RedUn Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 ... the moment Williams took his touch - the one that took it for the goal kick the ref gave a corner for - he knew it was too heavy so he made no attempt to adjust his run with the path of the ball and instead carried on running towards the goal where he was bound to collide with Phillips. Having got the biggest call of the game spot-on Taylor then allowed the doubts to set in and used to the yellow card to placate the home fans. While we're on the subject I felt the first half showed the extent to which Hartlepool had done their homework ... i) on our weakness defending set pieces and ii) Taylor's willingness to give a free kick every time a player goes to ground. I hope Poll is stronger on Wednesday but I won't be holding my breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O_Faz Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Agree with you on the fact that he tapped the ball past Phillips way too hard and that it is unlikely he would have made it, but you have seen them given and was surprised after the replay's that it wasn't awarded. (My initial judgement was that Phillips had sliced/palmed the ball away and behind for a corner, which may explain why no penalty was given) He spent the rest of the game awarding the most innocuous challenges with cards, and as soon as fans so much as complained about certain incidents was he blowing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 RED TINTED GLASSES ME THINKS!!! that was a pen if i ever saw one never mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted May 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 RED TINTED GLASSES ME THINKS!!! I hear what you're saying - on first view I thought it was a pen but the more you look at it putting yourself in the forward's position you can see what he was up to. Having moved the ball right he had time to move himself in that direction too and didn't do so precisely because he knew he'd touched it too far. Good decision Mr Taylor, one of few on the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 I hear what you're saying - on first view I thought it was a pen but the more you look at it putting yourself in the forward's position you can see what he was up to. Having moved the ball right he had time to move himself in that direction too and didn't do so precisely because he knew he'd touched it too far. Good decision Mr Taylor, one of few on the night. Just because he didn't take evasive action, Phillips still clattered him and it was a penalty. I believe it's called 'drawing the challenge' and is part of every good striker's armoury. Probably explains why we haven't had a shout like that this season. I'd have been fuming had it been us and, while I'm glad he didn't give it, there is no denying he should have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted May 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Just because he didn't take evasive action, Phillips still clattered him and it was a penalty. I believe it's called 'drawing the challenge' and is part of every good striker's armoury. Good job you're not a ref if you're that easily conned, Williams hit the ball toward the corner flag and carried on his run towards goal! Probably explains why we haven't had a shout like that this season. Agree ... different question! I'd have been fuming had it been us Of course you would, you're a City fan! and, while I'm glad he didn't give it, there is no denying he should have done. Yes there is, still it's good to see you agreeing with Danny Wilson about something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 It was a pen, but i can see why the Ref didn't give it. Had Williams made any attempt to move towards the ball, i.e play the game he is supposed to be payed for doing, which that certainly was not. had he tired to play football then mabye he would have got the pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man In Black Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 OK, maybe it was the four pints that I had consumed by this point (might explain a few things...) but I thought that he was definitely looking for the penalty. He kicked it past Phillips pretty strongly - and the ball was pratically over the goal line when he went over - and that was an acrobatic dive over Phillips if I ever saw one Still, I admit I would have seen the ref's viewpoint if he had given it - it was a very clever piece of play by the forward. But don't get me started on the reffing in general - normallly I don't like to comment on their performances (sort of unwritten rule amongst refs) but it was crap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest red in the usa Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Just seen it on Sky Sports News (sorry a little slow in the USA) Without doubt a penalty....however, guy made a meal of the contact etc... Whatever,1-1 was okay, disappointing given we were up...just hope our problem with scoring goals doesn't come back to haunt us in second leg. First goal absolutely key on Wednesday ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-0 Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Blatent penalty, thanks ref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingswoodRed Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I'm not sure what Phillips could have actually done. He went down with arms out to make himself as big as he could and went for the ball. He never made any attempt to bring the player down ie. move his arms to the legs of the striker. Too many pens are given when a player leaves his legs in the challenge and drags them so he has to fall. Yes there was contact, but someone please explain to me at what point football became a non contact sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twaters Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I'm sure when a player dives into the challenge he doesnt intend to bring the other player down but they still conceed free kicks. This is what happened. Phillips may have had no intention of bringing down williams, he may have pulled his hands in to avoid contact. The ball may have been going out for a throw in to us, but at the end of the day phillips did miss the ball whilst going in for a challenge, and did touch the guy. Alright he did make a meal of it and if he wanted to probably could have jumped over him but the important factor is phillips went in for a challenge and missed the ball. Thats what deems this a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bristolbred Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Def Pen!! :speechless3: But the whistle happy ref, and inept linesmen were just as happy to give free kicks everytime a poolie fell to the ground!!. :@ I'm suprised, that