bully Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Gary has bought in loans this year to backup the squad its obvious you would prefer he bought in players that were better then what we have but its not like there is one on every corner waiting to be picked up, there are probably only 3 to 5 players good enough to replace 1st teamers loaned from the prem every year and there are 24 clubs that are trying to get them so its inevitable that we will miss out on these players because these players go to clubs that are closest to them and/or are willing to pay the most, since we are not close to many prem clubs and haven't got the finances to match the bigger clubs in this league I think realistically were only ever going to get the backup type player unless Gary can do an outstanding job of persuasion. Forest had a young man called Chris Gunter playing yesterday - appears that even a shite team in the drop zone 150 miles away from the kids home club can attract a young Prem international. But we can't/wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 You have the wrong end of the stick. I don't believe any of the players you mention were available on loan. I equally don't believe any of them were of the quality we should be seeking on loan deals to really make a difference. I am pretty sure that loan deals can be structured however each club wishes ie no callback provisions - otherwise I agree its pointless unless you are at the sharp end of the season and are prepared to take the risk. I find your use of numbers of available players interesting - what do you base that on? Equally, your comment about players choosing to stay close to home is equally without foundation - I wish Webster had stayed in Scotland but it clearly didn't bother him, and I was unaware of Chopra or Routledge living close to Cardiff for example. If we aren't prepared to pay the going rate (whatever that is) then perhaps the club could let us know - it may well be down to finance why we don't go for players who can add value to the squad. Be nice to know. Presumably the same place you got your figures on wages and costs - he guessed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Presumably the same place you got your figures on wages and costs - he guessed? I think guessing a youngster at a Prem club was earning about £10k per week has a bit more substance than saying there are 3 or 4 players available? Do you agree with Pezo then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I think guessing a youngster at a Prem club was earning about £10k per week has a bit more substance than saying there are 3 or 4 players available? Do you agree with Pezo then? I think his figures are likely to be as accurate as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Players to keep that could get us out of this division..that usually start williams elliot sproule maynard carey orr fontaine basso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I think his figures are likely to be as accurate as yours. Only 3-5 players loaned out by Prem clubs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 The problem is the time he and his scouts spend looking for a loan could be spent looking for a permanent addition to the squad. We already saw what happened when GJ spent all his time looking for a forward only to miss out on him and in the end sign Maynard. GJ doesnt have time to look for both loans and signings in my opinion because he is very thorough in picking his players. I still don't get the advantage of bringing in a loan if you think the player is going to be a good loan. It would surely be better to look for a permanent signing? You bring in the best player to do the job, whether its loan signings or permanently. A player who may be good enough to get us up to the Premier League, may not necessarily be good enough to keep us there. By getting to the Prem, it opens up a whole new market for a team. Frazier Campbell for example, was never going to sign for Hull...but helped get them to the Prem. By getting to the prem, it has enabled them to sign players they would never have been able tio sign if they had stayed in the Championship. Bullard, Geovanni etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Only 3-5 players loaned out by Prem clubs?? £10k per week for prem. loan signings?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 IMO GJs blind loyalty to this group of players and his unwillingness to give premier league/our youth a chance will eventually be his downfall. We are not far away from being a constistant top 6 side and it would only take around 3 or 4 players and a change in tactics and we would be up there challenging for the top 2 year in, year out. We have proved in the last 2 seasons that we can be a top 10 side but to take that next step up we need reasonably big changes, this current group have proved that when the pressure is on they bottle it BIG TIME. No one is perfect and GJ has to realise that and change his attitude, if he doesn't then eventually it will cost us our Championship status. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcmike Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 IMO GJs blind loyalty to this group of players and his unwillingness to give premier league/our youth a chance will eventually be his downfall. We are not far away from being a constistant top 6 side and it would only take around 3 or 4 players and a change in tactics and we would be up there challenging for the top 2 year in, year out. We have proved in the last 2 seasons that we can be a top 10 side but to take that next step up we need reasonably big changes, this current group have proved that when the pressure is on they bottle it BIG TIME. No one is perfect and GJ has to realise that and change his attitude, if he doesn't then eventually it will cost us our Championship status. BCAGFC Excellent post..