Enjoyed The Game At The Liberty Stadium But.....

[headhunter]

Lee Johnson and Ivan Sproule dear oh dear!!!

LJ looked a little boy lost out there tonight and on three occasions a combination of lack of speed/strength on the ball almost cost City dearly. Why was he even in the team when a fit Skuse was a much better option, particularly with Hartley doing the picking the ball off the back four job admirably.

Three times in the first half Sproule had excellent chances to create a strong goal scoring situation when in receipt of intelligent passing but on each occasion he blew it, as usual, through lack of control and strength.

All in all we played well despite the above and I feel if the team was at full srength we would probably have won against a Swans side playing an attractive passing game.

Basso showed what he can do with a couple of stunning saves in the second half whilst Sno showed touches of skill and strength that suggest when fully fit he will be awesome.

[Strictly Obi]

Well done GJ and ALL the team for a well earned point!

[Port Said Red]

Lee Johnson and Ivan Sproule dear oh dear!!!

LJ looked a little boy lost out there tonight and on three occasions a combination of lack of speed/strength on the ball almost cost City dearly. Why was he even in the team when a fit Skuse was a much better option, particularly with Hartley doing the picking the ball off the back four job admirably.

Three times in the first half Sproule had excellent chances to create a strong goal scoring situation when in receipt of intelligent passing but on each occasion he blew it, as usual, through lack of control and strength.

We know that LJ was one of the players affected by sickness before, not sure about Ivan and Skuse has had some knocks. I did get the impression from GJ's interview that he was playing his "fittest" players from the start, rather than "fit" players. If Skuse really was fully fit I think he would have been more involved.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Lee Johnson and Ivan Sproule dear oh dear!!!

LJ looked a little boy lost out there tonight and on three occasions a combination of lack of speed/strength on the ball almost cost City dearly. Why was he even in the team when a fit Skuse was a much better option, particularly with Hartley doing the picking the ball off the back four job admirably.

Three times in the first half Sproule had excellent chances to create a strong goal scoring situation when in receipt of intelligent passing but on each occasion he blew it, as usual, through lack of control and strength.

All in all we played well despite the above and I feel if the team was at full srength we would probably have won against a Swans side playing an attractive passing game.

Basso showed what he can do with a couple of stunning saves in the second half whilst Sno showed touches of skill and strength that suggest when fully fit he will be awesome.

Unsurprising that these two players get singled out, as Sproule has joined Johnson as the favourite whipping-boy this season.

So Johnson 'almost cost City dearly' - from that I deduce that he didn't cost City, dearly or otherwise

So Sproule 'had excellent chances... but on each occasion he blew it, as usual' - 'as usual'? I remember a few occasions when he far from blew it and scored eye-catching goals

Both players stepped into the breach last night because of illness and injury, having not had much first team football this season. I wasn't there, but I daresay that both gave their all for the team, as they usually do. That's good enough for me in the situation we faced last night.

[Pete1975Legend]

Unsurprising that these two players get singled out, as Sproule has joined Johnson as the favourite whipping-boy this season.

So Johnson 'almost cost City dearly' - from that I deduce that he didn't cost City, dearly or otherwise

So Sproule 'had excellent chances... but on each occasion he blew it, as usual' - 'as usual'? I remember a few occasions when he far from blew it and scored eye-catching goals

Both players stepped into the breach last night because of illness and injury, having not had much first team football this season. I wasn't there, but I daresay that both gave their all for the team, as they usually do. That's good enough for me in the situation we faced last night.

Here here just another member wanting to join the legion of people who criticise and single out individual players.

In fact I blame LJ and IS for the cloudy weather how dare they!!!!

[Chappers]

Must agree with OP, so far Sproule has actually delivered very little for the Club. One eye-catching goal against Southampton, and that's about it. He is fast (so is Lindford Christie) but delivers very little. Out wide he has nuisance value, in the middle, he just looks lost. As fot LJ, I just don't think he is good enough to play at this level.

We are short of players, so sit half-fit people on the bench. So what is the point of spending money on an Academy, and then just loaning kids out? We have Plummer at Hereford. LJ is supposedly ill, OK then, what about Artus? Times like this are when most Clubs are forced to rely on young players, and test if they are up to the demands of Championship football.

[Andy082005]

Unsurprising that these two players get singled out, as Sproule has joined Johnson as the favourite whipping-boy this season.

