Parachute Payments

[the frampton balti]

Just read the article in four four two re the restructuring of parachute payments such that relegated teams receive 40 million over four years. Now i'm sure this has been discussed before , but why are the football league agreeing to this? In fact why were parachute payments agreed in the first place? Surely it is each clubs individual responsibility to ensure that wage structures allow for relegation and if the premier league has a financial obligation to the football league (the lifeblood of the sport in this country),then it surely has an obligation to the whole league i.e this money ' and some' should be shared between the divisions.

As it happens i dont think we will suffer as much as many in this league simply because we have a sound financial structure already in place. The slopes and potholes on this playing field however should not be ignored and the football league simply cow towing to the premier league is not acceptable .

[BCFC_Dan]

It's a tricky one. Of course you are right, but how should a club like City vote on an issue like this?

Parachute payments are ultimately going to make it harder for clubs that have never been in the Premier League to get there, so on the face of it that's bad for City. However, they do have a realistic chance of making it in the next couple of years and if they did then the parachute payments would make it far more likely that they'd join the group of clubs that has a realistic chance of participating in the top league for some time to come. Therefore it's arguably better for City's future to vote in favour.

There are plenty of other clubs in City's position, too. Probably most of the Championship will feel they have a realistic chance of making it up at some point and the payments will keep them there. The likes of Palace, Watford, QPR, Coventry etc. will see the payments as a way of ensuring that they never drop any lower than the Championship.

Further down the likes of Leeds Utd must believe that their place is in the Premier League and that they will get there sooner or later. Once they do they will expect to remain there.

In short there are a lot of clubs that could benefit from the Premier League becoming a closed shop and they all believe they could get there. They won't, of course, but it's their aim and club delegates have to do what's right for them.

[CotswoldRed]

The argument is that parachute payments will make the Prem more competitive.

It was supposed to remove a little of the risk associated with 'gambling' with budgets if you got promoted. It was introduced to give promoted clubs a better chance of staying up and enabling them to cope if things don't go well.

In itself I don't think it contributes to bad management per se, but it does nothing for those clubs who ultimately never get to the Prem.

Its a bad thing for the league in general IMO.

[Pezo]

Just read the article in four four two re the restructuring of parachute payments such that relegated teams receive 40 million over four years. Now i'm sure this has been discussed before , but why are the football league agreeing to this? In fact why were parachute payments agreed in the first place? Surely it is each clubs individual responsibility to ensure that wage structures allow for relegation and if the premier league has a financial obligation to the football league (the lifeblood of the sport in this country),then it surely has an obligation to the whole league i.e this money ' and some' should be shared between the divisions.

As it happens i dont think we will suffer as much as many in this league simply because we have a sound financial structure already in place. The slopes and potholes on this playing field however should not be ignored and the football league simply cow towing to the premier league is not acceptable .

I can see what the Prem want to do - they want every club to spend money like it doesn't matter, clubs that were going up were being cagey not spending there money and it was usually the 3 that went up from our league that usually came down, with the odd exception. Now with parachute payments clubs can spend there prem money knowing it doesn't matter if they get relegated because they can survive so what happens now is they overspend spend the money the first year realize they need to spend less and get relegated the year after with massive debts.

For us it makes it a massively unfair system so I think if the Prem are going to start paying out 120mil then that needs to be spread over the 3 pro lower tiers in %. So 60% for tier 2 30% for tier 3 and 10% for tier 4.

Reward should be for winners not for losers everything else should be kept on a level playing field.

[the frampton balti]

The argument is that parachute payments will make the Prem more competitive.

It was supposed to remove a little of the risk associated with 'gambling' with budgets if you got promoted. It was introduced to give promoted clubs a better chance of staying up and enabling them to cope if things don't go well.

In itself I don't think it contributes to bad management per se, but it does nothing for those clubs who ultimately never get to the Prem.

Its a bad thing for the league in general IMO.

Its not worked making the premier league more competitive, and its given promoted teams more money to gamble which in turn puts up the price of everything in the premier league. Its also made it much less likely that the players of a promoted team actually get the chance to ply their trade in the top league.

