Catatonia -the Wonder Of Wilson.

[edson]

Edson would you have taken a draw before the game on Saturday ? Before seeing the team sheet ???

No (in a word!).

I was happy with the result and not that bothered about what Hartlepool had to offer as an attacking force. I really beleive we will beat them on Wednesday.

I wasn't happy with the result or the performance. One attempt on target all game (though, thankfully, it went in) and our keeper forced into a string of fine saves, plus a definite penalty turned down, tells its own story.

Just interested as to what you thought would have been a realistic scoreline before the game ?

I don't think it is unrealistic to expect to beat Hartlepool. We could be playing Leeds, Wolves, Leicester etc next season. What do you think would be realistic scorelines when we travel to their grounds?

Having said all that. Like you, I believe we will beat them on Wednesday. However, we were very lucky to get a draw on Saturday, but (to use the cliché) it is only halftime.

I just hope we make the necessary substitutions for the second half.

[Beezey]

No (in a word!).

I wasn't happy with the result or the performance. One attempt on target all game (though, thankfully, it went in) and our keeper forced into a string of fine saves, plus a definite penalty turned down, tells its own story.

I don't think it is unrealistic to expect to beat Hartlepool. We could be playing Leeds, Wolves, Leicester etc next season. What do you think would be realistic scorelines when we travel to their grounds?

Having said all that. Like you, I believe we will beat them on Wednesday. However, we were very lucky to get a draw on Saturday, but (to use the cliché) it is only halftime.

I just hope we make the necessary substitutions for the second half.

But are you judging Hartlepool on there performances this season or say over the last ten years ? I ask this because you say we should realisticly expect to beat Hartlepool who to be fair have been a difficult side to beat at home this season and finished sixth.

Lets not forget that our away form has been erratic at best towards the end of the season so I was more than happy to take a one all up there and get them back to ours.

I wonder if perhaps we are more dissapointed because its Hartlepool, We viewed a one all draw at Loftus road as a good result. Yet away to Hartlepool we were dissapointed. Do we view them as a smaller club and as such expect to beat them as a result??

Not knocking you for it, just working on a theroy here

[edson]

But are you judging Hartlepool on there performances this season or say over the last ten years ? I ask this because you say we should realisticly expect to beat Hartlepool who to be fair have been a difficult side to beat at home this season and finished sixth.

Lets not forget that our away form has been erratic at best towards the end of the season so I was more than happy to take a one all up there and get them back to ours.

I wonder if perhaps we are more dissapointed because its Hartlepool, We viewed a one all draw at Loftus road as a good result. Yet away to Hartlepool we were dissapointed. Do we view them as a smaller club and as such expect to beat them as a result??

Not knocking you for it, just working on a theroy here

I don't think we need to look back 10 years, to be disappointed. Only last year they were in Division Three. Would we have been happy to sit back and draw with them just twelve months ago? I wouldn't, and I suspect many others wouldn't too.

They scraped sixth place, after playing out a mutually beneificial draw with Swindon on the last day of the season and finished fully 9 points behind us (the biggest gap between 3rd and 6th in the three divisions), so I don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility for us to beat them.

I take your point though, there is a feeling that it is 'only Hartlepool' but, then again, it is only Hartlepool and if we struggle there, I am fearful of how we will fare at Elland Road, Molineux, Upton Park (possibly) etc., etc..

QPR have good players, good support and showed themselves to be better than us over the course of the season. Hartlepool have journeymen players, poor support and were worse than us by a distance over the course of a season.

I know it is possible to argue that Hereford lost to Aldershot, so you can take nothing for granted. But I doubt that their fans are exactly impressed, that their team failed to put away a team who they were clearly better than by a country mile.

I would not take a draw against any team in this division, as we are more than capable of beating all of them. The fact our manager put out a team that played for a draw is symptomatic of his negativity and fear of losing, in my opinion. After all, he said this season, after drawing away from home, that he was "more than happy with a point". Go into competition with that attitude, and that is, more than likely, exactly what you'll end up with.

I believe Willi Railo (well known sports psychologist) said "Dare to lose to win" is the attitude he instills in the players he works with. "Settle for a draw" most certainly is not something he would say or encourage.

My opinion, in a nutshell, is, Wilson is so fearful of failure, that it stifles our chances of victory.

No knock taken. Cheers.

[richieb]

My opinion, in a nutshell, is, Wilson is so fearful of failure, that it stifles our chances of victory.

Yes, I think this sums it up nicely.

We have set our stall out defensively all season,and instaed of the risky game of scoring more than your opponants, DW has made it a priority not to conceed.

Trouble is we have struggled to hurt teams at the other end.

Oh and we have had an enourmous ammount of lady luck.