when one or two of their players fell down with cramp, that he didn't award them a free kick!!. And how about their goalie!!, after a stoppage, he should of booted the ball out of touch, and be clapped for being sporting, BUT instead, he boots it 3/4's of the way up the pitch!!. *******!! . :Rage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 As a former ref, I think the key issue in the decision is did Phillips get a touch on the ball? If Phillips touched the ball before the player fell over him, then it's not a pen. If not, then regardless of the ball's direction or the player's direction, it is a penalty. There is nothing in the Laws that specify where the ball should be or where the player should be. I think the ref made an error of judgment thinking Phillips had got a touch. The TV replays showed he didn't. It was a penalty, no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man In Black Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 As a former ref, I think the key issue in the decision is did Phillips get a touch on the ball? If Phillips touched the ball before the player fell over him, then it's not a pen. If not, then regardless of the ball's direction or the player's direction, it is a penalty. There is nothing in the Laws that specify where the ball should be or where the player should be. I think the ref made an error of judgment thinking Phillips had got a touch. The TV replays showed he didn't. It was a penalty, no question. You've got it spot on. What I was getting at earlier was that the forward was looking for it. Phillips was lucky, but it would have really narked me off if it was giving because of the manner in which it came about I just suppose that from the ref's angle he couldn't tell - and if you have doubt it's probably best not to give it. He then realised about ten seconds later that maybe it was, and then started 30 odd minutes of some of the most inept refereeing and player management that I have ever seen... In referee training we were always shown videos of incidents and had to make a snap judgement on what to give. Other times we watched for how the ref had positioned himself. Maybe they should add a video of his display to show how not to do the job and how you shouldn't give in to the crowd and players. I mean, the Burnell booking - the ref was perfectly placed about three metres away and somehow saw it as Burnell going in recklessly and not 50:50! One thing that I couldn't see why people were moaning about though was the drop balls (both Wilson and the opposition manager were fuming after the two in the game). Well, all I can say is that if you weren't happy with your player not being present at the dropping of the ball, then have a go at your players and not the ref. It's up to you to ensure that a player is present when the ball is dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BournemouthRed Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 A lot of discussion on a simple topic - it was a penalty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harry May Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 It reminded me of the decision that went against us when we played Sunderland a few years back . Kevin Phillips had the ball and Steve Phillips went for the ball as he burst through. The ref gave the penalty and we lost 0-1 . Steve Phillips left the pitch to a standing ovation. I thought last nights decision was a penalty. In a way , I wish he had given it - then perhaps he might not have awarded them 20 odd free kicks and booked our players for nothing challenges. Caldicot Red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I mean, the Burnell booking - the ref was perfectly placed about three metres away and somehow saw it as Burnell going in recklessly and not 50:50! Having seen the replay on tv, I thought Burnell was booked for a two-footed challenge, but then I think the Hartlepool player went in with both feet too, so they should have both been cautioned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham b Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 ... the moment Williams took his touch - the one that took it for the goal kick the ref gave a corner for - he knew it was too heavy so he made no attempt to adjust his run with the path of the ball and instead carried on running towards the goal where he was bound to collide with Phillips. Having got the biggest call of the game spot-on Taylor ....... Too much of the Guinness then Red Un! The reason Taylor did not give a penalty was that he thought Phillips got a touch, hence the corner! He was therefore not 'spot on' but very wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kit Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 No way was it a pen. Even if the ref thought that Phillips got a touch. Phillips has come off his line to narrow the angle, the player has knocked the ball miles wide and left himself nowhere to go. Are you supposed to roll out the red carpet and just let players run through.The player played for a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 When I first saw it my instinctive reaction was 'thats a pen'. When he didn't give it and I had the benefit of seeing the replay I then decided it wasn't, as the player had pushed the ball well away from goal and his onward momentum coincided with that of Steve. Now I'm not so sure. Glad I'm not a ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobby Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 does anyone think we should have had a penalty though? from where i was standing roberts go clattered by there keeper and pulled by there defender in the second half,with the keeper then faking an injury as rougier was in a great crossing/shooting position and he was miles out of his goal. just one of the dirty tricks that plank of a ref fell for. :@ :@ :@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Father Dougal Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I guess there are two issues. 1, whether SP intended to bring the Hartlepool player down or 2, was it an unavoidable collision. But then does an unavoidable collision count for anything in a penalty situation? Mis-timed tackles (for example)in the box are not counted as questions of good or bad intent are they? They're just counted as bad tackles and the referee is at liberty to point to the spot. 'Offending' players protest innocence on the basis that what they did was fair. Referees for the most part apply the laws clinically. They're not supposed to worry about fair. (I may be talking complete rubbish). It seems to me that the ref did play fair with SP, but 9 times out of 10 a penalty would have been given. We were lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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