CliftonCliff Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 References to this topic keep cropping up on other threads and I would suggest that it may merit a separate one of its own. It seems I'm not the only one to harbour a nagging sense of unease about the difficulty that our best Academy products seem to be having in making it to even the fringes of the first team. In fact, the Chairman himself hinted at his own concern in a typically understated remark some time last year. I don't know if anyone else picked up on it at the time: it was subtle and if you blinked you'd have missed it, but he definitely referred to it. The issue has been thrown into sharper relief this week by the arrival, or possible arrival, of a number of young signings in roughly the same age bracket (and in some cases the same positions on the field) as our most promising youngsters, such as James Wilson and Frankie Artus. Gary Johnson has in the past seemed reluctant to comment on the subject and more recently, when he has, I've found some of his remarks contradictory. For example, he said only a week or two ago something to the effect that the intensely competitive nature of the Championship made it hard to introduce young, inexperienced footballers to senior level and that there were, in fact, very few players answering that description currently appearing for Championship sides. This has not prevented him, however, from signing Blackman and Haynes, or (allegedly) trying to sign Nyatanga. Before anyone accuses me of criticising the manager for attempting to strengthen the squad, let me stress this is not my intention at all. I am as encouraged by recent arrivals as everyone else, but can't help wondering what it means for the current crop of Academy lads. GJ is on record as saying he rates Wilson very highly, but he (Wilson) must be thinking that if Nyatanga comes here, his own career has probably just gone backwards one step. It seems odd after he received international recognition and rave reviews for his loan spell at Brentford. (OK, I know, a lower league, but even so...) I accept it's tougher to introduce these boys to first team football now we're a Championship side, but it seems in some ways that there is a 'heads you win, tails I lose' element to this argument. When we were in League One, the problem was supposedly that we found it hard to hold on to our best youngsters because they were picked off by clubs in the leagues above us. (Lita, Rosenior, Golbourne, Anyinsah, Cotterill et al). Now we're in that league ourselves, the standard's too high for them to get a game. Is the manager implicitly saying we are failing to produce players of suffucient quality? If so, this was certainly not the case in a previous era (albeit the club was then at a lower level) when in relatively short time a string of youngsters graduated to senior football. (Carey, Doherty, Burnell, Brown, Coles, Hill, among others). Some of these went on to a higher level for a time, and though they have since met with varying degrees of success, most are still in League football. For a long time now we have been saying that the only way for a club of our stature to progress is to produce our own stars of the future, whether they remain here or are sold to raise revenue, because we cannot hope to compete in the market with the big boys. One could forgive the Chairman for starting to wonder if this still holds true and why he is investing a seven-figure sum annually to fund the running of the club's nursery. I don't want to dampen the justified the excitment about the recent transfer activity, which essentailly I of course welcome, but I do think there is a valid cause for concern. Does anybody share my worries about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Nose Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Does anybody share my worries about this? Ashtonyate, he'll be on in a minute... Personally I think it is a bit naive to think that 12 new youngsters will make the grade each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 The academy doesn't cost anywhere near 7 figures, it only cost that in it's first year. Since the Clifton College partnership ended it has been far lower and we have multiple sponsorships for it and some grants. I think the cost to the club is under £200k. It will take some time for the academy to catch up with our Championship status. Players like Wilson and Ribeiro might be good enough but bear in mind that they were recruited when we were still in league one and Championship clubs around us were competing for young players leaving school. I don't think taking the opportunity to sign a 20 yr old full international means that GJ doesn't rate the academy players, it's just too good a chance to pass up. James Wilson might go on loan but I bet Ribeiro plays this season. Plummer, Kington and Jackson aren't ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Robin Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I agree about the contradiction..we're signing some young players (with more experience than the Academy players,but always young) ,and he says that there are not much young player which can play in the Championship.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internetjef Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 When a young player is on fire for the reserves they are ready to be included in first team squad is anyone doing that currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE23Red Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Is the manager implicitly saying we are failing to produce players of suffucient quality? Yes. If we were producing players of sufficient quality and not playing them we would have clubs sniffing around waiting to take them off of our hands. Not many hot English prospects go unnoticed with all clubs trying to unearth the next big thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Ashtonyate, he'll be on in a minute... Personally I think it is a bit naive to think that 12 new youngsters will make the grade each year. With respect, I don't mind in the least being shot down for saying something naive if I have actually said it, but I'm at a loss to know what in my post suggested I expected floods of young players