Tunley Legend Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Bit unfair maybe; wouldn't call Adebola 'controversial' club offerd him 1-year rather than 2. You could argue about mwerits or otherwise of that but it's hardly a falling out. Styvar and Trundle transfers didn't appear to have worked, could be labelling bad signings by Johnson but again hardly 'controversial'. McIndoe has long history of moving on quickly. Agree Bridges and Stewart clash of personalities, not his signings etc but hardly set the world alight after leaving. Phillips threw his toys out the pram ,has done the same at Rovers. And Blackman if it was disciplinary, well there's been enough posts on here moaning about lack of discipline in years gone by. Over a period of four-and-half years I wouldn't say it's excessive. You could point to plenty of Man.utd players going through the revolving door for various reasons including challenging the manager. More people seem to have gone through the revolving door at Ashton Gate due to "differences", whether acrimonius or not, than I can remember for any other Manager in my lifetime. I actually forgot Nick Carle on my list too!! Buying someone for £500K and then loaning them out to Greece only a few months later is controversial in my view and leads me to question the merits of the person recommending such foreign signings to the club. Especially when you look at the contribution of Saborio so far as well (although to be fair to him he is probably a victim of our narrow playing style more than lacking in ability). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 We know he hasn't done much since which is why Colin transfer listed him. Last I heard he was heading back to Oz to play for Newcastle. I suspect the reason he listed him is the same one we did and the one thing I'm sure of is that Carle's next destination will be a club near a bookies. I reckon one of the reasons Simon Jaffa has such a bee in his bonnet about BCFC is that we didn't tell him about Carle's love of horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I suspect the reason he listed him is the same one we did and the one thing I'm sure of is that Carle's next destination will be a club near a bookies. I reckon one of the reasons Simon Jaffa has such a bee in his bonnet about BCFC is that we didn't tell him about Carle's love of horses. Having worked myself in Newcastle , New South Wales on a few occasions I can assure Nick there are some right old Nags that live and work there !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 One point that Nibor does make which you have to consider is that more players have controversially left the club under his management than from any other Manager in living memory. Basso (contract dispute?) Stewart (clash of personalities) Blackman (disciplinary) Bridges (contract dispute) Flapper (clash of personalities) Adebola (contract dispute) Styvar (crap) Trundle (crap? admits coming here was a "big mistake") McIndoe (too much to say and didn't want to play in central midfield) Perhaps Johnson is just plain unlucky in this regard or perhaps he is a bloody difficult character to work for. The cynical side of me says you have to wonder how he would have treated Gerken for his Park Street "incident" if it wasn't for the fact that the lad has won points for us left, right and centre this season. on first look at that the cynic in me certainly thinks there is something wrong with what GJ is doing but when you think about them individually its quite good to see that GJ AND SL (the second being very important) wont put up with a player or agent taking the pi$$ and standing his ground over financial issues - the ones you label as "clash of personalities" could quite as easily be labelled as "Lack of professionalism by the player". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristoliain Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 One point that Nibor does make which you have to consider is that more players have controversially left the club under his management than from any other Manager in living memory. Basso (contract dispute?) Stewart (clash of personalities) Blackman (disciplinary) Bridges (contract dispute) Flapper (clash of personalities) Adebola (contract dispute) Styvar (crap) Trundle (crap? admits coming here was a "big mistake") McIndoe (too much to say and didn't want to play in central midfield) Perhaps Johnson is just plain unlucky in this regard or perhaps he is a bloody difficult character to work for. The cynical side of me says you have to wonder how he would have treated Gerken for his Park Street "incident" if it wasn't for the fact that the lad has won points for us left, right and centre this season. I wouldnt say Dele left controversially, we offered him a deal, he didn't take it and moved on without complaint from either side. And how is being crap deemed controversial? Yes they were mistakes by the management but I don't think you can term them as "controversially left the club" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 on first look at that the cynic in me certainly thinks there is something wrong with what GJ is doing but when you think about them individually its quite good to see that GJ AND SL (the second being very important) wont put up with a player or agent taking the pi$$ and standing his ground over financial issues - the ones you label as "clash of personalities" could quite as easily be labelled as "Lack of professionalism by the player". Absolutely, under GJ's immediate predecessor just