Elliott - Why Didnt He Start?

[NickJ]

Elliot came on at QPR two weeks ago, has played 2 reserve games since, and presumably trained himself back to fitness.

So, why was he sub yesterday?

Needs games to get fit? Which is chicken and egg, particularly if brought on for 2 minutes.

Not considered first choice any more?

GJ couldnt make up his mind who to leave out LJ or Skuuuuse?

Or what?

And what is it about any creative, skilful centre midfield player, Williams being the latest, why do they always seem to end up on the periphery? Yes Williams has been injured but GJ himself said last week he was now fit.

If you're fit enough to be on the bench, you're fit enough to start, otherwise what if LJ or Skuse were injured in the first minute, what are we going to say, "no cant bring Elliot or Williams on, they're not fit enough for a whole game?"

Yesterday was a win at all costs game, the formation, team selection and substitutions were uninspiring.

That's not hindsight, my team last week would have had Skuse, Elliot and Williams all starting, with Sproule as an impact sub.

Couldnt understand it.

[SimplyRed]

Why skirt around the issue?

Lee Johnson is the first name on the team sheet every week, regardless of his form or value to the team.

Until that issue is addressed, midfielders will come and go and we will never have a midfield capable of taking us to the next level.

Isn't that what you really wanted to say?

It's certainly what I believe.

[DavidNoble]

Why skirt around the issue?

Lee Johnson is the first name on the team sheet every week, regardless of his form or value to the team.

Until that issue is addressed, midfielders will come and go and we will never have a midfield capable of taking us to the next level.

Isn't that what you really wanted to say?

It's certainly what I believe.

Here we go............

[dezgimed]

Why skirt around the issue?

Lee Johnson is the first name on the team sheet every week, regardless of his form or value to the team.

Until that issue is addressed, midfielders will come and go and we will never have a midfield capable of taking us to the next level.

Isn't that what you really wanted to say?

It's certainly what I believe.

Lee did not play well, Williams did well when he came on.

Who you think will play against Forest next week?

[dezgimed]

Here we go............

Whats your opinion on it Alfi?

Should Williams have started, in place of who if so?

[Godzilla]

Lee did not play well, Williams did well when he came on.

Who you think will play against Forest next week?

I thought Lee Johnson had an average to decent game, while the first thing Williams did when he came on was volley a crossfield pass straight out of play (and nowhere near the intended target).

Incidently, I think Williams is a quality player and provides that consistent mobility and end product that Noble, for example, couldn't. Personally I'd have him in from the start too.

But I don't think the above comment is true, unless you're just seeing what you want to see. You're just trying to make a point.

[BCFC_Dan]

Lee did not play well, Williams did well when he came on.

Who you think will play against Forest next week?

Eh? Lee played perfectly well for almost the entire game before he was subbed. Williams came on and gave the ball away dangerously with a simply ludicrous pass. If Johnson had played that pass he'd be getting slaughtered on here.

[NickJ]

Why skirt around the issue?

Lee Johnson is the first name on the team sheet every week, regardless of his form or value to the team.

Until that issue is addressed, midfielders will come and go and we will never have a midfield capable of taking us to the next level.

Isn't that what you really wanted to say?

It's certainly what I believe.

Not skirting around the issue - Williams, Elliot and Skuse all starting doesnt leave room for LJ, which I also said on a thread last week.

But its not so much a case of who shouldnt have played, more so who should have.

On to the defence - Carey is presumably a certainty to come back in against Forest, McCombe is useful when teams have a big forward, but no more. Carey would have played Parkin as well yesterday, but he can play football too. McCombe isnt good enough for this division.

And the goal - why is GJ blaming Adebola - he was following the scorer's run, but McCallister got in his way.

[dezgimed]

Godzilla/Dan, its well known on here I expect alot from Lee to justify his place, so I probably expect alot more than you both.

I didnt think he did anything of note, so was average/poor. He wasnt alone though to be fair, alot of them were poor yesterday.

I remember Williams misplacing a few passes, but going forward he was sharp and played to feet and got us moving a bit more than we had all game.

[screech]

I thought Lee Johnson had an average to decent game, while the first thing Williams did when he came on was volley a crossfield pass straight out of play (and nowhere near the intended target).

Incidently, I think Williams is a quality player and provides that consistent mobility and end product that Noble, for example, couldn't. Personally I'd have him in from the start too.

But I don't think the above comment is true, unless you're just seeing what you want to see. You're just trying to make a point.

So when do you drop Lee Johnson then? He has scored 2?? goals all season and had how many assists, 4 is it?? For practically an ever present in the squad as our creative midfielder it's nowhere near good enough.