Lets hope it lasts for two more games.

[RedUn]

one small point, joe deserved the yellow card, it was a two footed lunge, it was fortutante that the Harlteppol player was not neared the ball otherwise it could have been red.

Is that the Hartlepool player who's two-footed lunge arrived after Joe had won the ball?

[RedUn]

Its nothing new that City (Peacock) have been giving away free-kicks in the final third.Its been happening all season.Peacock leads the "most fouls committed" stats for this division and is the main culprit by far.

Actually, Paul Furlong overtook him on the last day of the season!

You're right though, if Leapy had made more effort to get away from defenders instead of grabbing their shirt at every challenge we'd quite likely be home and hosed by now ... give me Cerys Matthews any day!

[RedUn]

I wasn't happy with the result or the performance. One attempt on target all game (though, thankfully, it went in)

... three (Butler and Coles had shots blocked)

Peacock and Roberts also had great chances to hit the target and thereby give themselves a chance of putting us two up before they scored. But they didn't. Story of this (uncompleted) season.

[Guest Harry May]

With regards to the Hereford / Aldershot game - yes , Hereford did expect to beat Aldershot in the home leg . But the ref made a pigs ear of a decision and sent off a Hereford player early in the game. I think that had some bearing on the result.

Caldicot Red.

[The Humble Realist]

To a certain extent the article is true in the fact that we did go ultra defensive and i think we got what we deserved in Hartlepool scoring a well deserved goal.

Stowell SHOULD have been on the bench its too risky not to have him.

Overall i was pleased with a draw

[arpaul]

:@

Following Tony Rougier's excellent 5th minute opener, Roberts' miss when clean through and the unfortunate concussion for Doherty, Danny Wilson unleashed catatonia. This was a ruthless ploy, designed to lull Hartlepool into a true sense of security and bore the rest of us tuning in on television into a stupor.

Still, it's been the epitome of a season that promised promotion and delivered us to forage amongst the scraps of the play-offs against far hungrier adversaries.

The question is, will City WANT IT ENOUGH?

Who is Mark Tovey.....More importantly why should he be given the opportunity of giving his views in the Evening Post. :@

How easy it must be to criticise others from the comfort of an armchair, or the local Bar. What a shame it wasn't good viewing for this truely loyal supporter. It is also a great shame that the efforts of all players and staff involved weren't matched by Mark Tovey and our 'loyal' wannabees.

Kevin Brakes comments on the other hand carry some weight- at least he was there- even if we don't necessarily agree.

To an outsider, City will never be a big club especially when they see empty seats in the 'away section'.

Still no doubt Mark and the other pub revellers will have their tickets for Wednesday.

Mark if you are reading this I simply say: Your comments are treated with contempt. I, along with 800-900 others made the effort to get there on Saturday.... because City are MY team.

One final question-Do you want it enough ? obviously not

[Guest GreenSoldier]

Good band though...Mulder and Scully is a classic

[greenun]

Who is Mark Tovey.....More importantly why should he be given the opportunity of giving his views in the Evening Post. :@

How easy it must be to criticise others from the comfort of an armchair, or the local Bar. What a shame it wasn't good viewing for this truely loyal supporter. It is also a great shame that the efforts of all players and staff involved weren't matched by Mark Tovey and our 'loyal' wannabees.

Kevin Brakes comments on the other hand carry some weight- at least he was there- even if we don't necessarily agree.

To an outsider, City will never be a big club especially when they see empty seats in the 'away section'.

Still no doubt Mark and the other pub revellers will have their tickets for Wednesday.

Mark if you are reading this I simply say: Your comments are treated with contempt. I, along with 800-900 others made the effort to get there on Saturday.... because City are MY team.

One final question-Do you want it enough ? obviously not

For Arpaul's benefit and anybody else remotely interested, here goes...

I'm 36 years-old and a Bristol City supporter of 29 years. My first match was at Ashton Gate in April 1975 against Sheffield Wednesday, which City won 1-0.

The following campaign was my first as a season ticket holder and City won promotion to the old First Divison. At that time a seven year old boy thought that City were unbeatable. If I only knew then what was going to happen in the following 3 decades, I may have chosen a safer team to support like Liverpool or Manchester United, like the majority of my schoolfriends.

Well, I'm a firm believer that you should always follow your hometown team regardless of critiscm, success, failure, fire, flood, plague or pestulence, because I LOVE Bristol City. And it also helped that although I lived on the "wrong side of the tracks," in Little Stoke, my next door neighbour was originally from Stockwood.

Anyway, returning to our main feature presentation. I was ASKED to write the Fanz View article, from a television viewer's perspective, which I gratefully accepted.

