Eddie Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Ha ha! Good one. So from your housemate's actions you deduce all public servants must be the same! And yet, using your logic and from reading your posts I could resonably deduce that all private sector workers are a bit thick. Would I? Why don't we have a meeting about this, then have a further meeting to discuss what we discussed in the first meeting. Then have another meeting about that. If we have the meetings during lunch we can have friday off as flexi. The rest of the day we can sit on OTIB and do no work. Is this an accurate portrayal of your 'working' week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Trouble is, some of our players work flexi-time - they start the game 5 minutes late and clock off after 85 because they worked some of their half-time break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaxbourton Red Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 this daily mail attitude to the public sector is sickening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Hocking Posted July 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Excellent debate OTIB - it never ceases to amaze me how many smart people hang around on here (there are a few idiots too, of course!). This forum is a million miles ahead of the likes of 606 in terms of the calibre of users. Cheers Well_red PS: I don't work in the public sector so have no axe to grind - I just thought he came across as a bit more outspoken than your average public company boss so was worth quoting on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Why don't we have a meeting about this, then have a further meeting to discuss what we discussed in the first meeting. Then have another meeting about that. If we have the meetings during lunch we can have friday off as flexi. The rest of the day we can sit on OTIB and do no work. Is this an accurate portrayal of your 'working' week? Someone sounds slightly bitter and a lot misinformed. There are people that are both lazy and play the system in all organisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybabe Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Flexi-time is an absolute joke. It is a system abused by public sector office workers who only work at 10-15% capacity anyway. We all work through our lunches and work late sometimes, but we do it to get the job done. These wasters do it and expect to work a 4 day week as a result. I agree with Hargreaves I'm a civil servant and due to a colleague being off on long term sick I'm doing 2 jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I work 40 hours a week for £20.000 a year and object to being called a waster by the likes of you! Please don't tar all civil servants with the same brush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugger Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I did some temping in the public sector years ago and was amazed that there were 4 of us sat in an office doing the work of 1 man but then the inefficencies of the public sector isn't exactly news!? Regardless of my own experiences there will be countless examples of good quality, honest work being done and long may that continue. On this note I always thought a decent and rewarding idea for a TV show would be an alternative to wife swap where a manager goes in and has a go but it has to be public to private sector or vice versa, this way something good would actually come of it as well as making decent TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 His partner Peter Hargreaves hates football! Thank God! He is not running us!!!!! Public secter workers, get paid far less than private. But thats our choice. He is not in the public secter, and so should mind his own buisiness Public sector workers get paid less than private. Really? How's your pension coming along by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Excellent debate OTIB - it never ceases to amaze me how many smart people hang around on here (there are a few idiots too, of course!). This forum is a million miles ahead of the likes of 606 in terms of the calibre of users. Cheers Well_red PS: I don't work in the public sector so have no axe to grind - I just thought he came across as a bit more outspoken than your average public company boss so was worth quoting on here. well_red, excellent post and I've enjoyed reading this whole thread. I've worked for two major public sector organisations - Post Office and Council. I now choose to work for a private sector organisation for the more relaxed attitude and there's less of a confrontational attitude between shop floor and management. The Post Office and Council definately fosters an 'us and them' attitude where senior managers are often Toff ex public school bully types who despise their underlings. If you really want to get on in the public sector then you need to join the Freemasons and speak with the 'correct inbred Toff accent'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I've worked in the public sector for nearly a decade now, and in all honesty I've agreed with Hargreaves comments in the past (most of the work could be done with less people and better in many situations, in private companies) but now it seems he's simply headline grabbing. Over the years I've found there's two types of Civil Servant, those that are capable, want to