as many players left for the same reason in an even shorter time in charge, Coles, Doherty, Roberts, Peacock, Goodfellow and the utterly useless Tony Dinning to name but six. The difference was that we've progressed under GJ, we didn't under Tinnion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave60 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 The facts that any of us know are whats in the public domain- Basso/his agent doesn't seem averse to dishing out the briefings, he's hardly played the team man has he? If there's more to it than that why hasn't he leaked it out? Transfer request just before the season, statements put out to Sky when a contract was still on the table - yea calculated disloyalty. Who's to say if Weale was leaving whatever - if he thought he was first-choice he would probably have stayed. I'm not too fussed about that as Gerken/Henderson are more than adequate and as good as you are likely to get at this level. As for any idea Johnson fell out of love with Basso and wanted him of; if anything I think he and Lansdown have bent over backwards and given him numerous chances to rethink and sign. In fact you'd could argue too many chances and have not been strong enough over the thing. Yes Basso has pulled off some stunning saves in some memorable games but he seemed to start believing his own publicity along time ago and has never exactly had a death or glory mentality when it came to shaking off knocks, remember late pulling out for injuries more than once. We've done Ok out of his contribution but he's done more than ok out of City. Try reading this http://www.ziderheads.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinker Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 It's like a pathetic infant school squabble. Basso is under contract to play for BCFC until June 2010, at that time, there is no obligation on either party to renew the contract. None of us really have a clue what is going on behind the scenes, but it has resulted in us paying a good goalkeeper to do nothing. Quite why he handed in a transfer request, and we dropped him for telling Sky that he was not signing are beyond me, after all, the latter statement hardly came as a shock. I just get the impression that both parties have been a bit stubborn and stupid, and if handled better, Basso would have stayed until the end of the season as part of the first team squad. That would have given us 12 Months to sort out a replacement, surely long enough. And if he left in the meantime, well no other Club seems to have problems recruiting a loan signing. A very sad end to the City career of a very good keeper, and a true character. Not until the Fat Lay errr guy sings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Try reading this http://www.ziderheads.co.uk/ Ah yes, Ziderheads - otherwise known as the "We know **** all so we're going to make it up and that's ok as long as you slag off the manager or his son" forum. I don't believe flat-earthers either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Ah yes, Ziderheads - otherwise known as the "We know **** all so we're going to make it up and that's ok as long as you slag off the manager or his son" forum. I don't believe flat-earthers either. Absolutely nothing to do with the thread title just a bit of abuse for what is a down to earth say how it is site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Agreed. People tend to gravitate there after a hissy fit or a ban from here. Football rumours has more gravitas than that place. Disagree;thats in your opinion; in reality not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Agreed. People tend to gravitate there after a hissy fit or a ban from here. Football rumours has more gravitas than that place. Now that is very unfair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Absolutely nothing to do with the thread title just a bit of abuse for what is a down to earth say how it is site I don't dislike that forum I actually prefer it to this one but to say it is "down to earth say how it is" is a bit far from the truth - its more like "This is what my mate heard that I cant post on OTIB because it has no essence of truth" it is funny seeing what people come up with though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Not at all, I stand by that - it's full of bullshit from people who would like others to think they are "in the know" and some prominent posters have either been banned from here or left after a hissy fit. The highlighted bit is true, but the majority stay over there by choice now. A number are actively missed on here imo, but they seem to have developed an entrenched "them and us" attitude towards posters on OTIB, which is a bit unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 The facts that any of us know are whats in the public domain- Basso/his agent doesn't seem averse to dishing out the briefings, he's hardly played the team man has he? If there's more to it than that why hasn't he leaked it out? Transfer request just before the season, statements put out to Sky when a contract was still on the table - yea calculated disloyalty. Who's to say if Weale was leaving whatever - if he thought he was first-choice he would probably have stayed. I'm not too fussed about that as Gerken/Henderson are more than adequate and as good as you are likely to get at this level. As for any idea Johnson fell out of love with Basso and wanted him of; if anything I think he and Lansdown have bent over backwards and given him numerous chances to