[the frampton balti]

I can see what the Prem want to do - they want every club to spend money like it doesn't matter, clubs that were going up were being cagey not spending there money and it was usually the 3 that went up from our league that usually came down, with the odd exception. Now with parachute payments clubs can spend there prem money knowing it doesn't matter if they get relegated because they can survive so what happens now is they overspend spend the money the first year realize they need to spend less and get relegated the year after with massive debts.

For us it makes it a massively unfair system so I think if the Prem are going to start paying out 120mil then that needs to be spread over the 3 pro lower tiers in %. So 60% for tier 2 30% for tier 3 and 10% for tier 4.

Reward should be for winners not for losers everything else should be kept on a level playing field.

Thats the kiddie but make it 200mill! and wage cap the individual leagues. Lets see who goes bust then?

[Wycombe Royal]

The simple fact is that parachute payments are there to stop the relegared clubs going bust (although some still seem to be able to have a go at doing it). When we went up we didn't break the bank, we didn't have a huge wage bill, we didn't spend much on transfers, and so on. But on relegation we would have gone into administration had it not been for the parachute payments.

The reason is simplay because the gulf between costs in the Championship and costs in the Premier League is huge. This is mainly due to player wages and players get on average 3 year deals and these don't magically get terminated when you are relgated and it isn't possible to sell all of them in the firat summer after relegation. Our players had a 40% pay cut on relegation but even that isn't enough.

The current system of parachute payments is just about right, 2 years at £11m and does not need to be changed.

This summer we are having to cut more costs in order to run at break even next season but I believe we have gone about things the right and havenot abused the parachute payment system by using to fund further spending upon relegation that has seen others clubs in serious financial trouble in the past.

In summary, yes they are unfair, but they are also necessary.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The simple fact is that parachute payments are there to stop the relegared clubs going bust (although some still seem to be able to have a go at doing it). When we went up we didn't break the bank, we didn't have a huge wage bill, we didn't spend much on transfers, and so on. But on relegation we would have gone into administration had it not been for the parachute payments.

The reason is simplay because the gulf between costs in the Championship and costs in the Premier League is huge. This is mainly due to player wages and players get on average 3 year deals and these don't magically get terminated when you are relgated and it isn't possible to sell all of them in the firat summer after relegation. Our players had a 40% pay cut on relegation but even that isn't enough.

The current system of parachute payments is just about right, 2 years at £11m and does not need to be changed.

This summer we are having to cut more costs in order to run at break even next season but I believe we have gone about things the right and havenot abused the parachute payment system by using to fund further spending upon relegation that has seen others clubs in serious financial trouble in the past.

In summary, yes they are unfair, but they are also necessary.

The plain fact is the whole premier league system is wrong, Players wages are ridiculous, When you consider how much crap players earn, A case in point is El Haj Diouf, The man is and has always been as average a player in the premier league almost certainly on 30k per week plus. I find it unbelievable that contracts cannot contain clauses whereby if a team is relegated then they return to championship wages.

Congratulations to clubs like Reading, Birmingham, West Brom and Burnley who are clubs that are properly run. However unlike a lot of people I find the whole Portsmouth thing unsavoury, I am really fed up with them playing the victims, As if it's somebody elses fault the way the club has been run and having 3 different owners in one season can't help, Especially if 2 of those owners haven't actually had the funds they purported to have, it all proves that the way the premier league operates and the way they check potential owners dosen't work.

[CotswoldRed]

I find it unbelievable that contracts cannot contain clauses whereby if a team is relegated then they return to championship wages.

They can. But (most) players won't sign them.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

They can. But (most) players won't sign them.

Say's just about everything you need to know about your average footballer then.

[CliftonCliff]

To some extent, this is a question of politics versus principle.

The politics of it is, I would suggest, rooted in the fact that some influential Premier clubs are now getting very nervous indeed about finances. I don't just mean those that are obviously more vulnerable in the lower levels of the Prem, though what we hear about not only Portsmouth but Hull and others as well clearly shows how fragile they'd be without these payments. We've also seen what can happen to relagated clubs when their parachute payments dry up because they haven't succeeded in getting back to the Prem within a couple of years. We read about the parlous state of clubs' finances at all levels of the game on an almost daily basis.

These proposals are really a thinly veiled attempt to make the Prem and the upper tier of the Championship in effect a closed shop. Owners of even the most powerful clubs have saddled them with huge debts and it would suit the interests of Liverpool and Man Utd as well as the minnows to have this deal in place. The substantial increases on offer to CCC clubs is a barely disguised bribe: agree and we'll grease your palms; resist and we may threaten to cut the payments you currently receive.