So Johnson 'almost cost City dearly' - from that I deduce that he didn't cost City, dearly or otherwise

So Sproule 'had excellent chances... but on each occasion he blew it, as usual' - 'as usual'? I remember a few occasions when he far from blew it and scored eye-catching goals

Both players stepped into the breach last night because of illness and injury, having not had much first team football this season. I wasn't there, but I daresay that both gave their all for the team, as they usually do. That's good enough for me in the situation we faced last night.

behave mate, Ivan Sproule isnt being "singled out"....he is just not good enough, end of story. Please, name these occasions you talk about??. For me, players like Sproule, Johnson and Wilson need to be replaced, they are just not good enough if we really want to kick on as a team. If we want a mid-table team, and are happy to settle with this...then fine, but if we want to TRY and attempt to sniff round the play-offs, if these 3 players feature more often, it wont happen

Its got nothing to do with being a "Whipping boy" or a "scape goat", they are just not good enough

[BCFChris]

We all dream of a team of Ivan Sproules!

[Tim S]

Must agree with OP, so far Sproule has actually delivered very little for the Club. One eye-catching goal against Southampton

And even that he nearly cocked up!! He almost ran too far with the ball and the defender nearly got back in time!

[Alex_BCFC]

We all dream of a team of Ivan Sproules!

Sounds more like a nightmare that.

No one is using LJ and Sproule as scapegoats- they just aren't good enough and haven't been for some time. But as soon as you criticise someone who isn't good enough, of course people accuse you.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

Unsurprising that these two players get singled out, as Sproule has joined Johnson as the favourite whipping-boy this season.

So Johnson 'almost cost City dearly' - from that I deduce that he didn't cost City, dearly or otherwise

So Sproule 'had excellent chances... but on each occasion he blew it, as usual' - 'as usual'? I remember a few occasions when he far from blew it and scored eye-catching goals

Both players stepped into the breach last night because of illness and injury, having not had much first team football this season. I wasn't there, but I daresay that both gave their all for the team, as they usually do. That's good enough for me in the situation we faced last night.

Exactly, and i see that no-one has critisised Skuse for missing from 6 yards with the last kick of the game. He is awful in front of goal and his record shows this.

[windmillhillred]

OK then, what about Artus? Times like this are when most Clubs are forced to rely on young players, and test if they are up to the demands of Championship football.

Pecking order for midfield is something like this I would imagine:

Hartley

Sno

Elliott

Skuse

Johnson

Sproule

Williams

Artus.

Therefore, why wouldn't Johnson loan Artus out to give him experience? He can't be expected to predict when a freak surge of injuries/illness is going to sweep through the club. What's the alternative - keep everyone at the club so the youngsters don't get games? Or ship out useful squad players and have inexperienced youngsters coming in if any problems occur

[Always Ashton Red]

Pecking order for midfield is something like this I would imagine:

Hartley

Sno

Elliott

Skuse

Johnson

Sproule

Williams

Artus.

Therefore, why wouldn't Johnson loan Artus out to give him experience? He can't be expected to predict when a freak surge of injuries/illness is going to sweep through the club. What's the alternative - keep everyone at the club so the youngsters don't get games? Or ship out useful squad players and have inexperienced youngsters coming in if any problems occur

Correct me if im wrong but Artus is at cheltenham now?

[Guest DanC]

And even that he nearly cocked up!! He almost ran too far with the ball and the defender nearly got back in time!

And he ended up walking it into the net as he even knows he is more than cabable of cocking up scoring from an open goal.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Sounds more like a nightmare that.

No one is using LJ and Sproule as scapegoats- they just aren't good enough and haven't been for some time. But as soon as you criticise someone who isn't good enough, of course people accuse you.

If Johnson thinks that Sproule and LJ are good enough, then that's good enough for me. After all, he's the manager, not me. Both of them have demonstrated ability at Championship level and the fact that they don't perform to the best of their ability in one or more matches does not necessarily mean that they are not good enough. Johnson is a better player than City fans give him credit for, and Sproule has taken defences apart before now (usually as an impact player from the bench). I'm prepared to trust Johnson's judgement that they are worth their place in the squad. Sproule in particular has shown that he can be devastating on his day. Anyone remember Sheffield United at home two seasons ago?

[Alex_BCFC]

If Johnson thinks that Sproule and LJ are good enough, then that's good enough for me. After all, he's the manager, not me. Both of them have demonstrated ability at Championship level and the fact that they don't perform to the best of their ability in one or more matches does not necessarily mean that they are not good enough. Johnson is a better player than City fans give him credit for, and Sproule has taken defences apart before now (usually as an impact player from the bench). I'm prepared to trust Johnson's judgement that they are worth their place in the squad. Sproule in particular has shown that he can be devastating on his day. Anyone remember Sheffield United at home two seasons ago?

Sproule only got picked because we were so light on strikers.