For the past 3 seasons, I've written City Fanz View in the Green 'Un and thoroughly enjoyed it. My columns never follow a formula, because you only get 500 words to express a variety of subjects. It's a blank canvass and I ALWAYS like to make the column as colourful as possible!

Far from being a pub reveller, I watched the match at home with family and friends. As a married father of one, I can't get to many away games during the season, due to financial constraints and family commitments.

As Saturday's match was broadcast live on Sky, at 6.05pm, at a venue 300 miles away, perhaps THAT was the reason why there were 200 empty seats in the away end at Victoria Park.

If you want to treat my comments with "contempt," fair enough, I won't be losing any sleep over it. (Hang on though, don't I currently suffer from insomnia?)

At the end of the day, football is all about opinions and my article stated exactly how I felt about the match. Noone else, just me.

On Wednesday night, as usual I'll be screaming myself hoarse from the Atyeo Stand, willing the lads on to Cardiff and promotion. Regardless of the result, I'll be back there in August, as Mrs T has already renewed my season ticket.

So that's my credentials. If you want to reveal YOUR real identity and qualifications to the forum, go ahead, the world's your oyster.

Anyway, I'm back off to bed. Broken sleep, it's a real pain in the a**se, don't you think?

[Milo]

I read your article in the EP before I read it here and was captivated by it. I'd got back from work, sat in my chair, and was immediately intrigued by your opening gambit. I ignored my wife as she put a piece of post in my hand and continued reading. It was well written.

Having said that, part of the reason I was gripped was that I was shocked and angry that you had considered it a good idea to put in print two days before a play off second leg that the team have a "stereotypical defence, an ineffective midfield and an attack so weak that they couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag". Your description here is not of a poor one-off display but an assessment of the team's season ("it's been the epitome of a season").If you were a player reading this (and surely most of them will) how motivated would it make you feel?

I suspect from your last comment that you intended it to be a rallying cry. In which case your intentions are well meaning but your manner of delivery was counter productive.

[Port Said Red]

Its nothing new that City (Peacock) have been giving away free-kicks in the final third.Its been happening all season.Peacock leads the "most fouls committed" stats for this division and is the main culprit by far.

I know this is slightly off the subject (but you raised it). This is a statistic that I have seen raised on here a few time's and while I admit that it is intensely annoying when a good move is ruined by these persistent free kicks, I feel there are a couple of points that need to be made.

The free kick count against Peacock is high, but these decisions are given by the same referees that have refused to give us a penalty all season. I for one have lost a lot of faith in the ability of the officials at this level.

I also can't help feeling that if the count was much lower, the complaint would be that leapy doesn't get stuck in enough. It is the case that he can do on right with a certain faction.

I don't have a "leapy" axe to grind, I find him annoying a lot of the time but still have to admire the work he does and the way he created the goal on Saturday for example.

[edson]

The free kick count against Peacock is high, but these decisions are given by the same referees that have refused to give us a penalty all season. I for one have lost a lot of faith in the ability of the officials at this level.

Over the course of a season, all the refs cannot possibly be picking on Peacock (his profile isn't high enough for referees to consider him to have a reputation and therefore single him out) or deliberately not giving us penalties. I haven't been to every game, but I cannot think of a single stonewall penalty decision that we haven't been given (I'm sure I'd have read about it on here, if there had been such an incident). I don't meant to be antagonistic here, but is there a single occasion where we can say we had a clearcut penalty appeal turned away?

I also can't help feeling that if the count was much lower, the complaint would be that leapy doesn't get stuck in enough.   It is the case that he can do on right with a certain faction.

Possibly. However, I would find it a more palatable statistic if LP had won as many freekicks as he'd lost (for example, Lee Miller has won far more than he's lost), as this would suggest that, not only was he getting stuck in, but that he was using a bit of savvy too.

I don't have a "leapy" axe to grind, I find him annoying a lot of the time but still have to admire the work he does and the way he created the goal on Saturday for example.

Agreed. He does do a lot of good work around the box, but I just don't think he's a striker, in the true sense of the word. He is a good footballer, no doubt about that, but he is being asked to lead the line and it isn't something he seems capable of doing.

I don't have a clue about the freekick breakdown, but I would imagine the vast majority are for backing in, pulling the defender's shirt rather than jumping and jogging back from an offside position rather than sprinting. I'm willing to be proved wrong on that by someone with more details.

[reddoc]

Mr Tovey , I assume that the intent behind your column in the Evening post is to allow you to act as the representative voice of the committed City fan and from the diversity of opinion seen in this thread , that you patently failed to do. Certainly I personally viewed the game and the tactics displayed very differently to yourself, but of course I had to endure a 3 dimensional view of events and wasn't privy to the 2 dimensional widescreen view which you clearly benefited from. To be honest your views disinterest me and you are of course very welcome to express them , so long as it is made clear that this is an individual view and by no means representative of the majority of City fans.

