will alwayes beleve Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 surely the way to play in front of your fans is a postive and eci ting. fans pay good money to watch matches. or is it about getting the job done and winning what do the fans want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 surely the way to play in front of your fans is a postive and eci ting. fans pay good money to watch matches. or is it about getting the job done and winning what do the fans want I thought we were the better team today,against a well organised and very good Championship team.So yes the formation works for me.Although I definitely look at it as a 3-5-2 not a 5-3-2.I would say its another string to our bow,so we can change things around if we want.I think Williams could really be key in the run in and this formation can not only get him more centrally,but have more license to hit the box.So it gets the thumbs up from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from Wales Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 surely the way to play in front of your fans is a postive and eci ting. fans pay good money to watch matches. or is it about getting the job done and winning what do the fans want If we can get it I'll take the win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 the difference for me is 5-3-2 and 3-5-2 is the players who are wing backs, in the 2 games I've seen the formation so far, I'd say it seems more 5-3-2, said after the Cov game, that with better wing-backs who are more attacking it would work even better however McAllsiter and Orr have done nothing to deserve dropping with the current player, I'd say good away from home, but not so much at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidNoble Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 You need energy for a wing-back. Maybe possibly look at Sproule perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Scotty Murray Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Yes it is when you dominate against the 4th best team in the league and completely play them off the park. I couldnt care less what formation we play if we play as well as that. People always have to have something to moan about. If Basso holds onto that shot we win, simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Yes it is when you dominate against the 4th best team in the league and completely play them off the park. I couldnt care less what formation we play if we play as well as that. People always have to have something to moan about. If Basso holds onto that shot we win, simple as that. a) we didn't dominate (there was equal shots on target, with similar possesion) b) we didn't win c) Basso didn't hold the shot, we didn't win d) what's sheffield utd got to do with it? it doesn't matter how well we play in we don't win, ala Derby..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 its really 3-5-2 ( 3 centre halfs) and i know what you mean but its not really a defensive formation. I like it, it makes us very hard to play through, gives the full backs license to bomb on ( not so much today) and gets the best out of a midfield missing Elliot and Skuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 a) we didn't dominate (there was equal shots on target, with similar possesion) b) we didn't win c) Basso didn't hold the shot, we didn't win d) what's sheffield utd got to do with it? it doesn't matter how well we play in we don't win, ala Derby..... We did dominate and should have won. My Cardiff work mates who came over also agreed that we dominated. The formation is quite flexible in that it can be 5 3 2 or 3 5 2. If we need to attack then GJ could always swap Mcallister with Mcindoe and Orr with Sproule. I like the formation, it is good to watch. Yesterday i think that we should have brought on Sproule which would have pegged Cardiff back instead of inviting them forward for the last 10 mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I was really worried that 5-3-2 (or 3-5-2 it really makes no difference) would be disastrous yesterday because Cardiff are so strong down the flanks. I was expecting to see Orr and McAllister completely overworked trying to deal with Parry and Whittingham but it simply didn't happen. Both were brilliant defensively. The only down side is that neither is brilliant in terms of creative play and distribution. I lost count of the number of times that Bradley in particular would do all the hard work in making a brilliant tackle, play his way out of trouble and then screw up a simple pass giving away possession again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Scotty Murray Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 a) we didn't dominate (there was equal shots on target, with similar possesion) b) we didn't win c) Basso didn't hold the shot, we didn't win d) what's sheffield utd got to do with it? it doesn't matter how well we play in we don't win, ala Derby..... a) we did - their only chances were off set pieces and had most of their shots on target in the last 10 minutes. Until we scored there was only one team in the game. b) Yes we didnt win, but we havn't won 24 of our 39 league games this season so your point is....? c) Yes you are correct, but my point was that the performance was great and the fact we lost was down to an unfortunate individual error by Basso rather than being anything whatsoever to do with the formation. d) Yes you are also very clever in pointing out that Sheff Utd are 4th in the league and you are probably about the only person in the country who thinks they are a better side than Cardiff. I am sorry but it does matter how you play, I know we need the results right now but the formation did work on Sunday. I cannot see how we would have played any better playing 4-4-2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 a) we did - their only chances were off set pieces and had most of their shots on target in the last 10 minutes. Until we scored there was only one team in the game. doesn't matter, they still had equal chances ans similar possesion, doesn't matter when they take them, b) Yes we didnt win, but we havn't won 24 of our 39 league games this season so your point is....? the point is it's no good say, if this or if that, we would have won, WE DIDN'T which is the point c) Yes you are correct, but my point was that the performance was great and the fact we lost was down to an unfortunate individual error by Basso rather than being anything whatsoever to do with the formation. maybe, maybe not, but in the 3 games since we switched formations, we may have dominated the 3, but it doesn't really matter when we have only won 1 of them. d) Yes you are also very clever in pointing out that Sheff Utd are 4th in the league and you are probably about the only person in the country who thinks they are a better side than Cardiff. I haven't seen either team enough to judge, and neither have you I'd imagine. besides I haven't