I remember Sproule 2 years ago having a good game. But shouldn't he have had another good one by now? He just doesn't cut it for 90 minutes at this level. Handy for 10 at the end of games but little else for me- that is why he doesn't start much and won't be here for much longer IMO.

As for Johnson we could be here all day arguing about that one. Just glad he isn't an automatic choice anymore.

[Louis]

Why can't Sproule play like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKXlgf37iFQ...

[mindjuicer]

Did Sproule and LJ play badly or not?

Sorry but people slag these guys off (especially LJ) for no reason. So saying they 'just ain't good enough' means nothing to those of us who didn't see the game.

I understand the OP saw the match but did anyone else?

What exactly did and didn't they do?

[Markman]

Did Sproule and LJ play badly or not?

Sorry but people slag these guys off (especially LJ) for no reason. So saying they 'just ain't good enough' means nothing to those of us who didn't see the game.

I understand the OP saw the match but did anyone else?

What exactly did and didn't they do?

I had the pleasure of being at the game. In truth - it was all pretty dire.

Hardly anyone played well on either side - Dyer stood out.

Sproule - I like him but he did not really turn up. Never seemed to be in space or to give an option - on the occaisions he did find space we did not have anyone to find him - when he ran with the ball he lost possesion nearly every time - very poor. I also thought LJ was poor as well - gave the ball away and the only passes he made were sideways or backwards - everyone (well 4 or 5) I spoke to at the game said the same thing - 2 very poor performances but we take a point.

All that said - GJ now says they were all dying of the lergy etc - well if true fair enough - they played like it!!

I also had the pleasure of staying in Swansea - my taxi Driver back to Hotel was at the game as well. We had a good chat and he said that was the best Swansea had played, he thought it was a great game (!! just shows we all see it differently) but he said he thought we were the worst side he had seen - no attacking flair at all - on that he was probably about right - we only had two good chances one early doors and one in the last second - all that said ol Costa Coffee looks a good'un to me.

Anyway - take the point but this was not an inspiring performance - possibly grafting but many teams would beat us if we play like that agin - imo!

[DavidNoble]

I had the pleasure of being at the game. In truth - it was all pretty dire.

Hardly anyone played well on either side - Dyer stood out.

Sproule - I like him but he did not really turn up. Never seemed to be in space or to give an option - on the occaisions he did find space we did not have anyone to find him - when he ran with the ball he lost possesion nearly every time - very poor. I also thought LJ was poor as well - gave the ball away and the only passes he made were sideways or backwards - everyone (well 4 or 5) I spoke to at the game said the same thing - 2 very poor performances but we take a point.

All that said - GJ now says they were all dying of the lergy etc - well if true fair enough - they played like it!!

I also had the pleasure of staying in Swansea - my taxi Driver back to Hotel was at the game as well. We had a good chat and he said that was the best Swansea had played, he thought it was a great game (!! just shows we all see it differently) but he said he thought we were the worst side he had seen - no attacking flair at all - on that he was probably about right - we only had two good chances one early doors and one in the last second - all that said ol Costa Coffee looks a good'un to me.

Anyway - take the point but this was not an inspiring performance - possibly grafting but many teams would beat us if we play like that agin - imo!

TAKE A BOOOOOOOOWW SONN

[mindjuicer]

Sproule - I like him but he did not really turn up. Never seemed to be in space or to give an option - on the occaisions he did find space we did not have anyone to find him - when he ran with the ball he lost possesion nearly every time - very poor. I also thought LJ was poor as well - gave the ball away and the only passes he made were sideways or backwards - everyone (well 4 or 5) I spoke to at the game said the same thing - 2 very poor performances but we take a point.

Thanks dude, sad when we have to go out of our way to avoid sounding like the usual detractors.

I'm assuming that "2 very poor performances" refers to Sproule and LJ - and that they were our worst players on the night?

It is LJ's job to get the passing game going and he was playing out of position I understand. Was Sproule playing centre-forward??

All that said - GJ now says they were all dying of the lergy etc - well if true fair enough - they played like it!!

Hehe.

Gotta wonder if some of these bugs are avoidable. I'd be employing one of those guys they line up for epidemic control by now.

but he said he thought we were the worst side he had seen - no attacking flair at all - on that he was probably about right - we only had two good chances one early doors and one in the last second - all that said ol Costa Coffee looks a good'un to me.

We're still trying to integrate Sno and the 3-1-2-1-2 or whatever it is.

So early days yet. Not to mention the lergy.

Still I'm down the Gate on Saturday for first time this season so I'll see for myself. I'll probably take a .

[NickJ]

Thanks dude, sad when we have to go out of our way to avoid sounding like the usual detractors.

I'm assuming that "2 very poor performances" refers to Sproule and LJ - and that they were our worst players on the night?