[greenun]

Mr Tovey , I assume that the intent behind your column in the Evening post is to allow you to act as the representative voice of the committed City fan and from the diversity of opinion seen in this thread , that you patently failed to do. Certainly I personally viewed the game and the tactics displayed very differently to yourself, but of course I had to endure a 3 dimensional view of events and wasn't privy to the 2 dimensional widescreen view which you clearly benefited from. To be honest your views disinterest me and you are of course very welcome to express them , so long as it is made clear that this is an individual view and by no means representative of the majority of City fans.

Yes, It's my view, as I explained in response to Arpaul. (see below)

Who is Mark Tovey.....More importantly why should he be given the opportunity of giving his views in the Evening Post.

How easy it must be to criticise others from the comfort of an armchair, or the local Bar. What a shame it wasn't good viewing for this truely loyal supporter. It is also a great shame that the efforts of all players and staff involved weren't matched by Mark Tovey and our 'loyal' wannabees.

Kevin Brakes comments on the other hand carry some weight- at least he was there- even if we don't necessarily agree.

To an outsider, City will never be a big club especially when they see empty seats in the 'away section'.

Still no doubt Mark and the other pub revellers will have their tickets for Wednesday.

Mark if you are reading this I simply say: Your comments are treated with contempt. I, along with 800-900 others made the effort to get there on Saturday.... because City are MY team.

One final question-Do you want it enough ? obviously not

For Arpaul's benefit and anybody else remotely interested, here goes...

I'm 36 years-old and a Bristol City supporter of 29 years. My first match was at Ashton Gate in April 1975 against Sheffield Wednesday, which City won 1-0.

The following campaign was my first as a season ticket holder and City won promotion to the old First Divison. At that time a seven year old boy thought that City were unbeatable. If I only knew then what was going to happen in the following 3 decades, I may have chosen a safer team to support like Liverpool or Manchester United, like the majority of my schoolfriends.

Well, I'm a firm believer that you should always follow your hometown team regardless of critiscm, success, failure, fire, flood, plague or pestulence, because I LOVE Bristol City. And it also helped that although I lived on the "wrong side of the tracks," in Little Stoke, my next door neighbour was originally from Stockwood.

Anyway, returning to our main feature presentation. I was ASKED to write the Fanz View article, from a television viewer's perspective, which I gratefully accepted.

For the past 3 seasons, I've written City Fanz View in the Green 'Un and thoroughly enjoyed it. My columns never follow a formula, because you only get 500 words to express a variety of subjects. It's a blank canvass and I ALWAYS like to make the column as colourful as possible!

Far from being a pub reveller, I watched the match at home with family and friends. As a married father of one, I can't get to many away games during the season, due to financial constraints and family commitments.

As Saturday's match was broadcast live on Sky, at 6.05pm, at a venue 300 miles away, perhaps THAT was the reason why there were 200 empty seats in the away end at Victoria Park.

If you want to treat my comments with "contempt," fair enough, I won't be losing any sleep over it. (Hang on though, don't I currently suffer from insomnia?)

At the end of the day, football is all about opinions and my article stated exactly how I felt about the match. Noone else, just me.

On Wednesday night, as usual I'll be screaming myself hoarse from the Atyeo Stand, willing the lads on to Cardiff and promotion. Regardless of the result, I'll be back there in August, as Mrs T has already renewed my season ticket.

So that's my credentials. If you want to reveal YOUR real identity and qualifications to the forum, go ahead, the world's your oyster.

Anyway, I'm back off to bed. Broken sleep, it's a real pain in the a**se, don't you think?

[Port Said Red]

Over the course of a season, all the refs cannot possibly be picking on Peacock (his profile isn't high enough for referees to consider him to have a reputation and therefore single him out) or deliberately not giving us penalties. I haven't been to every game, but I cannot think of a single stonewall penalty decision that we haven't been given (I'm sure I'd have read about it on here, if there had been such an incident). I don't meant to be antagonistic here, but is there a single occasion where we can say we had a clearcut penalty appeal turned away?

I don't think I was suggesting that there was any biase involved, just that the referees at this level seem to be easily fooled by certain defenders and lack the bottle to make a vital decision. It worked for us on Saturday but has worked against us on occasions this season.

With Peacock the annoying fouls are the one's where the defender make's little or no effort to go for the ball, then gets the decision because Peacock appears to be "climbing"

With the penalties, I get frustrated when a decision is given for very similar incidents in less important areas of the field usually (it seems) straight after a pen has been turned down.

I realise these points are subjective, like you I think it probably needs to be analyzed by someone with a larger anorak than either of ours.