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 IMO GJs blind loyalty to this group of players and his unwillingness to give premier league/our youth a chance will eventually be his downfall. We are not far away from being a constistant top 6 side and it would only take around 3 or 4 players and a change in tactics and we would be up there challenging for the top 2 year in, year out. We have proved in the last 2 seasons that we can be a top 10 side but to take that next step up we need reasonably big changes, this current group have proved that when the pressure is on they bottle it BIG TIME. No one is perfect and GJ has to realise that and change his attitude, if he doesn't then eventually it will cost us our Championship status. BCAGFC I'm interested in this "consistent" top 6 side theory. Which clubs in the CCC are a consistent top 6 side. Of the sides that made the play-offs last season we are the highest placed this season. Can't remember from the season before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 IMO GJs blind loyalty to this group of players and his unwillingness to give premier league/our youth a chance will eventually be his downfall. We are not far away from being a constistant top 6 side and it would only take around 3 or 4 players and a change in tactics and we would be up there challenging for the top 2 year in, year out. We have proved in the last 2 seasons that we can be a top 10 side but to take that next step up we need reasonably big changes, this current group have proved that when the pressure is on they bottle it BIG TIME. No one is perfect and GJ has to realise that and change his attitude, if he doesn't then eventually it will cost us our Championship status. BCAGFC If BS3 agrees with it then it's a rubbish post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 £10k per week for prem. loan signings?? I'm talking about youngsters as you well know. Such players might be on less than £10k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Good God, why get rid of the manager who,s taken us to our highest position and status for years. Wardy was the last one who managed it, and the team was assembled by Joe Jordan in the main anyway. It wasnt good enough to survive, this one already has TWICE, and got us promoted once, and a Pray Off final into the bargain. Granted some of the the team really aint good enough now, but I'm reasonably sure GJ will address the issue before next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'm talking about youngsters as you well know. Such players might be on less than £10k. Or they may be on more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Or they may be on more. Deloittes said that the average wage for a Prem player in the 2007/08 season was £1.1m per annum. That's £21k per week for an established player. In 2006 (long time ago of course) the average wage for a 21 - 22 year old in the Prem was £390k per annum. Now, rather than come back with your usual one line witticisms why don't you come back with some facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Deloittes said that the average wage for a Prem player in the 2007/08 season was £1.1m per annum. That's £21k per week for an established player. In 2006 (long time ago of course) the average wage for a 21 - 22 year old in the Prem was £390k per annum. Now, rather than come back with your usual one line witticisms why don't you come back with some facts? I was rather hoping that you would come back with some "facts" as you put it, to back up your claim of £10k per week for these loanees you're so keen on. You've done that now athough my original point remains - your figure of £10k is a guess - albeit based on some ropey extrapolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I was rather hoping that you would come back with some "facts" as you put it, to back up your claim of £10k per week for these loanees you're so keen on. You've done that now athough my original point remains - your figure of £10k is a guess - albeit based on some ropey extrapolation. Why are Deloittes figures a guess in your book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Why are Deloittes figures a guess in your book? Who said Deloittes was a guess? Your extrapolation and interpretation of them is though. All I wanted was to know where your figure of £10k a week came from and what it was based on - I rather suspect that your figure of £10k per week was arrived at before you found the Deloitte figures - but that doesn't matter. As I understand it, many loans also now require a "fee" to the parent club - I don't suppose you know what that might entail or whether it's common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 As I understand it, many loans also now require a "fee" to the parent club - I don't suppose you know what that might entail or whether it's common? I hadn't heard of that - is this something we have done with Wycombe, Yeovil and Cheltenham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I hadn't heard of that - is this something we have done with Wycombe, Yeovil and Cheltenham? No idea. Probably not. I think it's something prem clubs were doing ISTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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