to make the grade 'every year'. As to the rest, Nibor is far better informed than me and I stand corrected on costs, so thanks for that, and for the other observations, which I also accept on the whole, though nobody has yet said anything that entirely convinces me my concerns are groundless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 With respect, I don't mind in the least being shot down for saying something naive if I have actually said it, but I'm at a loss to know what in my post suggested I expected floods of young players to make the grade 'every year'. As to the rest, Nibor is far better informed than me and I stand corrected on costs, so thanks for that, and for the other observations, which I also accept on the whole, though nobody has yet said anything that entirely convinces me my concerns are groundless. I wouldn't say your concerns are groundless. Football managers are probably in the most results oriented job in the world. The pressure they're under to get results now is immense, and the fact is only 3 teams in this division out of 24 can actually go up. That means it's hard for them to plan longer term and I'm sure GJ is a little less inclined to rely on youth than he could be. I expect if we sign a powerful striker this week Akinde will get very little game time next season - I'm sure GJ rates him highly but enough to bet promotion to the Prem on it? A bigger stronger squad like you need at this level makes it harder for younger players to break through but in some respects they have to respond by trying harder and being better because the prize, first team football, is worth more at this level. I think we'll see one or two make it but it will be 2-5 years before we consistently produce top quality players at this level like Southampton and Cardiff have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITW Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Sorry to go off topic, but this has to be worth mentioning... Anyone with BCFC world I suggest you watch the Tristan Plummer post Hereford interview. It really is brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leedsred Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Sorry to go off topic, but this has to be worth mentioning... Anyone with BCFC world I suggest you watch the Tristan Plummer post Hereford interview. It really is brilliant! For those of us without it..... is it worth enlightening us?? :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITW Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 For those of us without it..... is it worth enlightening us?? :noexpression: Basically he says the word 'really' many, many times. Its one of those things you need to see to understand :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan 7 Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Sorry to go off topic, but this has to be worth mentioning... Anyone with BCFC world I suggest you watch the Tristan Plummer post Hereford interview. It really is brilliant! Made me laugh! Fair play though, like he said its a big season for him with his contract up next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 The academy doesn't cost anywhere near 7 figures, it only cost that in it's first year. Since the Clifton College partnership ended it has been far lower and we have multiple sponsorships for it and some grants. I think the cost to the club is under £200k. It will take some time for the academy to catch up with our Championship status. Players like Wilson and Ribeiro might be good enough but bear in mind that they were recruited when we were still in league one and Championship clubs around us were competing for young players leaving school. I don't think taking the opportunity to sign a 20 yr old full international means that GJ doesn't rate the academy players, it's just too good a chance to pass up. James Wilson might go on loan but I bet Ribeiro plays this season. Plummer, Kington and Jackson aren't ready yet. Apart from Lloyd James I can't think of anyone within miles of Bristol who City missed out on, who is now a star in the making - maybe Chris Stokes who is still at Bolton I believe. Happily stand corrected on that point - thing to remember is, that City played against Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Villa etc etc because it had Academy status as a league 1 side - and certainly the Kington/Jackson era beat them all (except Arsenal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barneyredballs Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Apart from Lloyd James I can't think of anyone within miles of Bristol who City missed out on, who is now a star in the making - maybe Chris Stokes who is still at Bolton I believe. Happily stand corrected on that point - thing to remember is, that City played against Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Villa etc etc because it had Academy status as a league 1 side - and certainly the Kington/Jackson era beat them all (except Arsenal) Reuben Reid? Should move up a league this year, maybe even two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 GJ is on record as saying he rates Wilson very highly, but he (Wilson) must be thinking that if Nyatanga comes here, his own career has probably just gone backwards one step. If he (Wilson) really did think like that then he would indeed be going backwards! ... Its competitors we're looking for not surrenderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I have said a lot about the academy over the years which I still stand by. We seem to get players with glowing reports out of the academy then its very slow progress. We spend a lot of money bring them on only to see them struggle to break into the first team squad. I think one of the problems is there is not a strong reserve league in this part of the country,so they play against poor quality teams which is not ideal and slows there progress. One answer would be to join a reserve league say in London and play all the matches away from Bristol as team do not want to travel down here to play. The fact that we play our reserve games against poor opposition may have an effect on the first team if we are to play a higher standard of football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.