[BCFC_Dan]

Godzilla/Dan, its well known on here I expect alot from Lee to justify his place, so I probably expect alot more than you both.

I didnt think he did anything of note, so was average/poor. He wasnt alone though to be fair, alot of them were poor yesterday.

I remember Williams misplacing a few passes, but going forward he was sharp and played to feet and got us moving a bit more than we had all game.

It would seem I probably expect less than you and quite a few others on here in general. I thought the whole team was decent yesterday and Lee was an important part of the performance. What I saw was a good Championship game - not top class in terms of technical ability but very exciting and dynamic.

I saw both Lee and Cole Skuse make some good forward passes into the feet of the strikers. I also saw some good movement with McIndoe and Sproule providing outlets and setting up decent chances.

[Donkeeebles]

Godzilla/Dan, its well known on here I expect alot from Lee to justify his place, so I probably expect alot more than you both.

I didnt think he did anything of note, so was average/poor. He wasnt alone though to be fair, alot of them were poor yesterday.

I remember Williams misplacing a few passes, but going forward he was sharp and played to feet and got us moving a bit more than we had all game.

Expecting more from Lj than others to justify his place if that is what you do is hardly fair and personally for me makes your opinion a complete waste of time because it's biased.(yes i know you don't give a monkeys about that either before you say it)

IMO Lj was the best of the 4 starting midfielders. He played some really nice balls down the flanks on a couple of occasions and made plenty of short clevers passes as well. I wouldnt start him before Elliott or Williams but i am prepared to keep an open mind and give him credit when he deserves it. It's just a shame others like you cant!!!

[Economou]

Expecting more from Lj than others to justify his place if that is what you do is hardly fair and personally for me makes your opinion a complete waste of time because it's biased.(yes i know you don't give a monkeys about that either before you say it)

IMO Lj was the best of the 4 starting midfielders. He played some really nice balls down the flanks on a couple of occasions and made plenty of short clevers passes as well. I wouldnt start him before Elliott or Williams but i am prepared to keep an open mind and give him credit when he deserves it. It's just a shame others like you cant!!!

I agree, LJ was good in combination with Skuse/Sproule, especially first half down the right. Yet again we didn't make the most of openings created.

[SimplyRed]

Not skirting around the issue - Williams, Elliot and Skuse all starting doesnt leave room for LJ, which I also said on a thread last week.

But its not so much a case of who shouldnt have played, more so who should have.

On to the defence - Carey is presumably a certainty to come back in against Forest, McCombe is useful when teams have a big forward, but no more. Carey would have played Parkin as well yesterday, but he can play football too. McCombe isnt good enough for this division.

And the goal - why is GJ blaming Adebola - he was following the scorer's run, but McCallister got in his way.

Interesting that you mention Carey.

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought Basso had a bit of a wobbly game yesterday. To me, that means he doesn't have much confidence in the people in front of him - more specifically, McCombe.

I think he's a completely confident and consistent keeper when Carey is in front of him - speaks volumes for Carey. It'll be good to see him back. Apart from Fontaine, who for me grows with every game, the defence looked a little shakey yesterday.

As for the LJ saga, I'm firmly of the opinion that Elliott, Skuse and Williams should be first choice midfielders. Johnson is - and many of LJ's fans are - blinkered.

[Drew Peacock]

especially first half down the right. Yet again we didn't make the most of openings created.

No we didn't, because too often it grinds to a halt with a woeful lump in by Orr.

Cracking defender (usually, although wtf was he thinking of yesterday), awful going forward.

He breaks up play on the right, is a great outlet going forward, then - wham, bam, hoof it hopefully over. Sproule is little better at crossing and so although we create alot down the right not enough comes of it.

Replace the pair of them in the summer.

[dezgimed]

Expecting more from Lj than others to justify his place if that is what you do is hardly fair and personally for me makes your opinion a complete waste of time because it's biased.(yes i know you don't give a monkeys about that either before you say it)

IMO Lj was the best of the 4 starting midfielders. He played some really nice balls down the flanks on a couple of occasions and made plenty of short clevers passes as well. I wouldnt start him before Elliott or Williams but i am prepared to keep an open mind and give him credit when he deserves it. It's just a shame others like you cant!!!

When I say more, I mean I want him to be at the top of his game, because its only then that I feel his place is warranted because IMO he isnt up to the standard of Williams for example.

I do give him credit so you can stop all that crap. You've just said you wouldnt start him before the other 2, so grow some balls and say why you think so then.

[Rowley Birkin]

It's getting ridiculous now that G.J. seems to completely ignore, or refuse to try any other midfield combination at the expense of Lee.