It's the greed and profligacy of clubs and their owners that has made the proposed increases necessary. Agreeing to it gives them the green light to continue behaving in this way. They're like bankers flogging bundles of sub-prime mortgages, and it will eventually lead to a similar outcome if it's allowed to keep on escalating. The big clubs must also be very twitchy about Platini's campaign to introduce Europe-wide rules on club finances that would aim to stop clubs gaining unfair advantage through huge transfer fees and sky-high wages financed by ultimately unsustainable debt.

As Dan has rightly said, if you're a pragmatist, you may take the view that we're in with a decent shout of being on the inside of this exclusive group of maybe thirty clubs that will be created. Whether you agree with the principle of effectively saying "sod the rest, we're alright" is another matter. We would do well to recall that just a few weeks ago, we were arguably within a short run of further bad results of getting relegated back to League One.

The stakes are very high, whichever side of the divide you fall on. If you're a small club, it may spell being permanently consigned to the relative obscurity of the lower leagues with almost no hope of ever breaking out. If you're in the Prem, or among the better CCC clubs in with a good chance of getting there soon, it may look attractive. Scudamore's perspective is fairly obvious. If this doesn't happen and, worse still Platini has his way, clubs will have to clear their debts and start living within their means. That will see the gradual disappearance of the huge advantage the Premier League currently enjoys, on which its position as the pre-eminent football "product" on sale to TV is based. If wages and transfer fees have to fall in line with what clubs can actually afford, there will be fewer 'galacticos' in England and the "product" will be worth less, which is likely to set in motion a downward spiral that will hit the revenues of even the richest and most successful clubs. It won't be possible to buy success on the field in the same way. Whether you think that's a bad or a good thing, well...

That's my take on it at the moment, anyway. There may be flaws in my reasoning and gaps in my understanding, which I'm sure others will be quick to put me straight on. I offer it as a basis for further discussion. There will always be inequities in the game, and that's a given, but this is something else altogether. Personally, and for what it's worth, as one of the older contributors to this site I am romantically attached to the notion of fair competition and the possibilty that, exceptionally, relatively small clubs can still make it to the top level. It will start to be the death of the game as we know it if this attempt to make the gap unbreachable goes through.

I am strongly against it - even if Bristol City might be among those to benefit - and make no secret of the fact that I despise the motives behind it and the men responsible for it. If you are a politician when it comes to football, you might want to see this scheme introduced. If you you believe in the fundamental sporting principle of fair competition, you won't.

[cityhead]

parachute payments are only part of what's wrong with football.

Unfortuntely, we could, and have discussed this situation for weeks, months and years.

Who are more at fault - the fans for setting expectations too high, or owners egos chasing the glory.

At the end of the day money talks, whether you or I are offered a new job with £1k a year more or players offered tens of thousands a WEEK more.

However unpalatable it may be to the people who run football the EU or governments have to put some controls in place to stop clubs borrowing more than they can afford. If a club defaults on a suppliers bill, the inland revenue or the players wages then they forfeit the next game until they can settle their debts.

Also, if a player is ineligable to play, ie been sent off or collected too many yellows, failed drugs test etc then he does not get paid, the same as the rest of the employed world.

Rant over!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

To some extent, this is a question of politics versus principle.

The politics of it is, I would suggest, rooted in the fact that some influential Premier clubs are now getting very nervous indeed about finances. I don't just mean those that are obviously more vulnerable in the lower levels of the Prem, though what we hear about not only Portsmouth but Hull and others as well clearly shows how fragile they'd be without these payments. We've also seen what can happen to relagated clubs when their parachute payments dry up because they haven't succeeded in getting back to the Prem within a couple of years. We read about the parlous state of clubs' finances at all levels of the game on an almost daily basis.

These proposals are really a thinly veiled attempt to make the Prem and the upper tier of the Championship in effect a closed shop. Owners of even the most powerful clubs have saddled them with huge debts and it would suit the interests of Liverpool and Man Utd as well as the minnows to have this deal in place. The substantial increases on offer to CCC clubs is a barely disguised bribe: agree and we'll grease your palms; resist and we may threaten to cut the payments you currently receive.

