Uk Troops Beating Iraqi 12 Year Old Children

[Rassy]

Do you still think they are heroes?

[Rassy]

The Muslim extremists are taking note, just biding there time really.

This country is rotten and the fruits we offer to the world are poisonous, I am deeply saddened by this new revelation, Britain has no business to be there anyway.

Beating kids up, doesnt get much lower than that really. Very sad indeed.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Not good, not good at all. There were also allegations of abuse last year.

The worst aspect aside from the action itself, is that it tarnishes the good name of the majority of UK troops in Iraq, and could put them in danger through association.

[Barrs Court Red]

This is years old and has been dealt with. Why bring it up as something revelant to today?

[Flaxbourton Red]

at least they weren't beheaded or ripped apart by a suicide bomb

also why did the australian-american murdoch's news of the world add that strange voiceover?

[Mr Mosquito]

Do you still think they are heroes?

They're battle hardened soldiers, throw bricks at soldiers of any nationality and you'd get more-or-less the same response. Throw bricks at Israeli soldiers - for instance - and you'd be shot. Perhaps Tony Blair, Jack Straw and their fellow Labour party war mongerers should be men enough to get over there to face the kids throwing bricks as it was they who sent our soldiers there to start with.

[bucksred]

Do you still think they are heroes?

As an ex serviceman, who still has many friends in the forces, I can tell you most of that story is bullshit. No one is perfect, but a lot of that that is shite. If you go lobbing stones at people, and go round informing the bad guys what the troops are doing leading to ambushes etc, you aint any too innocent.

Also ask yourself, what kind of sick **** "leaders" send kids to do their dirty work. make mentally deficient kids take suicide belts and detonate them among coalition troops

I agree with you we shouldnt have been there, but we did a damn fine job, considering the constraints and provocation our guys were under.

and yes they are still heroes. one of my mates was killed in Iraq. A young father.

[Mr Mosquito]

and yes they are still heroes. one of my mates was killed in Iraq. A young father.

People should also remember the fact that servicemen have no choice in where they are sent to fight - they have to do what they are told or else face prosecution and prison. OK, Iraq and Afghanistan are controversial military campaigns but remember that the lads out there fighting face death daily and are serving our country as demanded by our Government. If people have a problem with perceived ill behaviour then the people to complain to are our elected political representatives that endorsed these wars to start with.

[Eddie Hitler]

Rassy on his usual wind-up session.

[Nibor]

They looked like they needed the discipline to me.

[Mr Mosquito]

They looked like they needed the discipline to me.

Indeed, had those troops beaten up Alistair Darling and his fellow Labour Party muppets for putting 10% extra tax on zider then they'd be in line for top battle honours.

[Economou]

As an ex serviceman, who still has many friends in the forces, I can tell you most of that story is bullshit. No one is perfect, but a lot of that that is shite. If you go lobbing stones at people, and go round informing the bad guys what the troops are doing leading to ambushes etc, you aint any too innocent.

Also ask yourself, what kind of sick **** "leaders" send kids to do their dirty work. make mentally deficient kids take suicide belts and detonate them among coalition troops

I agree with you we shouldnt have been there, but we did a damn fine job, considering the constraints and provocation our guys were under.

and yes they are still heroes. one of my mates was killed in Iraq. A young father.

A conundrum for me is Help for Heroes where soldiers appear at football matches, eg. Reading. I don't want them in Iraq/Afghanistan and feel unsure about joining in the applause for these guys. I must admit I didn't join in the applause at Reading but felt guilty after, I mean these guys are giving their lives away and getting terrible injuries. On the other hand I don't think they're helping improve the UK image in that part of the world.

[Nibor]

A conundrum for me is Help for Heroes where soldiers appear at football matches, eg. Reading. I don't want them in Iraq/Afghanistan and feel unsure about joining in the applause for these guys. I must admit I didn't join in the applause at Reading but felt guilty after, I mean these guys are giving their lives away and getting terrible injuries. On the other hand I don't think they're helping improve the UK image in that part of the world.

