Nice Overreaction

[chinapig]

The fact is our defence has been slowly disentegrating in confidence over the last few months. TBH we could have played a back 4 of Douglas Bader; Stephen Hawking; Joey Deacon and my 2-year-old daughter and still put in more tackles than we did when Chopra scored his second goal!

Gary hasn't addressed this and he deserves all the flack he's catching tonight. BUT as I've said elsewhere I don't think we'll get anywhere by taking the QPR route. We need to give the man the chance to put right the abject failing of tonight.

You're right he hasn't addressed it but then again he, and the majority of people on here, have never acknowledged there is such a problem in the first place. Gary has shrugged off the endless late goals (where would we be in the table without them?) as no big deal. Meanwhile the majority of fans believed we needed to play with 2 orthodox wingers. The result? 2 wingers who did no defending at all (contrast with the tireless tracking back by McIndoe and Sproule) and 2 central midfielders overwhelmed by the opposition (not that Hartley showed much appetite for defending anyway; Lee Johnson would have been crucified for such a performance). So an already shaky defence was even more exposed than usual. I have found myself remarking a lot recently that whenever the opposition play a long ball forward there will be at least one player completely unmarked. The centre backs seem to fall asleep and the full backs no longer cover them. Add to all that the fact that the work rate is nowhere near what it used to be and you have a recipe for disaster. As much as people like to dream of us ripping Championship sides apart with scintillating wing play, given the quality of player we can attract our best bet remains trying to be as hard to beat as possible first, as we were in our first season back. An experienced dominant centre half would be a nice start. But can we afford one having squandered money on less important positions?

[Geoff65]

Different forum but a couple of posts from a Forest fan that sums it it up:

Football is about entertainment. Bristol City are one of the most negative sides in the division, composed of unspectacular grinders who, even when they do win, manage it in such a manner as to make it seem like they haven't. They lack three of the most exciting things in football; proper wingers, pace, and midfield dynamism. As much as you may look upon them and say that they are currently meeting the expectations, pretty much exactly as you would require them, you cannot possibly pretend away the disillusionment of the fans with the continually negative frame of mind around the football club. Bristol City are slowly regressing as a football club, and no matter where a side is positioned a 0-6 defeat in a home match is never acceptable. Sometimes a club has to change if progress is necessary. Throughout their time in this league Bristol City have been a club based on percentages. I even read that Gary Johnson sets a great deal by statistical analysis as opposed to pure footballing analysis, which says a lot. I think when you look at a club like Doncaster who play a far more attractive brand of football on an inferior budget, you can understand why Bristol City fans don't want to witness turgid football, particularly at home, where they pack the midfield and seem unable to muster chances. I'm sure it is with some reluctance that they are realisng it's time to move on.

Campbell-Ryce is a good player but he has only just been bought, and even within his ability he is one of those mercurial wingers who will beat the same man thrice before delivering a rubbish ball. When I say 'focused wingers' I'm talking about end product. You don't even need pace as much if you've two David Beckhams. But that's beside the point. When Bristol City came to The City Ground they set out to spoil the game and it was not apparent that they even intended to exploit the width. We only play one winger at the moment in Anderson with Cohen playing on the right-wing. But we use the full-backs so much on the overlap that it doesn't matter, and the strikers come out to the wings as well - width isn't just about having wingers, it's about intent, it's about stretching the opposition, making the space out wide and then having two or three players to exploit it. Now I haven't seen a great deal of Bristol City but they seem to lack both the intent and, until perhaps adding JCR to the fray, the ability to exploit the width. And in lieu of a midfield dynamo like Majewski in the centre, you're going to have to use the width at this level.

You say we don't have a midfielder who can create, but we do. We have eight players in fact who are involved in the creation of goals, simply by retaining the ball, stretching the play, then finding the pass that allows an Anderson, Cohen, Majewski, Blackstock or Earnshaw to make the magic happen. Just because they are not directly responsible for goal-scoring doesn't mean they are not involved on a major level. Personally, I don't wish to try and judge and analyse Bristol City as a whole - I just find Gary Johnson's sides to be dour and largely pretty one-dimensional (a view I put forward in a much earlier 'GJ Out' thread) and thought I'd add my two-penneth's worth of backing to those Bristol City fans who are being branded as fickle by other opposition fans. There are no doubt those who will say 'football is a business' and therefore that entertainment isn't an aim, but that simply isn't true. Good sides are good sides, often by virtue of the fact that they have some endearing feature about them. In the process of being a good side and entertaining, you also encourage money to come into the club and therefore by virtue of good footballing intent you gain good business.

But then, I don't see how you can say football is a business anyway when I believe Lansdown is operating Bristol City in a similar manner to Doughty at Forest - money loaned to the club. It strikes me that in this case Bristol City are one man's pleasure, and I'm sure that he would prefer to watch a side play football, or at least some small measure of it, than dawdle in the middle of the Championship, treading water in the most boring of manners. It's not hard to play football and there are plenty of replacements (see Tisdale) who would happily set about with good, positive intent. Obviously it's a risk to sack a manager, but this is not a strong division and Lansdown doesn't seem to have made any spectacularly bad decisions thus far. I'm sure if he is prepared to back a new man in the same way as he backed Johnson with the type of fee required to sign Maynard and the type of wages for that lazy piece of crap Sno the club could play in a more attractive manner than this. I suppose it comes down to your preference - boring mediocrity, attractive mediocrity, perhaps the opportunity of a dalliance with the play-offs again (something that looks unlikely at the moment). And there's obviously a risk it could all go wrong anyway.

Let's face it, with your currently backwards momentum it's not impossible that things could slowly deteriorate to that point even with Johnson. Managers in this league have surely got the number of his side by now.

[Mr Mosquito]

Different forum but a couple of posts from a Forest fan that sums it it up:

I don't know much about the Forest team. With regard to what the Forest supporter has written about our club, I can't argue with any of it. The turkeys are well and truely home to roost in Gary Johnson's backyard.

We're going to be on the end of some real drubbings if more teams play as Cardiff did against us. I really can't see that there has been any over reaction at all to Tuesday evenings result, I watched the lot and it was a true rout and Cardiff weren't lucky in the slightest with that win because they were by far the better team playing by far the better tactics. If anyone thinks that's a bit harsh toward the manager and players here then they should have supported City 20/30 years ago when the reaction would have been far more robust to a Cardiff 0-6 home defeat.

[mindjuicer]

I don't know much about the Forest team. With regard to what the Forest supporter has written about our club, I can't argue with any of it.

I can but who cares what some Forest supporter thinks.   

We're going to be on the end of some real drubbings if more teams play as Cardiff did against us.

If you're that sure, put some money on it.

I really can't see that there has been any over reaction at all to Tuesday evenings result, I watched the lot and it was a true rout and Cardiff weren't lucky in the slightest with that win because they were by far the better team playing by far the better tactics. If anyone thinks that's a bit harsh toward the manager and players here then they should have supported City 20/30 years ago when the reaction would have been far more robust to a Cardiff 0-6 home defeat.

Your reaction seems quite measured.  I'm talking about the people who are doing the equivalent of throwing their toys out of their pram.