The Way I See It

[numbeast]

_{I have a question, are we in such a bad position? I know there are many supporters who feel let down by the style and quality of football we are playing whilst others seem to thrive on the chance to drive nails into Gary Johnson's coffin. Then there is the "crisis? What crisis?" group branded "Happy Clappers" by many on here. But what do we really expect?}

_{The League this season is tight and we find ourselves in the middle a position some would say is close to the playoffs and others see it as a few points off of relegation. The thing is both are right. There's a small number of forum users who have a distinct disliking of our manager and regardless of any success will always find the negative (even in the fact we got to the playoffs in our first season in the championship) but these people are well known to most regular users and can be listened to or ignored as one chooses.}

_{Quite often I read about someone or other not renewing their season ticket because of lack of entertainment or the cluelessness of Gary Johnson but when they get a response from someone who say "don't bother then" they get very defensive. Now the last thing I want to see is season ticket holders leaving in their droves but if you are going to threaten to take this action that is your choice not GJ's or the person who has replied to you. And should we stick with the manager and by some chance get promoted next season and you didn't renew please don't complain about the glory hunters when you find the ST's are all sold.}

_{The other side of this is that all is not well down at BS3 results and performances are below expectations which I feel isn't helped by Gary publically declaring we are aiming for a top 2 place and failing to find the consistency to string a couple of wins together. In my opinion he would be better saying that staying in this league is the priority for the moment and anything beyond that would be a bonus. We overachieved in our first season in the CCC and we all enjoyed it. But on the down side of that it raised expectations for some of our supporters that we haven't lived up to in the following years. The reality of it is I have supported City for nearly 40 years and that was only the second time in those 40 years we have been close to reaching the top tier of English Football so these last two seasons it hasn't surprised me we have failed to replicate it.}

_{It appears GJ has the backing of the best chairman we've had, certainly since Harry Dolman and in my view SL is perhaps better than the grand old man of Bristol City. Now I'm sure Steve would like to see us in the top six vying for a place in the Premier League but he also seems to be happy enough with the longer term goals and being up in those dizzy heights when we have our new stadium. He is also the one man who knows Gary Johnson better than anyone on this forum (unless we have any of his family members on here) so is in a far better position to make the decision regarding who is the right man to take this club forward. The football club isn't the only place he appoints managers and those he appoints within his business are dealing with amounts of investors money that would make BCFC's finances seem like a child's pocket money savings account so I think he knows how to pick a good man for the job and also when to release him/her from it when their performance dictates. Which brings me back to those thinking of not renewing their ST. Mr. Lansdown must realise there is the potential for a drop in sales and no one even outside the finance industry wants a lower cash flow but I would say by him supporting the manager he knows something we as fans don't, what that is I don't know.}

_{The pro Johnson supporters do tend to over use the argument of past glories earning him time but to me past glories are what you talk about in the pub before a game and as such don't hold too much relevance to this season. But some of the Anti GJ camp are right in pointing this out but then trawl history to highlight the less successful time. Which way is it? If the past successes count for nothing then it would follow neither do the past failings.}

_{On the surface I can see why support for the manager is being questioned and believe he is not above criticism (though some of the abuse hurled at him at times on here is disgusting and I sincerely hope it's by the younger less experienced element of fans) We are not anything near as dire as we were in the early 80's neither is it good as the blood and guts survival seasons under Terry Cooper (my personal favorite manager of this club)}

_{We all remember the Legend that is Brian Tinnion this is the legend that submitted a transfer request because of the abuse he, his wife and their young children had to endure from certain sections of our "Loyal" group of supporters. Had he have left we would have lost out on a true City legend and that would have been thanks to our wonderful fans who would have been proud of themselves.}

_{To me Gary is a good manager who has tried to mix and match to stop us being the predictable side some of our own supporters accuse us of.}

_{Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on this forum but they also have the right to have that view respected without the fear of personal abuse. This goes for both sides of the divide clappers and moaner, and sum suggestion of you not agreeing with someone else's shouldn't become a question of who is a closet Sag. Many good debatable threads on here get hijacked by those with a hidden agenda. GJ is not the messiah or is he hell bent on running the club into the ground. He must take his share of the responsibility as the boss but so should all those who pull on that red shirt and we shouldn't forget the meaning of the words supporter and fan.}