It's the greed and profligacy of clubs and their owners that has made the proposed increases necessary. Agreeing to it gives them the green light to continue behaving in this way. They're like bankers flogging bundles of sub-prime mortgages, and it will eventually lead to a similar outcome if it's allowed to keep on escalating. The big clubs must also be very twitchy about Platini's campaign to introduce Europe-wide rules on club finances that would aim to stop clubs gaining unfair advantage through huge transfer fees and sky-high wages financed by ultimately unsustainable debt.

As Dan has rightly said, if you're a pragmatist, you may take the view that we're in with a decent shout of being on the inside of this exclusive group of maybe thirty clubs that will be created. Whether you agree with the principle of effectively saying "sod the rest, we're alright" is another matter. We would do well to recall that just a few weeks ago, we were arguably within a short run of further bad results of getting relegated back to League One.

The stakes are very high, whichever side of the divide you fall on. If you're a small club, it may spell being permanently consigned to the relative obscurity of the lower leagues with almost no hope of ever breaking out. If you're in the Prem, or among the better CCC clubs in with a good chance of getting there soon, it may look attractive. Scudamore's perspective is fairly obvious. If this doesn't happen and, worse still Platini has his way, clubs will have to clear their debts and start living within their means. That will see the gradual disappearance of the huge advantage the Premier League currently enjoys, on which its position as the pre-eminent football "product" on sale to TV is based. If wages and transfer fees have to fall in line with what clubs can actually afford, there will be fewer 'galacticos' in England and the "product" will be worth less, which is likely to set in motion a downward spiral that will hit the revenues of even the richest and most successful clubs. It won't be possible to buy success on the field in the same way. Whether you think that's a bad or a good thing, well...

That's my take on it at the moment, anyway. There may be flaws in my reasoning and gaps in my understanding, which I'm sure others will be quick to put me straight on. I offer it as a basis for further discussion. There will always be inequities in the game, and that's a given, but this is something else altogether. Personally, and for what it's worth, as one of the older contributors to this site I am romantically attached to the notion of fair competition and the possibilty that, exceptionally, relatively small clubs can still make it to the top level. It will start to be the death of the game as we know it if this attempt to make the gap unbreachable goes through.

I am strongly against it - even if Bristol City might be among those to benefit - and make no secret of the fact that I despise the motives behind it and the men responsible for it. If you are a politician when it comes to football, you might want to see this scheme introduced. If you you believe in the fundamental sporting principle of fair competition, you won't.

interesting your quote about Michel Platini, Bearing in mind that in recent history France has won the world cup and the european championship and especially when English clubs are raiding various French clubs academies for youngsters, The French model must be doing something right.

My understanding is that French clubs have to publish their budget for the coming season and have to stick to it. Now I spend a lot of time in Brittany and there are 4 league teams in that area.

The closest team to me are Lorient and they are in the French first division, Lorient has a population of 58,000 and average crowds of around 14,000. in 2002 they reached both national cup finals (won one and lost one) and were relegated back to league 2, 2 seasons later they were re-promoted to the 1st division and have improved season by season. This season they are in 7th position, They have one of the best coaches in France in Christian Gourcuff.

in France most grounds are owned by the regional government and are community based, The community can use all of the facilities which include a massive all weather training facility, another proper pitch (which also has an all weather running track) all this is attached to the stadium. They have corporate boxes, They have just had a new 10 million euro stand built paid for by regional government (which houses a 500 seat theatre/function suite) again available for community use. During the summer the ground is used for the massive week long interceltic festival.

My argument is that the premier league system prevents this sort of dream for smaller clubs from happening (unless they play Russian roulette with their finances) and if Lorient continue their present improvement european football could be well within reach in the next few seasons.

[CliftonCliff]

interesting your quote about Michel Platini, Bearing in mind that in recent history France has won the world cup and the european championship and especially when English clubs are raiding various French clubs academies for youngsters, The French model must be doing something right.

My understanding is that French clubs have to publish their budget for the coming season and have to stick to it. Now I spend a lot of time in Brittany and there are 4 league teams in that area.