rethink and sign. In fact you'd could argue too many chances and have not been strong enough over the thing. Yes Basso has pulled off some stunning saves in some memorable games but he seemed to start believing his own publicity along time ago and has never exactly had a death or glory mentality when it came to shaking off knocks, remember late pulling out for injuries more than once. We've done Ok out of his contribution but he's done more than ok out of City. Well me old mate we all have to ask if that which is in he public domain is enough of a basis for you to make sweeping, predudicial statements about a man that most of us believe to be an honourable, inspirational goal-keeper. A key part of our promotion. Who has most control over the so-called "public domain" information, the club or the player? Do you swallow everything you're fed? As to your stupid assertion about his loyalty/committment/fitness, you may not have been there when he was knocked senseless at Tranmere and carried on or witnessed him refusing to go off when he had dislocated his finger last season at Ashton Gate. I'm very sorrow to say again that us Bristol City people, club employees and fans, have a very unattractive habit of being vindictive to players that have played a crucial role for us at important times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 it's full of bullshit from people who would like others to think they are "in the know" Could the same not be said for some on here ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmabbuttshair Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Ah yes, Ziderheads - otherwise known as the "We know **** all so we're going to make it up and that's ok as long as you slag off the manager or his son" forum. I don't believe flat-earthers either. Why don't you put in an appearance then and maybe you can judge for yourself, Mr GJ can do no wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmabbuttshair Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Not at all, I stand by that - it's full of bullshit from people who would like others to think they are "in the know" and some prominent posters have either been banned from here or left after a hissy fit. If you think it is bullshit then why don't you pay a visit, with your like minded mucker, cheese, to argue your case. Instead of hiding here spouting party rhetoric, or maybe a contrary view isn't something you like to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Why don't you put in an appearance then and maybe you can judge for yourself, Mr GJ can do no wrong? Ah Mr Mabbutt - another poster liking to make assumptions about my habits. I've been there many times to "put in an appearance" as you put it. The rules on here prevent me from saying what I think of the place. As for your second assumption - please show me where I have said Mr GJ can do no wrong - I won't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmabbuttshair Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Ah Mr Mabbutt - another poster liking to make assumptions about my habits. I've been there many times to "put in an appearance" as you put it. The rules on here prevent me from saying what I think of the place. As for your second assumption - please show me where I have said Mr GJ can do no wrong - I won't hold my breath. Credit where it is due, you always imply never say it and are very good at it. As for what you may think of the place the fact that you don't get it says volumes, opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Credit where it is due, you always imply never say it and are very good at it. As for what you may think of the place the fact that you don't get it says volumes, opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one Oh I get it - believe me I get it. Doesn't change my opinion at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man In Black Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Libel; the crime of publishing a false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation. You need to check out our screwed up libel laws before you think it's as simple as that http://www.libelreform.org/ Clik would have to prove that the allegations were true. And without an internal view of what's going on in the club, how could they do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristoliain Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 You need to check out our screwed up libel laws before you think it's as simple as that http://www.libelreform.org/ Clik would have to prove that the allegations were true. And without an internal view of what's going on in the club, how could they do that? They didn't have to prove it actually, is they can argue that if the comments, true or not, were made in a malicious manner they can seek compensation and/or a retraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Has he got a new club yet? 1 day left to find one otherwise hes gonna look very stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Your post is a good example of how easy it is to confuse who said what and fact from opinion. GJ has said he's been offered a good contract. He made allusions to Basso thinking he can get better elsewhere in the summer. He's said no offer has been made since transfer listing him. He's recently said that Basso's gripe is over an approach that he thinks was made over a year go. This all from bcfc.co.uk interviews. The evil post suggested the reasons are financial, that the offer would have made him the best paid player and that