get on and take pride in their work, and those who see the work place that is something you just turn up at, feel it owes you a favour and have no ambition. The problem with getting rid of the latter, is that union involvement goes so deep, it is almost impossible to sack someone, let alone take action against those who don't pull their wieght. Many of these are "old school" who have been in the public sector for years, have no intention of leaving and know they can get away with the bare minimum. I've worked for the DWP, that place was a pefect example of very badly paid workers. They put up with alot from the public, but due to the size of the organisation have no chance of decent pay increases. I feel sorry for them, in the meantine the Government has created thousands of jobs (Resonably rates of pay too) because everyone now has to have an interview to get a passport. Cost effective? I think not. I now work for a small agency, we're very modern, but there are still the "old school" in certain areas that take the piss, and get very well paid. Recently the PCS union wanted to go on strike, I found it laughable that people in my work place were moaning about the pay deal, at a time thousands were being laid off, considering we get a very good renumeration package. My area comes under budget, and performs better than what can be offered from private IT companies, we even come at the lower end of the cost per desktop spectrum while maintaining very tight SLA's. I'm proud of that, it is just a shame this outlook isn't shared across the public sector, because some derpartments are a bottomless pit. In terms of flexi, I see no issue with it, and as others have said, with core time and a decent management of leave it should never be an issue. I've certainly never had a problem getting something done on a friday, and would say it's harder to deal with a private company at Christmas time, than it ever is with alot of Government Departments. The Public Sector will modernise, but only if the Unions modernise their outlook, which untill the old school socialists start being pesnioned off this will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Man Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 well_red, excellent post and I've enjoyed reading this whole thread. I've worked for two major public sector organisations - Post Office and Council. I now choose to work for a private sector organisation for the more relaxed attitude and there's less of a confrontational attitude between shop floor and management. The Post Office and Council definately fosters an 'us and them' attitude where senior managers are often Toff ex public school bully types who despise their underlings. If you really want to get on in the public sector then you need to join the Freemasons and speak with the 'correct inbred Toff accent'. I love reading Red Goblin's posts: he so well informed. I work in the public sector and my experience is purely that some people abuse their position by being lazy and seem to get away with it. However, the majority are motivated to help people (rather than exploit others and work purely for their income) and work longer hours than expected. Although, I agree with Red Goblin when he says that academic snobbery exists in the public sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 The Public Sector will modernise, but only if the Unions modernise their outlook, which untill the old school socialists start being pesnioned off this will not happen. On the other side of the equation, the senior positions in the public services have been hijacked by public school educated Toffs. They've set up their old school networks whereby a non Toff has no chance at all of gaining a senior position within a given public service. E.g. the Crown Prosecution Service is totally Toff ridden and that is seen whereby a working man committing a minor misdemeanor will be hammered by the courts but a corrupt Toff banker will have charges dropped because they will have family/Freemasonary/public school connections to the CPS. Even the Labour Party has been hijacked by Toffs with the likes of Toffs Peter Mandelsohn and Harriett Harman now running that former working man's political party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I have worked in both public and private sector. Basically, Hargreaves is just a typical rich #### talking out of his a*se. In the 'outdated' part of the public sector, things bumble along, get done, and whilst the service isn't great, it is not that bad. Over-manned, but most of the jobs are relatively low paid. Then we go to the 'modernised' bit - the bare minimum staff trying, paid low wages, trying to do miracles, but staff shortages, and 'modern' approaches to customer service mean that the service is utter sh*te. As for the staff savings, they are swallowed up by the top brass, and the leeches/ management consultants, and if you can get more money out of customers, they can take even more. A bit extreme, but horribly close to the truth. Most of the Guardian non-jobs are actually in response to some Government initiative, generated after a wave of tabloid hysteria, although I concede that H&S and E&D are just empire building. The trouble with w*nkers like Hargreaves is that they are not happy making millions, they want more. If putting millions on the dole means they can get richer by paying