The closest team to me are Lorient and they are in the French first division, Lorient has a population of 58,000 and average crowds of around 14,000. in 2002 they reached both national cup finals (won one and lost one) and were relegated back to league 2, 2 seasons later they were re-promoted to the 1st division and have improved season by season. This season they are in 7th position, They have one of the best coaches in France in Christian Gourcuff.

in France most grounds are owned by the regional government and are community based, The community can use all of the facilities which include a massive all weather training facility, another proper pitch (which also has an all weather running track) all this is attached to the stadium. They have corporate boxes, They have just had a new 10 million euro stand built paid for by regional government (which houses a 500 seat theatre/function suite) again available for community use. During the summer the ground is used for the massive week long interceltic festival.

My argument is that the premier league system prevents this sort of dream for smaller clubs from happening (unless they play Russian roulette with their finances) and if Lorient continue their present improvement european football could be well within reach in the next few seasons.

Very interesting read, Esmond, thanks. I'm clearly not the only one who feels deep unease about the future of the game here. I do believe the day will come when there will have to be changes, whether radical or gradual and evolutionary, to the way the game is structured and the French model you describe may be one we can learn from.

It'll be a long time coming, though, whatever form it takes. At the moment, we are firmly in the grasp of the money men, who are driven by their love of wealth, not football. However, it's in the nature of greed that, by definition, it can never be satisfied, which is why the Glazers, Hicks, Gilletts and others of this world usually end up sooner or later getting more and more reckless and overcooking it - which in turn is why I drew a parallel with the bankers. The fear is about, among other things, when we reach that stage, which I think we will, the damage is reversible or irrepairable. We had government rescues for the banks, because of the economic imperatives involved. That won't be the case with football. I hope I'm wrong, but I think some clubs will literally disappear. Thank God for Steve Lansdown. If anyone can navigate a path through this, it's probably him.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Very interesting read, Esmond, thanks. I'm clearly not the only one who feels deep unease about the future of the game here. I do believe the day will come when there will have to be changes, whether radical or gradual and evolutionary, to the way the game is structured and the French model you describe may be one we can learn from.

It'll be a long time coming, though, whatever form it takes. At the moment, we are firmly in the grasp of the money men, who are driven by their love of wealth, not football. However, it's in the nature of greed that, by definition, it can never be satisfied, which is why the Glazers, Hicks, Gilletts and others of this world usually end up sooner or later getting more and more reckless and overcooking it - which in turn is why I drew a parallel with the bankers. The fear is about, among other things, when we reach that stage, which I think we will, the damage is reversible or irrepairable. We had government rescues for the banks, because of the economic imperatives involved. That won't be the case with football. I hope I'm wrong, but I think some clubs will literally disappear. Thank God for Steve Lansdown. If anyone can navigate a path through this, it's probably him.

The biggest club in Brittany is Rennes, Rennes is about half the size of Bristol (but the metropolitan area is bigger) Rennes play in a state of the art stadium again with with superb training facilities attached to the ground, They average around 24,000 crowds withe the occasional 30+, Their academy is one of the best in europe and produces a steady stream of youngsters into the 1st team and their scouts find quality talent all over the world. They have recently had 2 seasons in the eufa cup competition and are owned by the fifth wealthiest man in France. They never over stretch themselves financially but produce quality players who play all over europe and have brought huge transfer fees too the club, Petr Cech, John Utaka, Jonny Mensah, Micael Silvestre, Jean Claude Darcheville, Sylvan Wiltord, Kim Kallstrom, Mario Melchiot and Bruno Cheyrou are players either brought on and sold by the club or through their academy or recently played for the club.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

of course too make the French model work, National and local government need to invest and that will never happen in the UK, Too much money is wasted in so many areas.

Again even in rural France the small villages have good quality football pitches (usually with training facilities) sometimes with tennis courts and basketball courts, All of the facilities are maintained by the local authorities, Because they are community facilities.

[CliftonCliff]

The biggest club in Brittany is Rennes, Rennes is about half the size of Bristol (but the metropolitan area is bigger) Rennes play in a state of the art stadium again with with superb training facilities attached to the ground, They average around 24,000 crowds withe the occasional 30+, Their academy is one of the best in europe and produces a steady stream of youngsters into the 1st team and their scouts find quality talent all over the world. They have recently had 2 seasons in the eufa cup competition and are owned by the fifth wealthiest man in France. They never over stretch themselves financially but produce quality players who play all over europe and have brought huge transfer fees too the club, Petr Cech, John Utaka, Jonny Mensah, Micael Silvestre, Jean Claude Darcheville, Sylvan Wiltord, Kim Kallstrom, Mario Melchiot and Bruno Cheyrou are players either brought on and sold by the club or through their academy or recently played for the club.