Basso went against his agent's advice in not signing. None of this backed with quotes so it's basically editorial dreamed up by them on the basis of "off the record" hearsay from someone at the club. Basso has never spoken publicly ( ie in the press, on the official site or on the radio) about his reasons for not signing, when asked by fans he has in private given several very different reasons and emphasised more than once "don't believe the papers". For me the inconsistencies are: - that Basso is wrong about a club enquiring about him (this can be resolved with one phone call to the club in question) - that Basso, who's been nothing but a positive influence on the whole club in the past, is wholly to blame for this apparent dispute and GJ who has had fall outs with numerous players is 100% in the right - that Basso thinks he is good enough to get a Premier League contract at 34 - that Basso is stupid enough to turn down the best contract offer he is going to get taking him into retirement on such a flimsy hope - that we'd ever make an offer to Basso to make him the best paid player - the amount of unsubstantiated editorial accompanying the press articles on the subject which also contain quotes from the club I find much of that very unlikely. I suspect the club knocked back some interest (not an offer, just enquiry) a while ago without consulting the player as they were about to negotiate an extension. I would guess that this, coupled with a couple of other dressing room type reasons that cannot be posted on here and the offer to Kelvin Davis has made him dig his heels in. brilliant post. i was only saying something similar to someone the other day. first it was about money, now its not. i'd be stunned if all of this was bassos fault as we are trying to be led to beleive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Your post is a good example of how easy it is to confuse who said what and fact from opinion. GJ has said he's been offered a good contract. He made allusions to Basso thinking he can get better elsewhere in the summer. He's said no offer has been made since transfer listing him. He's recently said that Basso's gripe is over an approach that he thinks was made over a year go. This all from bcfc.co.uk interviews. The evil post suggested the reasons are financial, that the offer would have made him the best paid player and that Basso went against his agent's advice in not signing. None of this backed with quotes so it's basically editorial dreamed up by them on the basis of "off the record" hearsay from someone at the club. Basso has never spoken publicly ( ie in the press, on the official site or on the radio) about his reasons for not signing, when asked by fans he has in private given several very different reasons and emphasised more than once "don't believe the papers". For me the inconsistencies are: - that Basso is wrong about a club enquiring about him (this can be resolved with one phone call to the club in question) - that Basso, who's been nothing but a positive influence on the whole club in the past, is wholly to blame for this apparent dispute and GJ who has had fall outs with numerous players is 100% in the right - that Basso thinks he is good enough to get a Premier League contract at 34 - that Basso is stupid enough to turn down the best contract offer he is going to get taking him into retirement on such a flimsy hope - that we'd ever make an offer to Basso to make him the best paid player - the amount of unsubstantiated editorial accompanying the press articles on the subject which also contain quotes from the club I find much of that very unlikely. I suspect the club knocked back some interest (not an offer, just enquiry) a while ago without consulting the player as they were about to negotiate an extension. I would guess that this, coupled with a couple of other dressing room type reasons that cannot be posted on here and the offer to Kelvin Davis has made him dig his heels in. No, you miss my point, i didnt put "fact" or "opinion" in my post , so not a good example i'm afraid. i was asking whether it was fair enough to say some posters believe that GJ and, to some extent, Sl have been lying to us?? That Basso may have fallen out with another player would not surprise me in the least as it is part and parcel of football as is other players coming in as competition and if he is leaving because of either reason i would be amazed. If we are just hypothesizing then oh i dont know lets say Basso waited for Weale to leave then bumped up his contract demands , the club offered him less and he refused to sign. Hows that? Total fantasy? I really think the truth is as mundane as it seems. Basso offered contract, Basso doesnt sign because he thinks he can do better. If it was Basso doesnt like GJ/unnamed player/competition anymore I dont think GJ would be bothered at all about fessing up to a fall out ,he would say something like " time for Adriano to move on" as he did with McIndoe. What i am fairly sure of is that certain individuals have made as much capital out of this as possible in order to try to de-stabalise Gj's position at this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 The highlighted bit is true, but the majority stay over there by choice now. A number are actively missed on here imo, but they seem to have developed an entrenched "them and us" attitude towards posters on OTIB, which is a bit unnecessary. Not only that but , ironically enough seeing as the posters all seem to think we toe a party line on otib , anyone not cursing GJ is showered with s**t. Mind you Ashtonyate's on there and Uncle Rog etc etc so its worth a visit just for that........