Markman Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 For the sake of the sanity of all City Fans and another 9 months of "LJ" threads - the best thing would have been for LJ to leave however good or bad he is (and he is not irreplacable). The simple fact is his selection polarises and divides the supporters like no other player - that will never be a good thing - and we will get another 9 months of this now - in an old Laurel and Hardy film a man states "this is more than I can stand" - I know how he feels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted July 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 For the sake of the sanity of all City Fans and another 9 months of "LJ" threads - the best thing would have been for LJ to leave however good or bad he is (and he is not irreplacable). The simple fact is his selection polarises and divides the supporters like no other player - that will never be a good thing - and we will get another 9 months of this now - in an old Laurel and Hardy film a man states "this is more than I can stand" - I know how he feels! Lets be fair though, this thread has not materialised into abuse or the notion that peope are wrong or right and do or don't understand football. The good thing, is thread has bought about a decent discussion about LJ and the side, the formation what he does and doesnt bring to the side and even though many on this thread dissagree, it has been well argued and listened to from all corners. I have no problem with it when its reasoned and doesnt resort to abuse of either a posters view or of LJ/GJ or any other player for that matter. The views on here arr 'footballing' ones, and thats worth reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 The reality of the situation is that Hartley, if fit, will definately start at Preston, as will Elliott. The dilemma that the manager then has is whether he plays a perceived stronger, more trusted, formation in 4-4-2 or whether he seeks to accomodate his better players and mould the team around them. 4-3-3 didnt work against Ajax but there are reasons for that, they're outstanding quality being the main one, our lack of Hartley to boss and organise being another. That formation could work with a middle three of Johnson, Elliott and Hartley in my opinion but it needs someone of Hartley's experience and stature to keep it organised. A four man midfield would be my prefered starting point if we recruited a quality right winger. As of yet we havent and, for me, this alone lends great weight to the reasoning for breaking with tradition and adopting the three man midfield with wide men supporting a lone striker. That of course is not perfect, Clarkson shouldnt be played out wide, nor should Maynard, and if we are to sign a 'target man' which looks likely then I struggle to see how Johnson will effectively include more than one striker. On Hartley's signing Johnson made it very clear that he viewed him as the attacking prong of a three strong midfield, and that is what I would expect to see against Preston. It may be paraded as 4-5-1, especially if it doesnt work and we lose that day, but I would suggest that is the most likely scenario at this stage with Johnson holding behind Hartley and Elliott. Clearly that will be the next fun many have, 'blimey, Johnson is even changing the team formation to accomodate his boy now.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 For the sake of the sanity of all City Fans and another 9 months of "LJ" threads - the best thing would have been for LJ to leave however good or bad he is (and he is not irreplacable). The simple fact is his selection polarises and divides the supporters like no other player - that will never be a good thing - and we will get another 9 months of this now - in an old Laurel and Hardy film a man states "this is more than I can stand" - I know how he feels! Obviously the LJ situation has extra spice given he is the manager's son but if it were not he then the spotlight would fall onto others. McIndoe and Sproule both polarise opinion but it is overshadowed by Johnson as {some} people, subconciously or not, cannot move away from who his father is. The sad thing about the entire Lee Johnson situation is that he is actually a very decent player, not irreplacable and not a superstar but he continually turns in solid shifts playing a pivotal position in a succesful side. There is a world of difference between some fool in the stands shouting 'get your son off Johnson' and 'get that Lee Johnson off', it is those who cannot escape the midset of nepotism who amplify the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internetjef Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 its funny isnt it that we all look at it as if you want to pay a 4-3-3 you simply purchase players who are comfortable playing in those positions. However the biggest challenge appears to be coaching the team (new and existing) to play the foreign formation. I reckon that we have the players to play both 442 and 433, however whether GJ can coach a disciplined 433 into them before the start of the season is debatable. We cant aford to turn up at preston with a formation we arent comfortable with or we will get stuffed. I totally agree i think GJ was looking to go 4-3-3 this season, but it will need to start to click in the friendlies otherwise he will prob shift back to the familair 442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markman Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Lets be fair though, this thread has not materialised into abuse or the notion that peope are wrong or right and do or don't understand football. The good thing, is thread has bought about a decent discussion about LJ and the side, the formation what he does and doesnt bring to the side and even though many on this thread dissagree, it has been well argued and listened to from all corners. I have no problem with it when its reasoned and doesnt resort to abuse of either a posters view or of LJ/GJ or any other player for that matter. The views on here arr 'footballing' ones, and thats worth reading. I agree - but we cannot be naive - we know its coming - sadly, and as City Supporter I am sure it wont be healthy for the Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUMMAT OUTTA NOWT Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Agree that to resort to abuse is ridiculous. The forum is about constructive banter between like minded people with a interest in the club. My own view is that friendlies only resort to the general fitness of players who do not make the 100% do or die tackles etc. Players should be judged from last season and then a few games in to the new season. End of last year midfield Skuse - most consistent, Williams - injury prone but can be excellent, Elliot - excellent but injury prone and no where near his first season, LJ can,t pin him down - does,nt win tackles, does,nt chase back but somehow links play up ???. The new signings have pedigree and if they give full potential then maybe we may see genuine competition for places. If you do bring the friendlies into the argument then Haynes, Artus and Kington have been Ok and with experience could be promising but the games they have played in have not been of championship standard. There are a thousand arguments as to who plays and how the formation will be but whether a player plays is surely down to his form and his ability not who he is. Current form Hartley Skuse and Williams in a 4-3-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 GJ usually plays a 5 man midfield away to a strong team. He will probably go with Johnson Hartly Elliot Mcindoe and Haynes with Clarkson up front. Maynard will come on for mcindoe if we are chasing the game to make it more 4-3-3. I bet i am not a million miles out with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 With the acquisition of Hartley who is by all accounts a good all round midfielder with a far better passing range and far more effective set pieces than LJ I see no role for LJ in the first XI. LJs game doesn't have enough to it at this level, he offers absolutely nothing defensively because he's busy taking up a position which would be fine if he did something special with the ball in possession but what he actually does is slow the game down and either play it long or play a defender into pressure. All this talk about him dictating play is misleading IMO, of course if he doesn't defend and is available he can keep the ball moving, anybody can do that - we need more out of a midfielder. Essentially LJ is very good at a job we don't need done. The first choice should be Hartley and Elliott. Elliott's all action game will benefit greatly for not having to do the job of two and we'll see him on the scoresheet more and making forward runs more. If it were a 3 I'd pick Williams to play in behind the front two or perhaps Skuse if we were away at top side. I've seen lots of all of our midfielders except Hartley and LJ is the fifth choice in my eyes because his limitations have a massive effect on how the team play. Spot on Nibor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 there is no point in these kinds of posts, whether we all think he is good or not, he will always be in that starting eleven come kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 LJ is a good asset for our club and on his day can dictate the pace of the game. however, last season his form dipped on several occassions and despite this he still retained his place in the side week in week out. so why do people wonder why there is so much controversy surrounding his selection?? its GJ fault that this situation exists because he always picks him despite the fact he may be in poor form. if he left him out after a couple of bad games and made him force his way back into the side this debate wouldnt be half so fierce. surely there is no one that would claim that LJs form never once dipped last year and that he did not deserve to be dropped once??? i feel we will start 433. if this does not work and only 2 CM's are picked for a 442 then surely with everyone fit it will be hartley and marvin. hartley can do the bits and pieces that LJ can but alot more besides. if we go 442 and GJ still go's with LJ the debate will go up a gear yet still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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