garlicbread Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 It's no suprise to hear this. We can all remember when we were younger, football training was a warm up, some running, some half hearted ball work and then a game. ..and rolling a ball in dog muck and then getting a friend to head it...I bet they don't do that on the continent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 ..and rolling a ball in dog muck and then getting a friend to head it...I bet they don't do that on the continent! Ever got close enough to smell a Frenchman............I think they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 If passion won football games England would be good. It doesn't, they're not. Ability always beats passion in the long run. If you can get both then great, but the former is far more important. I'm not sure I completely agree with that argument. France had some great individuals but were essentially an average team (e.g. they didn't have any forwards) when they won the WC in 1998 (I think). South Korea were (and still are) a very average team when they got to the WC semis in their own country. I suggest the passion of playing in their own countries helps these teams to progress. I'm not sure that ability alone will win us anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 If passion won football games England would be good. It doesn't, they're not. Ability always beats passion in the long run. If you can get both then great, but the former is far more important. Good post, one I generally agree with. Look at Spain in the Euros for proof, great football, controlled, technical played with heads not hearts. Mind you, it would be great to see a strong presence from our academy in the 1st XI taking us up the League to the PL, but not at all likely in this day and age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I'm not sure I completely agree with that argument. France had some great individuals but were essentially an average team (e.g. they didn't have any forwards) when they won the WC in 1998 (I think). South Korea were (and still are) a very average team when they got to the WC semis in their own country. I suggest the passion of playing in their own countries helps these teams to progress. I'm not sure that ability alone will win us anything. France had fantastic individual players with great ability but they were also very well organised tactically, extremely fit and well prepared with very good leadership on the pitch. Substitute that ability for English passion leaving the rest the same and IMO they wouldn't have got past the second round. Ability alone won't win, I agree, you need the other ingredients but English passion all too often translates into running around like a headless chicken making two footed tackles and that doesn't actually win games even if it gets the fans excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiceRed Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 In an ideal world players should be bought in the following order: Bristolian; South West; English, British, European, Rest of the World Horfield. Moving back onto City, my ideal player priority would be: 1. Bristolian 2. Everywhere else I don't see why a player from London or Manchester would feel more passionate about City than someone from France or Cameroon. A Bristolian should do, though they haven't always. Equally, looking back a few years when there were a high number of local players in the team (Phillips, Coles, Hill, Doc, Carey, A Brown etc), we were one of the biggest underachievers in the league (which was of course the one below we're in now). And many of the players' attitudes and off-field behaviour was questioned also.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 France had fantastic individual players with great ability but they were also very well organised tactically, extremely fit and well prepared with very good leadership on the pitch. Substitute that ability for English passion leaving the rest the same and IMO they wouldn't have got past the second round. Ability alone won't win, I agree, you need the other ingredients but English passion all too often translates into running around like a headless chicken making two footed tackles and that doesn't actually win games even if it gets the fans excited. I think that is too simplistic. Wolves are managing to comfortably top our league without eight technically superior Eastern Europeans in the starting eleven every week. Manchester United have at least five English/British players starting for them every week and that includes the Champions League where the standard is far, far superior to International Football in my view. We have a core of players in this country who have both English passion AND ABILITY - nobody on this forum can convince me that Ferdinand, Terry, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney wouldn't be snapped up in the click of a finger by pretty much all the top European clubs if they were available - and not just because they run round with a contorted face exuding a bit of passion either. The challenge in this country is to produce more players of this standard and I think a big part of this challenge is to introduce more British youngsters into first team football. For example how do we expect James Wilson to progress when the moment there is an injury that could potentially give him his chance over the next couple of months the manager brings in a 26 year old lower league journeyman from S****horpe until the end of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 It's no suprise to hear this. We can all remember when we were younger, football training was a warm up, some running, some half hearted ball work and then a game. I watched a under 10's game last season and cringed. Parents don't help. I watched an Under 7's game last weekend and saw some absolutely cracking passing football by a team containing Mickey Bell's and Keith Millen's lads. And, incidentally, Millen (for obvious reasons) and Bell have very minimal input into the coaching of these lads. There are coaches out there at that level who are prepared to work with these boys and are prepared to risk losing games in order that the team learns to play proper football before they learn how to get results. My son also attends Bristol City's Junior Academy and there is a fantastic coach there called Raphael Burke (ex Man Utd Youth when Giggs, Scholes and the rest won the FA Youth Cup) who I have seen operating first hand and teaches these lads nothing but skills and keeping possession of the ball. He literally stops a game if anyone plays an aimless long ball and the goalkeepers are only allowed to throw the ball to feet. It is very easy to criticise based on watching a single game and claiming that the standard of youth football in this country has gone to the dogs - I reckon that there are plenty of young English lads with more than enough ability to play at a high standard of football - we just need to find, or perhaps import, a few more good coaches to help them in my view. Then perhaps there will be less need for clubs to sign on the journeyman international player who nobody has heard of but who comes cheap and can "do a job". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 We have a core of players in this country who have both English passion AND ABILITY - nobody on this forum can convince me that Ferdinand, Terry, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney wouldn't be snapped up in the click of a finger by pretty much all the top European clubs if they were available - and not just because they run round with a contorted face exuding a bit of passion either. Lampard undoubtably, Rooney maybe, the other three would struggle to get into a Serie B team. You are confusing good performances in the second rate Premiershit with decent football. When was the last time Gerrard played well for England? The best players in the world STILL play in Spain or Italy even when they are offered half-of-Cheshire a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Lampard undoubtably, Rooney maybe, the other three would struggle to get into a Serie B team. You are confusing good performances in the second rate Premiershit with decent football. When was the last time Gerrard played well for England? The best players in the world STILL play in Spain or Italy even when they are offered half-of-Cheshire a week. Gerrard, Terry and Ferdinand have all done it in the Champions League which is the highest standard of football there is. If you put them all on the open market as being available for transfer I would be willing to bet you my families house and every other possession that they would be receiving offers from TOP European clubs and not Serie B teams. the second rate Premier League you refer to seems to supply more Champions League semi-finalists and finalists than the far superior Serie A (that's a joke, right?) and La Liga (which is a good league I agree). It seems that you are confusing the fact that they earn decent money and you don't appear to like them with the assertion that they cannot play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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