The troops don't choose where they get sent, that's the politicians. I think you can support the troops on the ground without advocating the decision to send them there.

[Mr Popodopolous]

A conundrum for me is Help for Heroes where soldiers appear at football matches, eg. Reading. I don't want them in Iraq/Afghanistan and feel unsure about joining in the applause for these guys. I must admit I didn't join in the applause at Reading but felt guilty after, I mean these guys are giving their lives away and getting terrible injuries. On the other hand I don't think they're helping improve the UK image in that part of the world.

Agree with this- and support for troops in general. I don't support the war, as you say it is not exactly helping our reputation in that neck of the woods, but then they are running the risk of the ultimate sacrifice- a tough one really. I just don't feel that doing one without the other i.e. supporting troops but not a war- is that easy morally really.

[CiderHider]

Hero's in my eyes.

[Rassy]

Hero's in my eyes.

Please forgive my ignorance (I don't own a TV).....

Why are they heroes?

They must have done something prety amazing to be labelled 'heroes'. What exactly?

[bucksred]

Please forgive my ignorance (I don't own a TV).....

Why are they heroes?

They must have done something prety amazing to be labelled 'heroes'. What exactly?

how about defusing 70 bombs, before being killed defusing th 71st?, bringing out wounded comrades under heavy sustained fire, how about throwing yourself onto a bomb to save your comrades lives, tying another comrades shattered limbs off, despite the same injury to your self, how about landing helicopters under fire to casevac very seriously wounded soldiers? How about life saving operations on the casevac choppers under fire?

everyday somebody on ops in Afghan does something like the above. Course people like you wouldnt understand comradeship, and looking after your buddies now.

All our servicemen and women do a f ****** fantastic job, under trying conditions despite the best efforts of their political "masters" to screw them over at any and all times since 2003.

[Rassy]

how about defusing 70 bombs, before being killed defusing th 71st?, bringing out wounded comrades under heavy sustained fire, how about throwing yourself onto a bomb to save your comrades lives, tying another comrades shattered limbs off, despite the same injury to your self, how about landing helicopters under fire to casevac very seriously wounded soldiers? How about life saving operations on the casevac choppers under fire?

everyday somebody on ops in Afghan does something like the above. Course people like you wouldnt understand comradeship, and looking after your buddies now.

All our servicemen and women do a f ****** fantastic job, under trying conditions despite the best efforts of their political "masters" to screw them over at any and all times since 2003.

Wow! I didn't realise that before. That does sound prety heroic! I have a new respect for service men/women.

The reason i'm so pissed off is the fact that iraq/afghanistan were illegal wars, and all those innocent civilians were murdered (about 2 million including 500,000 children). 'Make Wars History' are trying to get Tony B-LIAR and his government arrested and tried for war crimes, in accordance with international law which states 'a country can only declare war if aggrest against first'.

I'm so mad, i'm thinking of withholding all tax like Billy Bragg, or becoming a 'Freeman On the Land', where you withdraw your sovereignty from the Queen and become your own sovereign.

I guess people like me should learn the difference between those traitors and murderers in government (and their bankster puppet masters), and the soldiers who are just doing a job and are the real victims in all this.

Truly sorry if I caused any offense.

LEGALLY STOP PAYING TAXES AND YOU CAN STOP THE GENOCIDE NOW!:

[Mr Mosquito]

The reason i'm so pissed off is the fact that iraq/afghanistan were illegal wars, and all those innocent civilians were murdered (about 2 million including 500,000 children). 'Make Wars History' are trying to get Tony B-LIAR and his government arrested and tried for war crimes, in accordance with international law which states 'a country can only declare war if aggrest against first'.

I'm so mad, i'm thinking of withholding all tax like Billy Bragg, or becoming a 'Freeman On the Land', where you withdraw your sovereignty from the Queen and become your own sovereign.

I guess people like me should learn the difference between those traitors and murderers in government (and their bankster puppet masters), and the soldiers who are just doing a job and are the real victims in all this.