For God's sake, for the remaining games why not try to freshen it up by starting Marvin and Gavin in the middle, to try and improve things, as it's stagnating into farcical proportions ?

How does a player forget his shin pads too ?!

I think it'd be better all round for everyone if Lee moved on, as we need more than he brings to the table if we are to go forward, and it's no longer any good avoiding the issue.

I wish G.J. when he makes these sort of decisions, like the substitutions, to come out and explain his thinking, as 16,000 fans come away scratching their heads in disbelief.

Let's hope G.J. is a big enough man to make the changes the majority are crying out for.

[dezgimed]

It's getting ridiculous now that G.J. seems to completely ignore, or refuse to try any other midfield combination at the expense of Lee.

For God's sake, for the remaining games why not try to freshen it up by starting Marvin and Gavin in the middle, to try and improve things, as it's stagnating into farcical proportions ?

How does a player forget his shin pads too ?!

I think it'd be better all round for everyone if Lee moved on, as we need more than he brings to the table if we are to go forward, and it's no longer any good avoiding the issue.

I wish G.J. when he makes these sort of decisions, like the substitutions, to come out and explain his thinking, as 16,000 fans come away scratching their heads in disbelief.

Let's hope G.J. is a big enough man to make the changes the majority are crying out for.

I think Gav might prefer to play without them, for sake of touch/control or something.

[SimplyRed]

I think Gav might prefer to play without them, for sake of touch/control or something.

All well and good, but as a pro he should be aware that the law requires shinguards to be worn.

The episode was a bit embarrassing.

[cheese]

It's getting ridiculous now that G.J. seems to completely ignore, or refuse to try any other midfield combination at the expense of Lee.

For God's sake, for the remaining games why not try to freshen it up by starting Marvin and Gavin in the middle, to try and improve things, as it's stagnating into farcical proportions ?

How does a player forget his shin pads too ?!

I think it'd be better all round for everyone if Lee moved on, as we need more than he brings to the table if we are to go forward, and it's no longer any good avoiding the issue.

I wish G.J. when he makes these sort of decisions, like the substitutions, to come out and explain his thinking, as 16,000 fans come away scratching their heads in disbelief.

Let's hope G.J. is a big enough man to make the changes the majority are crying out for.

I would hope GJ is a big enough man to do what he thinks is right rather than listen to an hysterical, overeacting mob to try and please them.

[Tunley Legend]

Whilst I appreciate that Lee Johnson has done a job for us and always gives his best I also think that he is a player we should be looking to replace, if not in the short to medium term the definitely in the longer term. Whenever we come up against the better sides at this level we get totally outplayed in midfield - it would seem obvious to me that this is the area of our team that needs looking at most urgently. We all know that Elliott can cut the mustard at this level - we just need someone alongside him who can do the required job especially in a 4-4-2. I think that there are half a dozen players in our side who will need to be moved on over the next season or two as we look to go up a notch at this level and I honestly believe that LJ is one of them. Nothing personal against the man himself and no issue on who he is related to - just my opinion on him as a footballer.

[Chivs]

Interesting that you mention Carey.

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought Basso had a bit of a wobbly game yesterday. To me, that means he doesn't have much confidence in the people in front of him - more specifically, McCombe.

I think he's a completely confident and consistent keeper when Carey is in front of him - speaks volumes for Carey. It'll be good to see him back. Apart from Fontaine, who for me grows with every game, the defence looked a little shakey yesterday.

As for the LJ saga, I'm firmly of the opinion that Elliott, Skuse and Williams should be first choice midfielders. Johnson is - and many of LJ's fans are - blinkered.

Do you have any examples to back up your opinions?

"Basso had a bit of a wobbly game..." - how so? He saved everything except the corner which he had no chance with.

"..the defence looked a little shakey..." - how so? They played against a good Preston side, who came to win, and hardly gave up a chance.

"Johnson is ... blinkered" - you forgot to mention that many of his detractors are too.

[redrebel]

Here we go............

Yes here we go because now we have our best midfield players fit , we have the spectacle of the poorest one of the four of Johnson, Elliott, Williams and Skuse always being forst choice however good or bad he is playing.Until GJ confronts this issue it will never go away and will always dog the team and upset many fans, who will see our best midfield players eventually leave if they play second fiddle to a lesser player.

It's simple really if LJ is playing better than the others then he plays if not he on the bench like every one else in the squad.I have no issue with Lee Johnson , only when his prescence prevents players in better form and greater ability playing.