Our academy will have to raise its game a bit to match that! Very impressive.

[chinapig]

We discussed at least once before but always worth returning to as it's ramifications are so significant:

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/126827-football-league-meeting/page__p__1233990__fromsearch__1&#entry1233990

[chinapig]

[chipdawg]

of course too make the French model work, National and local government need to invest and that will never happen in the UK, Too much money is wasted in so many areas.

Again even in rural France the small villages have good quality football pitches (usually with training facilities) sometimes with tennis courts and basketball courts, All of the facilities are maintained by the local authorities, Because they are community facilities.

Community sporting facilities are indeed much better in France than the UK, although their entire attitude to sport is different to ours. I suspect that within the next few years such facilities will be established over here to combat growing obesity, but whether social attitudes towards such facilities or the coaching techniques that accompany them change are quite another issue. However, i wouldn't wish for such unecquivocal support of investment; the French government is tied into a number of service provisions that they can't afford, enforced by France's own, unique brand of 'socialism', i.e. set a lorry on fire on the Champs Elysee if Sarkozy looks at you a bit funny. The French equivalent of the NHS is amazing but it costs an unsustainable amount of money. The governement can't reform it as the trade unions will just blockade ferry ports and cripple the economy

Anyway, parachute payments are neccessary in my opinion but they don't need to be extended; no promoted team should be offering more than a 3 year contract and if they buy a crap player they can't shift on then its their own fault

[Pezo]

parachute payments are only part of what's wrong with football.

Unfortuntely, we could, and have discussed this situation for weeks, months and years.

Who are more at fault - the fans for setting expectations too high, or owners egos chasing the glory.

At the end of the day money talks, whether you or I are offered a new job with £1k a year more or players offered tens of thousands a WEEK more.

However unpalatable it may be to the people who run football the EU or governments have to put some controls in place to stop clubs borrowing more than they can afford. If a club defaults on a suppliers bill, the inland revenue or the players wages then they forfeit the next game until they can settle their debts.

Also, if a player is ineligable to play, ie been sent off or collected too many yellows, failed drugs test etc then he does not get paid, the same as the rest of the employed world.

Rant over!

While I think there needs to be controls put in place I think maybe this one would be to harsh - its like saying your not aloud to make any money because you cant afford to pay your debts, I think most clubs would argue how on earth are they supposed to pay there debts then. I think a better evolution of this would be that a club gets 1 point for a win and no points for a draw while its in administration and for whole of the next season after they get out of administration they only get 2 points for a win and no points for a draw, this would still mean fans are not punished and the club can still have some income while ensuring that there is a somewhat long and drawn out punishment which should halt doggy business practices.

[CliftonCliff]

[CodeRed]

The biggest club in Brittany is Rennes, Rennes is about half the size of Bristol (but the metropolitan area is bigger) Rennes play in a state of the art stadium again with with superb training facilities attached to the ground, They average around 24,000 crowds withe the occasional 30+, Their academy is one of the best in europe and produces a steady stream of youngsters into the 1st team and their scouts find quality talent all over the world. They have recently had 2 seasons in the eufa cup competition and are owned by the fifth wealthiest man in France. They never over stretch themselves financially but produce quality players who play all over europe and have brought huge transfer fees too the club, Petr Cech, John Utaka, Jonny Mensah, Micael Silvestre, Jean Claude Darcheville, Sylvan Wiltord, Kim Kallstrom, Mario Melchiot and Bruno Cheyrou are players either brought on and sold by the club or through their academy or recently played for the club.

Interesting stuff - do you know what the average ticket price is for a club like Rennes?

I've visited most regions of France over the last 20 years and - as you point out in your other post - even a small town or community has excellent municipal sports facillities especially tennis, swimming, and football including all weather pitches etc

CR

[Esmond Million's Bung]

At Rennes the best seats in the stadium are 44 to 55 euros (£37 to £45), 22 to 26 euros everywhere else (£18 to £22).

Lorient is 20 to 48 euros (£17 to £40).