With regard to the war in Afghanistan, there have already been 3 Anglo-Afghan wars starting from the mid nineteenth century. On each occasion they've fought Britain to a standstill and at great cost in British money and lives. In the 1980's the Afghans all but defeated the Soviet Union's forces in Afghanistan and bankrupted the USSR's economy as well. Tony Blair and his fellow Labour Party war mongerers would have been told this before they committed British troops to Afghanistan. Lo and behold our economy and that of the USA is collapsing before our very eyes with the sheer cost of this conflict.

[bucksred]

Wow! I didn't realise that before. That does sound prety heroic! I have a new respect for service men/women.

The reason i'm so pissed off is the fact that iraq/afghanistan were illegal wars, and all those innocent civilians were murdered (about 2 million including 500,000 children). 'Make Wars History' are trying to get Tony B-LIAR and his government arrested and tried for war crimes, in accordance with international law which states 'a country can only declare war if aggrest against first'.

I'm so mad, i'm thinking of withholding all tax like Billy Bragg, or becoming a 'Freeman On the Land', where you withdraw your sovereignty from the Queen and become your own sovereign.

I guess people like me should learn the difference between those traitors and murderers in government (and their bankster puppet masters), and the soldiers who are just doing a job and are the real victims in all this.

Truly sorry if I caused any offense.

LEGALLY STOP PAYING TAXES AND YOU CAN STOP THE GENOCIDE NOW!:

Dont suppose you would care to comment on all the anti British forces stuff from back in theose "Halcyon" days of punk? Bragg, the Clash, etc etc another serving mate, a Celtic fan got stabbed in the arm by a Celtic shirt wearing thug, who was also lobbing petrol bombs prior to it, in the wonderful city of Belfast..

You dont pay taxes you dont get any services, not that much goes on defence with the Labour Party ******* anyways...No taxes, you shouldnt get any services, the way it should be.

[Rassy]

Dont suppose you would care to comment on all the anti British forces stuff from back in theose "Halcyon" days of punk? Bragg, the Clash, etc etc another serving mate, a Celtic fan got stabbed in the arm by a Celtic shirt wearing thug, who was also lobbing petrol bombs prior to it, in the wonderful city of Belfast..

You dont pay taxes you dont get any services, not that much goes on defence with the Labour Party ******* anyways...No taxes, you shouldnt get any services, the way it should be.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend getting stabbed. As for the punk movement, i was born in 88 so I don't know much about it. I know the clash sold out when they signed with CBS, and isn't Billy Bragg an ex-serviceman?

As for not paying tax....In the Magna Carta 1215 (which is part of the British Constitution) section 61 is titled 'Lawful Rebellion'. Section 61 states that if any subject has good reason to believe the reigning monarch or parliament has commited an act of treason, they have the unalienable right to lawfully withhold tax.

In fact, it says we have a lawful obligation to withhold our tax, otherwise we are complicite in the destruction of Great Britain. If you disagree that HM the Queen and various Parliatarians have commited treason, please see my post 'List of traitors of the United Kingdom' in the general section.

[Nibor]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend getting stabbed. As for the punk movement, i was born in 88 so I don't know much about it. I know the clash sold out when they signed with CBS, and isn't Billy Bragg an ex-serviceman?

As for not paying tax....In the Magna Carta 1215 (which is part of the British Constitution) section 61 is titled 'Lawful Rebellion'. Section 61 states that if any subject has good reason to believe the reigning monarch or parliament has commited an act of treason, they have the unalienable right to lawfully withhold tax.

In fact, it says we have a lawful obligation to withhold our tax, otherwise we are complicite in the destruction of Great Britain. If you disagree that HM the Queen and various Parliatarians have commited treason, please see my post 'List of traitors of the United Kingdom' in the general section.

Clause 61 did not say that and is not in force today anyway. Read Jennings and Dickinson if you have any real interest in it.