_{The good ship Bristol City is suffering in the stormy season of this season but we are all hoping for better weather soon. To my mind getting in a new man at this stage of the season would be a disaster and as long as we don't plummet down the table then I would not like to see a change in management. If GJ gets us though the season and keeps in at least the Championship. Come May after the last ball has been kicked in anger then and only then should the chairman question the manager and at this point should G J fail to impress SL the it could be bye bye Gary. In the mean time us fans should rally around the team as a whole and give everyone at AG our full backing and vocal support.}

_{(if this post doesn't make any sense please accept my apologies my meds have kicked in this is the reason I can't get down to the Gate)I hope this comes across as balanced and not bias either way. So come on you City supporters stick together and believe. Worse things happen at (well near) sea just ask any plymuff supporter}

[Hicksy-BCFC]

_{I have a question, are we in such a bad position?}

I see what you are saying, I really do.

All I would say is that through the history of the football league, sides that have gone down as a benchmark draw too many at home and lose too many away.

Right now, that's us.

Also a bad run is one thing if you are unlucky. Reading, Watford etc all coming and scoring last minute you can say, oh that's bad luck.

If you don't go to the games and look at the times of goals etc you could think that it will turn around.

However at the games, what people who don't go down there don't see is that these sides are coming to AG at are actually better than us and the equalisers are deserved.

Being unlucky and playing well is ok, laws of averages show you'll win sooner or later and get out of the rutt.

Losing or drawing and being bereft of ideas, just lumping the ball forward in kick & hope and being outplayed is quite another.

Now I don't class Coventry in with that, but on the whole I am now going down to AG kind of half expecting the opposition to be a better football team than us.

Not exactly ideal.

If we continue to draw at home at best and lose away, we'll go down. I make no bones about that.

[leedsred]

_{I have a question, are we in such a bad position? I know there are many supporters who feel let down by the style and quality of football we are playing whilst others seem to thrive on the chance to drive nails into Gary Johnson's coffin. Then there is the "crisis? What crisis?" group branded "Happy Clappers" by many on here. But what do we really expect?}

_{The League this season is tight and we find ourselves in the middle a position some would say is close to the playoffs and others see it as a few points off of relegation. The thing is both are right. There's a small number of forum users who have a distinct disliking of our manager and regardless of any success will always find the negative (even in the fact we got to the playoffs in our first season in the championship) but these people are well known to most regular users and can be listened to or ignored as one chooses.}

_{Quite often I read about someone or other not renewing their season ticket because of lack of entertainment or the cluelessness of Gary Johnson but when they get a response from someone who say "don't bother then" they get very defensive. Now the last thing I want to see is season ticket holders leaving in their droves but if you are going to threaten to take this action that is your choice not GJ's or the person who has replied to you. And should we stick with the manager and by some chance get promoted next season and you didn't renew please don't complain about the glory hunters when you find the ST's are all sold.}

_{The other side of this is that all is not well down at BS3 results and performances are below expectations which I feel isn't helped by Gary publically declaring we are aiming for a top 2 place and failing to find the consistency to string a couple of wins together. In my opinion he would be better saying that staying in this league is the priority for the moment and anything beyond that would be a bonus. We overachieved in our first season in the CCC and we all enjoyed it. But on the down side of that it raised expectations for some of our supporters that we haven't lived up to in the following years. The reality of it is I have supported City for nearly 40 years and that was only the second time in those 40 years we have been close to reaching the top tier of English Football so these last two seasons it hasn't surprised me we have failed to replicate it.}

_{It appears GJ has the backing of the best chairman we've had, certainly since Harry Dolman and in my view SL is perhaps better than the grand old man of Bristol City. Now I'm sure Steve would like to see us in the top six vying for a place in the Premier League but he also seems to be happy enough with the longer term goals and being up in those dizzy heights when we have our new stadium. He is also the one man who knows Gary Johnson better than anyone on this forum (unless we have any of his family members on here) so is in a far better position to make the decision regarding who is the right man to take this club forward. The football club isn't the only place he appoints managers and those he appoints within his business are dealing with amounts of investors money that would make BCFC's finances seem like a child's pocket money savings account so I think he knows how to pick a good man for the job and also when to release him/her from it when their performance dictates. Which brings me back to those thinking of not renewing their ST. Mr. Lansdown must realise there is the potential for a drop in sales and no one even outside the finance industry wants a lower cash flow but I would say by him supporting the manager he knows something we as fans don't, what that is I don't know.}

