty silly thing to say from an honourable, intelligent man.

I don't accept that we can't attract players, I can't believe that we aren't prepared to pay the going rate, so I have to conclude that we don't try as hard as some clubs to improve the squad - maybe good financial reasons none of us know about for that of course.

[chinapig]

Maybe Cheese but i'm not sure - most fans know that we overperformed last season and that the 'bigger' clubs wouldn't balls up en masse again, so mid table consolidation was pretty much what most people I spoke with thought was realistic, because we were never going to buy big in the summer - and that's no guarantee for success anyway.

I didn't believe SL about going one better, and I thought it was a pretty silly thing to say from an honourable, intelligent man.

I don't accept that we can't attract players, I can't believe that we aren't prepared to pay the going rate, so I have to conclude that we don't try as hard as some clubs to improve the squad - maybe good financial reasons none of us know about for that of course.

I suspect there isn't any single going rate as you describe it. For instance clubs getting parachute payments are likely to be paying more than clubs like us. That is bound to unbalance competition for players which means clubs like us have to try to find players with untapped potential, including from abroad. There is also likely to be a difference in approach between other clubs. For instance the Burnley Chief Executive recently said they run a debt of £5m a year to pay higher wages and hope to keep selling players to that value to cover it. I saw a quote from Warnock recently also in which he said he was still looking to offload Kuqi because he was on £14k a week. I do not believe Steve would take Burnley's approach. Nor do I think we would pay Kuqi that much (not that I would want him). Even if we are able and prepared to match another club's offer (as in the case of Brian Howard) players are likely to opt for what they see as the bigger club. These are some of the reasons I think why we can't pluck players out of the air as people would wish, especially the fantasy signings sometimes suggested on here at times.

[cheese]

Maybe Cheese but i'm not sure - most fans know that we overperformed last season and that the 'bigger' clubs wouldn't balls up en masse again, so mid table consolidation was pretty much what most people I spoke with thought was realistic, because we were never going to buy big in the summer - and that's no guarantee for success anyway.

I didn't believe SL about going one better, and I thought it was a pretty silly thing to say from an honourable, intelligent man.

I don't accept that we can't attract players, I can't believe that we aren't prepared to pay the going rate, so I have to conclude that we don't try as hard as some clubs to improve the squad - maybe good financial reasons none of us know about for that of course.

It does seem a surprising thing to say from an intelligent man as you say but I suspect he was carried away by the euphoria of last season - I know I was.

[Jungle Jim]

I agree, midtalbe is decent.......

........however when the manager and chairman are saying pre-season that the aim for the season is to improve on the previous and go one step further.......based on the season to date.......have they done enough to back up their comment?

I wouldn't say so.

I doubt in their pre-season comments there were many or any managers and chairmen who publicly stated they didn't expect this season to be as successful as the previous one. They would have been slaughtered for lack of ambition, fans would have been demanding refunds on their season tickets, players would have been quickly looking elsewhere, before you know it you're in a relegation scrap.

Despite all that, you only have to see what the table would look like if we'd turned home draws into wins to see that we're not that far away.

[bully]

Despite all that, you only have to see what the table would look like if we'd turned home draws into wins to see that we're not that far away.

True but I suspect a lot of teams could say that, and we did turn some defeats into draws of course, and on another day games we should have won but drew (ie Derby) we could actually have lost at the end.

No disgrace in dropping points against Wolves but we simply must start beating teams around us at the Gate I think.

[samo]

[Big Nose]

[CiderHider]

[bh red]

"Progress"? "Step forward"? What the hell are you talking about?

Under a different manager and ownership last season Man City JUST qualified for the UEFA cup via fairplay entry (finishing 9th).

The biggest amount they spent was just under £9 million (total season spending around £30 million, give or take a few million), however that signing (Bianci) failed spectacularly and ended the season moving back to Italy for free, after spending the second half of that season out on loan.

Only one of the other big signings (Elano) who was a success and is still at the club (Corluka was sold) is now sidelined and out of favour, unable to get into their starting 11 regularly.

The manager who achieved this "progress" was sacked, at great expense to the club (roughly £5 million), as he was considered to have underperformed (a position I'm sure you'd support...), despite delivering European football as he was asked to.

Since that "progress" you mentioned they've spent near £90 million, are 4 points from relegation (11 from europe, much worse than at this stage last season), went out of both the league and FA cups at the first hurdles to lower league opposition (unlike last season) and are riddled with internal strife thanks to a cavalier transfer/recruitment policy.

Unless they win the UEFA cup they are unlikely to be in Europe next year, although their wage bill/spending will rival those of the biggest teams in Europe.

What a "step forward"!

If you consider that "progress" you and I clearly have totally different ideas as to how a club needs to move forward, although your 'view' on mess that is Man City explains a lot about your posts...

What utter BS.

So Gary and SL saying our aim is promotion and spending a record fee on a player "lacks ambition"? You damn them for saying we are aiming high then slag them for not doing so. Make up your mind please and stop talking unsubstantiated and conflicting rubbish.

"Going backwards"? Explain in detail what you mean. Yes, our league position is worse and we may not make the playoffs, but we've brought in and retained young players who'll likely form the spine of the side for at least the next year or two and last time I looked we've actually improved over the last month or so, giving us every chance of a decent finish to the league season.

Anyway, YOU think the squad needs improving, it's not a fact like you present it but personal opinion.

And unless you are part of the set up you know as much as anyone else here about transfer business, so stop acting like you KNOW we are doing nothing.

You don't have a clue; you're just frustrated and annoyed City aren't appearing on the Sky Sport News ticker all the bloody time. ###### pathetic.

And some posters like you will continue to attack him (and it is an attack as you are sniping from a position based round ignorance and mistrust) on every possible issue, even if what he, Millen and SL are doing might be in the best long term interests of the club.

We are not on the path to relegation, even someone as blinkered as you can see this, you just choose to ignore it to further your ridiculously conflicted position, which doesn't actually hold up under any sort of scrutiny.

You need to make you mind up on some of the issues i.e. "GJ is too ambitious/GJ isn't ambitious enough" Which do you actually believe or are you just look for any available opportunity to paint Gary Johnson as some sort of manic Bond villain, hell-bent on riding the dying corpse of Bristol City Football Club down into non-league? If you honestly think he's just in it for the money and doesn't give a s**t about what happens to this club then you are more stupid than even your pathetic posts make you look...

Your posts are a load of nonsense; you damn GJ for not improving on last season, then say posters like me who accept that us not riding high right now isn't a sign of total collapse (which is how you look to present the present situation) are stupid. You slag our clubs transfer policy using conjecture about the personality of our manager that you cannot prove (and have no previous evidence to suggest is true) and somehow think your ignorance of our transfer business qualifies you to comment (negatively) on what is taking place behind closed doors.

You are basically impatient and, for some reason, clearly don't like Gary Johnson, and these two facts combine to provide us with the spectacular rubbish you produce on this forum.

I am totally done with moaning, never-pleased ‘fans’ like you who seem to only ever post hateful bile on this place and live to criticise the club/players/management, ###### sick of it.

I totally disagree.

squad does need improving.......I'd say a large amount of people on here would agree with that

as for man city, haven't really paid as much attention as you seem to have and I just look at the point, they weren't in europe, but Sven got them there? him being sacked just showed that Owners write the cheques but keep their noses out.

ah well, will have to agree to disagree....

[samo]

ah well, will have to agree to disagree....

I think that is about right.