There's also no such thing as an illegal war. There is no legal framework for the waging of war, calling a war illegal is meaningless.

I'd suggest you should do more of your own research because at the moment you're just repeating other people's propaganda.

[Mr Mosquito]

Clause 61 did not say that and is not in force today anyway. Read Jennings and Dickinson if you have any real interest in it.

There's also no such thing as an illegal war. There is no legal framework for the waging of war, calling a war illegal is meaningless.

I'd suggest you should do more of your own research because at the moment you're just repeating other people's propaganda.

Careful, don't forget the Nuremberg Trials. A series of military tribunals, held by the main victorious forces of World War 2, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of the defeated National Socialist Germany. Many Germans were found guilty and hung for the following indictments:

1. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace.
   
2. Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace.
3. War Crimes.
   
4. Crimes against humanity.
   

[Nibor]

Careful, don't forget the Nuremberg Trials.

Goblin that's a see through attempt to cloud the issue.

The Nuremberg "trials" were military tribunals run in a legal framework agreed by the victors under the jurisdiction of Germany's surrender.

They have no bearing on whether or not a war is legal, in that respect victor's justice would be the only precedent.

[Mr Mosquito]

Goblin that's a see through attempt to cloud the issue.

The Nuremberg "trials" were military tribunals run in a legal framework agreed by the victors under the jurisdiction of Germany's surrender.

They have no bearing on whether or not a war is legal, in that respect victor's justice would be the only precedent.

True, but open to interpretation. Law works on precedent and I believe that some Serbians were recently - or are - on trial for war crimes in the former Yugoslavia and that's nothing to do with 'victor's justice'. Thus, Tony Blair and Co could still - at some future date - face international criminal charges.

[bucksred]

Careful, don't forget the Nuremberg Trials. A series of military tribunals, held by the main victorious forces of World War 2, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of the defeated National Socialist Germany. Many Germans were found guilty and hung for the following indictments:

1. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace.
   
2. Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace.
3. War Crimes.
   
4. Crimes against humanity.
   

Thats bollocks Goblin, specially as some of those who raised the indictments of the Nazis were themselves guilty of mass murders between September 15 1939 and May 9th 1945. I refer of course to the NKVD, who's list of war crimes quite match the Nazis,The Red Army, NKVD, GRU and Cheka leaders would all meet the same fate as the top Nazis under a genuine interpretion of the rules you quote:

1: Invasion of Finland, Poland, Latija, Lithuania, Estonia, Ruthenia,Bessarbia & Bukovina, between september 1939 and the end of 1940

2: see the above, and additionally aiding and abetting the German war effort until june 22 1941.

3: Katyn, the mass murder of 22,000 Polish officers between September 1939 and April 1941 (BEFORE the *unacceptable word* invasion which was on 22/06/41, and the area, in which they were murdered didnt fall into German hands until September 1941. The illegal detention of Polish military personnel after the agreement to release them

4. Where do you start? the cleansing in all the areas above of dissidents, and anti Russians, the mass murders of Poles and Balts. the deportation of the Kalmucks, Cossacks and Volga Germans, before any sign of being pro German appeared (In fact all three ethnic groupings were not pro German until Stalins mistreatment)

The numerous gulags for enemies of the state The deliberate starving of the Ukraine in the 20's because the opposed Stalins collective farms policy. The deliberate sacrifice of Red Army troops, and the subsequent execution of commanders for "cowardice", through no surrender orders, at Bryansk, Smolensk (100,000 POWs each battle),Kiev (This battle cost the Red Army 750,000 PRISONERS OF WAR alone), Uman, Vyasma, Rshev (about 300,000 POWS each battle), & Sebastapol (a large garrison wiped out). I think the Kiev Kessel is still to this day the largest number of prisoners taken in a single battle until 1991 in Iraq.

Indeed some liberals today, would even include WW2 allied bomber crews, like your granddad, in the last of your categories.

Personally I wouldn't. Sow the wind, and by Christ you'll reap the whirlwind. They got what they deserved.