It is the only weakness I can see in GJ but is one that is bound to cause more trouble as time goes on

[Economou]

Yes here we go because now we have our best midfield players fit , we have the spectacle of the poorest one of the four of Johnson, Elliott, Williams and Skuse always being forst choice however good or bad he is playing.Until GJ confronts this issue it will never go away and will always dog the team and upset many fans, who will see our best midfield players eventually leave if they play second fiddle to a lesser player.

It's simple really if LJ is playing better than the others then he plays if not he on the bench like every one else in the squad.I have no issue with Lee Johnson , only when his prescence prevents players in better form and greater ability playing.

It is the only weakness I can see in GJ but is one that is bound to cause more trouble as time goes on

I'm sure it's been posted elsewhere occasionally how LJ makes the team tick therefore no issue to confront in my opinion. Presumably Marv & Gav didn't start cos they weren't match fit.

[I BELIEVE]

I think Gav might prefer to play without them, for sake of touch/control or something.

I have a feeling that Gav actually plays without shinpads because i was flicking through the gallaries on bcfc and he doesn't appear to wear shin pads! :noexpression:

[rockin-robin]

Yes here we go because now we have our best midfield players fit , we have the spectacle of the poorest one of the four of Johnson, Elliott, Williams and Skuse always being forst choice however good or bad he is playing.Until GJ confronts this issue it will never go away and will always dog the team and upset many fans, who will see our best midfield players eventually leave if they play second fiddle to a lesser player.

It's simple really if LJ is playing better than the others then he plays if not he on the bench like every one else in the squad.I have no issue with Lee Johnson , only when his prescence prevents players in better form and greater ability playing.

It is the only weakness I can see in GJ but is one that is bound to cause more trouble as time goes on

Exactly....and this whole LJ debacle is beginning to become a bit silly and I fear it will affect City's progression in the long run.

For me, it's starting to affect my enjoyment of watching the City, as much of the game is spent watching (and praying) that LJ doesn't do something to add fuel to the fire and therefore enable people to get on his backs during the game....this I hasten might add, has been brought about by GJ's constant inclusion of him in the team and not LJ's fault.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think LJ is a good player who plays his part in the team, but he is also someone who doesn't warrant automatic selection week in week out. And, more importantly, why do other players get played out of position to accommodate him? If LJ is so important to the team, why doesn't GJ stick LJ out on the right from the start of games like he has done with various other central midfielders?

Unfortunately, and IMO, as long as GJ is at the club, this will be the case. Last year was our chance to make it to the Prem, and until GJ realises that the personnel in the midfield needs strengthening, then that will be our only chance for quite a while.

[Mr Mosquito]

Why skirt around the issue?

Lee Johnson is the first name on the team sheet every week, regardless of his form or value to the team.

Until that issue is addressed, midfielders will come and go and we will never have a midfield capable of taking us to the next level.

Isn't that what you really wanted to say?

It's certainly what I believe.

No matter what we write on here, Lee Johnson will always be the first choice in our central midfield. We really needed Marvin Elliott on the field against Preston for longer than the couple of minutes he was given when he replaced Lee Johnson at the end of the game. Yet another home draw was the result - the story of our home form this season.

[DavidNoble]

Whats your opinion on it Alfi?

Should Williams have started, in place of who if so?

I think without LJ this season we haven't won but i would say i think Gav is better.

I think GJ needs to say to the central midfield: "Skuse, Marv and Gav. Your playing the next ten games regardless". Just to give them confidence to make mistakes and not worry that their place will be taken immediately.

Perhaps the same for the strikers.

Would love to try without LJ its just everyone knows where this is going so what is the point?

[RedM]

Lee did not play well, Williams did well when he came on.

Who you think will play against Forest next week?

I reckon that even I could play 'well' if I knew I only had to last 6 minutes!!!

I thought the whole feeling yesterday was almost like when the players return from their summer break, their minds not totally on the job and their bodies not up to match fitness yet. I wouldn't like to think that a team of Gary's has switched off but the break doesn't seem to have done them any favours, especially as the players we wanted to get fit seemingly weren't?

I think with the beauty of hindsight Gary may have been overly loyal to some players after what they achieved last season, but somehow they weren't able to pay back what he deserves.

[Donkeeebles]

When I say more, I mean I want him to be at the top of his game, because its only then that I feel his place is warranted because IMO he isnt up to the standard of Williams for example.

I do give him credit so you can stop all that crap. You've just said you wouldnt start him before the other 2, so grow some balls and say why you think so then.

Well if you had said that in the first place it wouldnt have been a problem. Saying you expect more from him than others to me says he has to play better than everybody else to warrant his place.

Actually thinking about it i was daft to think that was what it meant. I should have realised it didnt mean that.

Is posting what you think on here your ideal of having balls then is it????? Well i am afraid i just aint as brave as you then!!!!!