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 No, you miss my point, i didnt put "fact" or "opinion" in my post , so not a good example i'm afraid. i was asking whether it was fair enough to say some posters believe that GJ and, to some extent, Sl have been lying to us?? That Basso may have fallen out with another player would not surprise me in the least as it is part and parcel of football as is other players coming in as competition and if he is leaving because of either reason i would be amazed. If we are just hypothesizing then oh i dont know lets say Basso waited for Weale to leave then bumped up his contract demands , the club offered him less and he refused to sign. Hows that? Total fantasy? I really think the truth is as mundane as it seems. Basso offered contract, Basso doesnt sign because he thinks he can do better. If it was Basso doesnt like GJ/unnamed player/competition anymore I dont think GJ would be bothered at all about fessing up to a fall out ,he would say something like " time for Adriano to move on" as he did with McIndoe. What i am fairly sure of is that certain individuals have made as much capital out of this as possible in order to try to de-stabalise Gj's position at this club. I didn't miss your point as you didn't make one, I merely answered both your questions and corrected your assertions which were actually based on unsubstantiated paper talk. You've only heard GJ's side of the story and far from anybody using this to de-stabilize the manager's position he's got off with barely a question raised as to why one of the fans favourite players with a superb attitude and a key contributor to our promotion wants to leave without even having a better offer. GJ's carefully managing the message in the media as ever. Outright lying? No. Misleading and not telling the full truth? Certainly. Please don't be naive. I think the hypothesis I posted is a lot more reasonable and fits the facts better than the one GJ is asking us to believe. I suspect if Basso doesn't find a new club in January the other side of the story will come out in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmabbuttshair Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 I've paid numerous visits. And on the last one I said exactly what I felt about the site. Hiding ? How can you hide on a forum ? You need to get a life mate. So the contrary view is upsetting for you, never mind, carry on believing all that BCFC spout if you so wish, just drop the " mate " bit , I ain't no friend of yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRitchie'sBoots Posted January 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Well me old mate we all have to ask if that which is in he public domain is enough of a basis for you to make sweeping, predudicial statements about a man that most of us believe to be an honourable, inspirational goal-keeper. A key part of our promotion. Who has most control over the so-called "public domain" information, the club or the player? Do you swallow everything you're fed? As to your stupid assertion about his loyalty/committment/fitness, you may not have been there when he was knocked senseless at Tranmere and carried on or witnessed him refusing to go off when he had dislocated his finger last season at Ashton Gate. I'm very sorrow to say again that us Bristol City people, club employees and fans, have a very unattractive habit of being vindictive to players that have played a crucial role for us at important times. Conspiracy theories abound but no substantial information exists; all we here is hushed whispers about Basso being stiched up by the club, no-one can go on record because of libel etc etc etc etc. Sorry, I don't buy it - it's not N/Korea!! Of course the club has far more official access to the media, own websites etc, and obviously journos especially local ones who rely on the access to Johnson/club will be wary of upsetting the club by backing controversail stories but - as Basson and his agent have demonstrated thru use of Sky - there are plenty of ways of getting stories out. Swallow everything? Hope not, Fact not disputed by anyone to my knowledge - Basso has been offered a new contract on many occasions and offered chance to rethink by Johnson and Lansdown (and actually as I've said I think to an excessive degree that makes the club look weak), fact he had all summer to do it but requested a transfer on the eve of the season with Weale gone. I don't regard that as particularly loyal. Key part of our promotion? Absolutely, essential part. I'd go further; no play-off final without some of his stunning saves and a lot less points last season as well without his saves (could say the same for Gerken this season). But he's done alright too - plucked from obscurity and given his chance by City etc etc. Vindictive? Hardly. To be honest, if the other story on here is to be believed then the offer to tear up his contract if it ever existed may now have been withdrawn so it's all a bit academic. In which case unless there are other clubs out there keen to have him (and that seems a bit unlikely) then Basso will simply run his contract down without playing any football and leave in the summer having effectively lost a year at an age when I'm sure he wouldn't feel he could afford to. Sad end all round really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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