It is LJ's job to get the passing game going and he was playing out of position I understand. Was Sproule playing centre-forward??

The official site had LJ down as playing centre midfield. What position did he play?

Reports I've seen had Sproule and Sobario as a strike pairing with Sno playing in a wide left position?

[greyfriars red]

I couldn't make the game due to prior engagments but a good friend of mine is a Swans fan, what he made of the game is similer to your taxi drivers view. Both teams didnt play that great and he also thought the Swans had more chances and would have deserved the 3 points, bare in mind City had a great chance in the last min to take all 3 they have their keeper to thank for pulling off a great save.

A team is only as good as it's weekest player, as said in a previous reply, if GJ thinks their good enough then the fans should trust his choice.

[mindjuicer]

The official site had LJ down as playing centre midfield. What position did he play?

Reports I've seen had Sproule and Sobario as a strike pairing with Sno playing in a wide left position?

We're supposed to be playing a diamond shape in the middle according to my informant.

This game the diamond was supposed to be pushing forward.

So Hartley was supposed to be playing deep, Sno playing forwards, LJ on the left, Elliott on the right I think. So all of them & Sproule playing out of position.

[Markman]

To clarify my post - the unintentional pun on Dire and Dyer missed me completely!

The 2 poor performances - I actually meant both Teams rather than IS and LJ - there were possibly 15 poor performances on the pitch - IS and LJ amongst them.

Where did LJ play - I think someone else on here has said it was a diamond formation - I would suggest more of a "clump" formation but if being very kind "rough diamond"!

[NickJ]

We're supposed to be playing a diamond shape in the middle according to my informant.

This game the diamond was supposed to be pushing forward.

So Hartley was supposed to be playing deep, Sno playing forwards, LJ on the left, Elliott on the right I think. So all of them & Sproule playing out of position.

So you are saying that Johnson, Hartley, Elliott, Sno and Sproule were all playing out of position?

I dont see how thats possible unless GJ had some sort of head fit.

I can see how asking say McCombe to play left wing would be out of position, but surely with Elliott, Hartley and Johnson all playing somewhere in midfield, and Sproule and Sno playing somewhere up front or midfield, or both, none of them were so out of position it should affect their game that much?

[Markman]

So you are saying that Johnson, Hartley, Elliott, Sno and Sproule were all playing out of position?

I dont see how thats possible unless GJ had some sort of head fit.

I can see how asking say McCombe to play left wing would be out of position, but surely with Elliott, Hartley and Johnson all playing somewhere in midfield, and Sproule and Sno playing somewhere up front or midfield, or both, none of them were so out of position it should affect their game that much?

I am not saying they were asked to play out of position - just that the position they all fell into was a clump not a diamond!

[NickJ]

I am not saying they were asked to play out of position - just that the position they all fell into was a clump not a diamond!

I'm not questioning you - it wasnt you saying they were all played out of position.

That was Mindjuicer and I'm intrigued to see the reply!!

Diamonds and clumps apart, do you think, as someone who was there, that anyone was played deliberately out of position?

I doubt very much that was the case, but Mindjuicer seems to think so!!

[Markman]

I'm not questioning you - it wasnt you saying they were all played out of position.

That was Mindjuicer and I'm intrigued to see the reply!!

Diamonds and clumps apart, do you think, as someone who was there, that anyone was played deliberately out of position?

I doubt very much that was the case, but Mindjuicer seems to think so!!

No - I dont really think that (sorry if I got posts confused) I just think they "interchanged" quite a lot and at times it looked confused - I think I would sum it up best by saying it was a bit school boy football - at times a blanket could cover 16 - 18 players - GJ was doing quite a lot of shouting so I don't think the team were very disciplined on the field - he seemed to know what he wanted them to do but I am not sure the players were doing it.

The truth is the point was ok - but 3 pts were there for the taking and we played dourly (rather than dyerly) big improvement needed Saturday to be sure we will beat Scunny.

[mindjuicer]

I can see how asking say McCombe to play left wing would be out of position, but surely with Elliott, Hartley and Johnson all playing somewhere in midfield, and Sproule and Sno playing somewhere up front or midfield, or both, none of them were so out of position it should affect their game that much?

No, not that much but it's a bit like driving a right-hand drive car. You're just not going to be that comfortable, won't be in the right place/space, will be receiving the ball from angles you're not used to and your role isn't that clear in your mind.

To us it doesn't seem like a big deal but they're much more used to playing one way and aren't allowed to make mistakes.

Thanks for pointing out that LJ and Sproule didn't play worse than the others. They'll probably both start tomorrow so I'll get to see for myself.