less tax, they don't care. What's a heap of broken families and homeless people when the top rate of tax can be cut? Privatise a bit more, then him and his ilk can milk it for millions, workers can lose jobs/ take a pay cut, customers can pay more - All so that a minority can have even more. No, I don't agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Torygraph - Run by the Barclay Brothers, based in the Channel Islands to avoid tax. Tried to take over the running of Sark, their lackeys failed to get elected, so they closed a few businesses down, throwing people out of work. So a pair of tax dodgers complain about other peoples tax being wasted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I love reading Red Goblin's posts: he so well informed. Although, I agree with Red Goblin when he says that academic snobbery exists in the public sector. Thank you Sir. The fact is that when so many of the ruling Labour Party High Command have taken the 'Lord' and 'Lady' feudal titles you just know that the Labour Party is now no more than a vehicle to forward the ambitions of their fellow Toffs in the public sector. E.g. the senior Labour Party Toff Lord Mandelsohn has gone out of his way to engineer a confrontation with the Post Office Workers' Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21. Marcham Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Isn't this a football related forum? :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Flexi-time is an absolute joke. It is a system abused by public sector office workers who only work at 10-15% capacity anyway. We all work through our lunches and work late sometimes, but we do it to get the job done. These wasters do it and expect to work a 4 day week as a result. I agree with Hargreaves Peter Hargreaves is Definately right with regard to certain public service organisations. The public sector organisations in need of the biggest shake up are the Police, their Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) lawyer puppet masters and the House of Lords. We all know how dysfunctional and corrupt the Police and their CPS masters can be especially following some of our supporters being arrested and taken to court for the 'heinous' crime of a pre match pint at Walsall. The House of Lords is now full of dysfunctional politicians such as Lord Kinnock, Lady Kinnock, Lady Thatcher and Lord Mandelsohn - we could save £1 billion per year by abolishing the House of Lords and sacking the corrupt Toffs that infest the Police and CPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamCityFan Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 I agree with everything he has said. This is globalization coming back to bite us hard and it will affect the UK more than any other country. Our standard of living, disposable income and working pay/benefits has been the envy of the world. Now this country could become a dried up husk of a place as businesses move to less expensive parts of he world where the cost of living is servilely cheaper and more profit can be made. If I'm a financial business owner and my firm can operate out of Singapore at an annual cost of say £4million, why would I operate out of London where my costs are near £8million, my staff have less time, less disposable income and unable to afford local housing? Not to mention getting taxed astronomically. This country needs to face some hard facts about its economy, All of our jobs can be done for a fraction of what we are being paid in other parts of the world. Unless we sort out the hideous waste of taxpayers money by frivolous spending councils we are bankrupt. Its funny, about 3 yrs ago while working for BCC I got talking to the EP editor about running a story on the massive, disgusting unnecessary wistful spending of BCC, i had evidence and people willing to testify to the corrupt and lazy nature of them. It was my view that this problem was institutional and BCC was rotten to its core. People abused their positions, took the piss with working rights, employed their friends over more suitable people. I dunno if its changed, I fear not. Thank fork I don't work there any more, I hated it, the very worst kind of scum seemed to work for BCC. They took no pride in their work, the attitudes of the day was "they owe me and they are lucky i even turn up!" people who could not get a job anywhere else usually ended up there for some weird reason, I sometimes wonder if the government years ago created all these pointless jobs just to get the unemployment figure down, there is no other logical explanation. So many people were constantly off sick, signed off with stress, taking 4 hr lunches, stealing from the hand that fed them and still they played the poor exploited victim! Councils should operate like businesses, but they don't they are just money sponges who will soak up and spend every penny you thrown at them, they are a black holes, a bureaucratic birds nest nightmare and need shutting down and reforming or we are all forked. Absolutely spot on Cider Hider - said it better than I could. I have a friend who used to work at Gloucester City Council who knows of people being on long term sick on something like full pay for 6 months and coming into work for 1 day so they can claim full pay for another 6months. Religous societys for employees playing tit for tat for benefits, i.e the Christian