_{The pro Johnson supporters do tend to over use the argument of past glories earning him time but to me past glories are what you talk about in the pub before a game and as such don't hold too much relevance to this season. But some of the Anti GJ camp are right in pointing this out but then trawl history to highlight the less successful time. Which way is it? If the past successes count for nothing then it would follow neither do the past failings.}

_{On the surface I can see why support for the manager is being questioned and believe he is not above criticism (though some of the abuse hurled at him at times on here is disgusting and I sincerely hope it's by the younger less experienced element of fans) We are not anything near as dire as we were in the early 80's neither is it good as the blood and guts survival seasons under Terry Cooper (my personal favorite manager of this club)}

_{We all remember the Legend that is Brian Tinnion this is the legend that submitted a transfer request because of the abuse he, his wife and their young children had to endure from certain sections of our "Loyal" group of supporters. Had he have left we would have lost out on a true City legend and that would have been thanks to our wonderful fans who would have been proud of themselves.}

_{To me Gary is a good manager who has tried to mix and match to stop us being the predictable side some of our own supporters accuse us of.}

_{Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on this forum but they also have the right to have that view respected without the fear of personal abuse. This goes for both sides of the divide clappers and moaner, and sum suggestion of you not agreeing with someone else's shouldn't become a question of who is a closet Sag. Many good debatable threads on here get hijacked by those with a hidden agenda. GJ is not the messiah or is he hell bent on running the club into the ground. He must take his share of the responsibility as the boss but so should all those who pull on that red shirt and we shouldn't forget the meaning of the words supporter and fan.}

_{The good ship Bristol City is suffering in the stormy season of this season but we are all hoping for better weather soon. To my mind getting in a new man at this stage of the season would be a disaster and as long as we don't plummet down the table then I would not like to see a change in management. If GJ gets us though the season and keeps in at least the Championship. Come May after the last ball has been kicked in anger then and only then should the chairman question the manager and at this point should G J fail to impress SL the it could be bye bye Gary. In the mean time us fans should rally around the team as a whole and give everyone at AG our full backing and vocal support.}

_{(if this post doesn't make any sense please accept my apologies my meds have kicked in this is the reason I can't get down to the Gate)I hope this comes across as balanced and not bias either way. So come on you City supporters stick together and believe. Worse things happen at (well near) sea just ask any plymuff supporter}

Well written and absolutely fair IMO. You won't get many responses because it's fair, balanced and rational..... means the "happy clappers" and "moaners" camt tear each other to shreds!

We've never been the most tolerant of fan, and rather than trying to support our side we rip each other to pieces.

Tough time of the season this.... and a poor start to the year doesn't help.

But the team's been totally reshaped since our promotion season. We've now got a pretty young side which is being moulded for our new stadium i think. Anyway... that's enough I can't focus on the screen anymoee! ;-)

[Nibor]

Good balanced post in my opinion.

The whole "moaner vs happy clapper" thing is awful on this forum, too many people with either view aren't able/willing to argue posts on their merits and instead resort to just pigeon holing a whole debate. There's also a third (mercifully smaller) group of wind up merchants who just try and fish on here. All of this makes the forum less interesting and useful than it was which is a real pity considering the good that has come of OTIB over the years.

From my point of view I'm not enjoying the football at all at the moment and I want that to change, and I'm frustrated that the obvious problems aren't addressed. My opinion of the manager has gone down a whole lot over 2009 because I've seen poor football with obvious flaws for the whole of the year and that's been compounded by a series of excuses and smoke and mirrors.

It goes without saying (well, it should but some people seem to need reminding) that I still support the team on the pitch 100% at every game as I think does everybody on here. People would do well to remember that the only differences we really have are in how we think the team might be most likely to succeed rather than whether or not we want it to. I get the impression that is forgotten too often.

[StGeorge]

Well said Numbeast, that says exactly what I would say if I were so eloquent and reasoned.

Spot on.

[Will Rollason]

_{Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on this forum but they also have the right to have that view respected without the fear of personal abuse.}

Good post BTW, I have noticed a rise in just plain abuse recently and the mods seem to have backed off ,probably after being accused of being too involved.

No need for it. Its difficult because its an emotive subject but still no need for it. Post not the poster.