said who is better either way? I am sorry but it does matter how you play, I know we need the results right now but the formation did work on Sunday. I cannot see how we would have played any better playing 4-4-2? exactly which was my point, it doesn't matter how we play, RESULTS are what matters, but overall I've no idea what your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 exactly which was my point, it doesn't matter how we play, RESULTS are what matters, but overall I've no idea what your point is? So how come you frequently refer to the Sheffield United away game last season and say how well we played with Carle instead of Lee Johnson? We lost that game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 So how come you frequently refer to the Sheffield United away game last season and say how well we played with Carle instead of Lee Johnson? We lost that game too. yes, but it's how you follow it up, and from that game we played well, but got nothing from the game, BUT we carried the form on and played well in the remaining games, similarly, we played well at Derby when changing formation and then followed up with the excellent Coventry result, but haven't kept the momentum going long enough when we seriously need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 yes, but it's how you follow it up, and from that game we played well, but got nothing from the game, BUT we carried the form on and played well in the remaining games, similarly, we played well at Derby when changing formation and then followed up with the excellent Coventry result, but haven't kept the momentum going long enough when we seriously need to. Oh right. To the untrained eye it looked like you were randomly changing your argument to suit. Thanks for clarifying. For what it's worth, I thought the performance against Cardiff was perfectly acceptable, other than we didn't score a second when on top and a silly error cost us the 3 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh right. To the untrained eye it looked like you were randomly changing your argument to suit. Thanks for clarifying. For what it's worth, I thought the performance against Cardiff was perfectly acceptable, other than we didn't score a second when on top and a silly error cost us the 3 points. Not at all, you can take positives from any dropped points, if you feel you've given your all and have impressed and most importantly gone into the in the next game and followed it up, last season against Sheff, we did and kept doing it through to the play-offs, unfortunately, we've not had the same run since derby which is a shame, but no neede to be downhearted about. My main point though was that thing is some people felt that we dominated the game, and more than deserved 3 points, but I thought it was fairly even game against a very good team, that some people seem totally dismissive of, just because they were cardiff, but they were the best cardiff side we've played since....well in a VERY long time. agreed we didn't score a second to kill the team off, but that's been something that's been common since Johnson took over, majority of the time it's worked and we've walked off with a 1-0win, but there is always going to be games when it doesn't work out that way especially against decent sides. Yesterday was one of them days, it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Not at all, you can take positives from any dropped points, if you feel you've given your all and have impressed and most importantly gone into the in the next game and followed it up, last season against Sheff, we did and kept doing it through to the play-offs, unfortunately, we've not had the same run since derby which is a shame, but no neede to be downhearted about. My main point though was that thing is some people felt that we dominated the game, and more than deserved 3 points, but I thought it was fairly even game against a very good team, that some people seem totally dismissive of, just because they were cardiff, but they were the best cardiff side we've played since....well in a VERY long time. agreed we didn't score a second to kill the team off, but that's been something that's been common since Johnson took over, majority of the time it's worked and we've walked off with a 1-0win, but there is always going to be games when it doesn't work out that way especially against decent sides. Yesterday was one of them days, it happens. I didn't think Cardiff were a good team at all (on the day). I barely recall them winning a challenge and only seemed to get possession when we handed it to them. The worst example being McAllister in the final three minutes, which lead to their goal. I didn't see it as even at all, and have seen us play worse against better teams and win. If we could have added a bit more decisiveness in front of goal when a team is clearly there for the taking, then I think we'd have run out comfortable winners. I was amazed that Dave Jones thought a draw was about right, because I certainly didn't, and I couldn't even see where a goal was going to come from for them (unless a freekick flew in) until Basso's error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I didn't think Cardiff were a good team at all (on the day). I barely recall them winning a challenge and only seemed to get possession when we handed it to them. The worst example being McAllister in the final three minutes, which lead to their goal. I didn't see it as even at all, and have seen us play worse against better teams and win. If we could have added a bit more decisiveness in front of goal when a team is clearly there for the taking, then I think we'd have run out comfortable winners. I was amazed that Dave Jones thought a draw was about right, because I certainly didn't, and I couldn't even see where a goal was going to come from for them (unless a freekick flew in) until Basso's error. I was rather stunned when he said that aswell, i suppose you cant expect anyhing else from opposing managers to be honest. The only way they were going to score was either from a wonder strike or a mistake from us. Upfront they looked toothless which rather suprised me as they certainly had the firepower in Mccormack, Johnson and Chopra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I didn't think Cardiff were a good team at all (on the day). I barely recall them winning a challenge and only seemed to get possession when we handed it to them. The worst example being McAllister in the final three minutes, which lead to their goal. I didn't see it as even at all, and have seen us play worse against better teams and win. If we could have added a bit more decisiveness in front of goal when a team is clearly there for the taking, then I think we'd have run out comfortable winners. I was amazed that Dave Jones thought a draw was about right, because I certainly didn't, and I couldn't even see where a goal was going to come from for them (unless a freekick flew in) until