group gets one benefit so the Jewish group (for instance) want a similar benefit of they feel predujiced , and one shocking case of a field based employee losing their driving licence for drink driving being relocated to an office based role on a higher salary. "they owe me and they are lucky i even turn up!" sums up what I have heard from friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Absolutely spot on Cider Hider - said it better than I could. I have a friend who used to work at Gloucester City Council who knows of people being on long term sick on something like full pay for 6 months and coming into work for 1 day so they can claim full pay for another 6months. That's the employment entitlement at most councils after 5 year's service. I.e. 6 months sick at full pay and then 6 months sick at half pay and you do need a doctor's certificate to claim for that length of sick period. What no one - other than me - seems to mention/know about is the scandalous waste of taxpayers' money going on in our legal system. Not just the state funded CPS but independent lawyers advising their clients to plead 'not guilty' until the last then to plead 'guilty' at the last minute so that they can maximise their financial claim on the court case. Our country is in real financial trouble and that's why people are so angry with the state funded political idiots in the Lib-Lab-Con that have been putting in fraudulent expense claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmpowell Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 On the rare occasion both myself and Mrs M have met Mr Hargreaves we found him to be a bit Fred Elliot with attitude. He was on one occasion talking to a lady that works with him and said he told her husband to 'eff off home more often to see the lovely little wifey'. We began to move towards the door.... Uncle Rog - I worked for Steve Lansdown and Peter Hargreaves for nearly 8 years (literally sat only a few meters away for some of that time), and what you witnessed was only the tip of an iceberg! I could tell you some tales of Mr H's, shall we say, 'blunt' tact and demeanour that would leave even you quite literally speechless! Having said that though, when it comes to HL each of their style of working compliments the other's, and they are probably the two businessmen I admire most in this country. A company built by hard work and determination, not on anybody's misfortune. Peter has a very 'say it how it is' approach but 9 times out of ten you will find that he is bang on with his view. He isn't afraid to upset people, and trust me when I say that the man is VERY switched on! The 1 time out of ten when he is wrong, you will find it was a knee jerk reaction and Steve being the voice of reason gets Peter to back down. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are one of the luckiest football clubs in existence to have a man Like Steve Lansdown at the helm with his amazing rational business brain, but remember, if it weren't for Peter by his side to build their business we might not have been in this position. So before some of the people in this thread shoot down Mr Hargreaves for his 'blunt' views, think on a bit and consider one thing, Peter Hargreaves and Steve Lansdown aren't in the financial position they're in today via sheer luck, there are business brains as well on those shoulders! p.s. Anybody in any doubt at the state of the current economy should watch this interview from yesterday's Andrew Marr show: http://news.BBC.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8134963.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Having said that though, when it comes to HL each of their style of working compliments the other's, and they are probably the two businessmen I admire most in this country. A company built by hard work and determination, not on anybody's misfortune. Peter has a very 'say it how it is' approach but 9 times out of ten you will find that he is bang on with his view. He isn't afraid to upset people, and trust me when I say that the man is VERY switched on! The 1 time out of ten when he is wrong, you will find it was a knee jerk reaction and Steve being the voice of reason gets Peter to back down. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we are one of the luckiest football clubs in existence to have a man Like Steve Lansdown at the helm with his amazing rational business brain, but remember, if it weren't for Peter by his side to build their business we might not be in this position. So before some of the people in this thread shoot down Mr Hargreaves for his 'blunt' views, think on a bit and consider one thing, Peter Hargreaves isn't in the position he is in today via sheer luck, there is a business brain as well on those shoulders! As I stated before: Peter Hargreaves is definately right with regard to certain public service organisations. You might find it odd coming from me but I really admire both Steve Lansdown and Peter Hargreaves. They've both worked Capitalism to their advantage and are bringing real benefit to Bristol and thus this football club. I watched Peter Hargreaves in a television interview and he was spot on with everything he said in my opinion - he's a very shrewd and intelligent man and the best of luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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