Basso's error. again that's the story our us since Gary took over, if we had that we'd be higher in the league without doubt, but with Maynard improving all the time, next season should be VERY interesting if the right 1 or 2 signings are made in the summer. agree, most of their possession we handed to them, but I'm not going to go there. But when they did have it they did use it well, hence their number of shots, if Chorpa hadn't had a off day, we could have been a couple down in the first 20mins. either way, I've looked at it as a good point gained, (despite how we dropped 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will alwayes beleve Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 You need energy for a wing-back. Maybe possibly look at Sproule perhaps? most defonatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 It couldn't have been any more obvious that we were playing 3-5-2 not 5-3-2. The fact that Orr and McAllister were 30 yards further up the park than usual gave that away. And because of this we have to play the extra centre half to compensate for the fact that Orr/McAllister won't be coming round the back to cover the middle two in a back four as they normally do. Despite all of GJ's rhetoric I actually think he is looking ahead to next season IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP and this is the formation he will use against some of the poorer teams who play one up top and "park the coach" in the penalty area. This system also allowed Carey to make use of a lot of possession going forward (which also allows our central midfield to push up ten to twenty yards into danger areas). And you have to remember that whatever we think about them as a club Cardiff are a very decent side at this level and we more than gave them a game using this system. The 3-5-2 can also be tweaked to play two wingers out wide rather than two full backs when circumstances dictate or one winger and one full back. And we always have the option of 5-3-2 when holding onto a lead or a point, particularly away from home. With Williams and Skuse beginning to look the part and Elliott returning from injury and perhaps a signing in the summer to compete for/take Lee Johnson's place I think our midfield department, the weakest area of our team by a mile since we returned to this league, could make decent and necessary strides next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 surely the way to play in front of your fans is a postive and eci ting. fans pay good money to watch matches. or is it about getting the job done and winning what do the fans want IMO we were positive for most of the game.We sat back a little after the goal and ultimately paid the price. And it was as exciting as a lot of games where we have lined up 4-4-2. If we play as well against all teams then i for one wont be asking for my money back! It may have sliped your mind but Cardiff are a pretty decent team! Just out of interest how do you think we could have been more positive and made it more exciting without abandoning our shape and risk going in a few goals down at halt time as we have done a number of times this season????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh red Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 It couldn't have been any more obvious that we were playing 3-5-2 not 5-3-2. The fact that Orr and McAllister were 30 yards further up the park than usual gave that away. And because of this we have to play the extra centre half to compensate for the fact that Orr/McAllister won't be coming round the back to cover the middle two in a back four as they normally do. Despite all of GJ's rhetoric I actually think he is looking ahead to next season IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP and this is the formation he will use against some of the poorer teams who play one up top and "park the coach" in the penalty area. This system also allowed Carey to make use of a lot of possession going forward (which also allows our central midfield to push up ten to twenty yards into danger areas). And you have to remember that whatever we think about them as a club Cardiff are a very decent side at this level and we more than gave them a game using this system. The 3-5-2 can also be tweaked to play two wingers out wide rather than two full backs when circumstances dictate or one winger and one full back. And we always have the option of 5-3-2 when holding onto a lead or a point, particularly away from home. With Williams and Skuse beginning to look the part and Elliott returning from injury and perhaps a signing in the summer to compete for/take Lee Johnson's place I think our midfield department, the weakest area of our team by a mile since we returned to this league, could make decent and necessary strides next season. good in theory, however the problem is that in 2 of the 3 games since we have switched and had the option of 5 at the back, we've let in goals that have cost us points at Derby and Sunday. also, Brum away, defensively we were fine, but we brought on McCombe having 5 at the back and then also conceded. daft as it sounds we almost seem more solid at the back with 4, instead of 5. It's almost like are so used to having 4 at the back, the extra man back there almost seems to be causing extra problems, when you look at the possible 4 points we have dropped due to over defending with 5 at the back, it's not great reading, which is shame because it seems an attacking formation, IF we have the right options in the midfield and forwards. but for me the biggest problem is the wing back, it's fine if they are attacking enough, but for FAR too many times on sunday we just played so narrow with no options out wide at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindjuicer Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I didn't think Cardiff were a good team at all (on the day). Yes, apart from defensively where they were very good. I barely recall them winning a challenge and only seemed to get possession when we handed it to them. They got possession by taking the ball off McIndoe a lot. If we could have added a bit more decisiveness in front of goal when a team is clearly there for the taking, then I think we'd have run out comfortable winners. I don't remember any time we got in front of goal apart from Maynard's goal and a couple of goal line scrambles. We had nothing down the right wing, tried almost nothing down the middle and almost everything went to double-marked McIndoe. So yes I think 5-3-2 limited our options but we didn't use the ones we had anyway. I was amazed that Dave Jones thought a draw was about right, because I certainly didn't, and I couldn't even see where a goal was going to come from for them (unless a freekick flew in) until Basso's error. Spot on here. They had fewer attacks and looked mostly impotent when doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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