Dear Mr Cameron

[Big Stan Hibbert]

Nice work, really family friendly that. So to save £1bn per year, you decide to penalise hard working folk with families to support. You make me sick.

Wonder what else you and your silver spoon sucking toff pals will come up with.

I appreciate that this country is in a mess but come on.....

PS - I hope you read OTIB.

Interested to hear other opinions on this. (Not whether DC reads OTIB).

[WesM]

Without wishing to start a fight, I think it's a brilliant idea, but the banding to me seems a little low. I wouldn't say people that earn over 40k a year are rich enough to excluded from receiving CB, but the Super-Rich, the millionaires of this world certainly are. Perhaps a fairer means test would be the answer?

I know people say 'they are entitled to it' but the fact of the matter is, they don't need it. This country pays £177m A DAY in interest on it's loans. Unless serious and effective measure like this are put into place now, the budget deficit will never be cut.

I'm no Tory, but if their figures published today are correct, then this will save £2 BILLION a year.

[Nibor]

The proposed change is ridiculous in that one parent on £44k and one on £0 = no child benefit but two parents earning £40k each for a total of £80k still get child benefit. There's also now a situation where a small payrise can mean a real cut in income not just relatively. That shows some quite flawed thinking.

We do have to cut spending, but the argument against removing child benefit on means is that it is for the benefit of the child not the parents, and that people earning the higher tax rate are already paying not just more but proportionally more too so it would seem unfair.

I await with interest to see what will happen to the rest of the benefits system;

I am hoping we end up with a fair system where:

- those who want to work are offered meaningful training and help

- those able to work but used to skiving HAVE to work in return the dole (no more freeloading)

- those genuinely not able to work through illness/injury/disability are properly supported by the state

I am not holding my breath though. The Tories can be trusted to cut, they can't be trusted to cut the right things.

I must admit I was pleased with the list of quangos they are assessing, finally.

[Guest redcliff red]

What I want to know is, who owns the Bank of England (if it's the people, then why are we paying interest on our own money?), and who do we owe the national debt to?

In todays papers, Cameron is looking at cutting benefits by about 40% "To ensure you will be better off in work". The man is absolutely insane! There isn't the work there in the first place. He he has got his head right up the oilgarchs asses.

Also in yesterdays papers, a second banking collapse is imminent. Which IMHO has been deliberately created to ensure the government will be morally justified in employing the use of totalitarian measures including martial law. If there is any truth in todays news statements, then it's further proof of the forthcoming societal collapse. The Prime Minister is either with the bankers, or he is with the "terrorists" (that will be us by the way). We have already been declared as possible terrorists.

The truth about terrorism is that it is always controlled by very high level elitists, who ring rent-a-mob to turn a march into a riot and make patsies out of innocent civilians before shooting them dead as "terrorists". It wont be long before anyone who speaks their mind will be whipped of the streets and imprisoned for many years without trial. For example, I firmly believe that Israel commited 9/11 (dancing mossad agents). Now we are being told by government ''experts'' that anybody who questions the ''official story'' are responsible for the ''breakdown'' of society, that they usurp and cause disharmony by telling sheeple to wake up. This disinformation campaign has begun to create ''home grown terrorists'' out of free thinkers. Next it will be totalitarian fascism, ID cards and tattoes on the arms the lot.

[Philip Belgrave]

What I want to know is, who owns the Bank of England (if it's the people, then why are we paying interest on our own money?), and who do we owe the national debt to?

In todays papers, Cameron is looking at cutting benefits by about 40% "To ensure you will be better off in work". The man is absolutely insane! There isn't the work there in the first place. He he has got his head right up the oilgarchs asses.

Also in yesterdays papers, a second banking collapse is imminent. Which IMHO has been deliberately created to ensure the government will be morally justified in employing the use of totalitarian measures including martial law. If there is any truth in todays news statements, then it's further proof of the forthcoming societal collapse. The Prime Minister is either with the bankers, or he is with the "terrorists" (that will be us by the way). We have already been declared as possible terrorists.

The truth about terrorism is that it is always controlled by very high level elitists, who ring rent-a-mob to turn a march into a riot and make patsies out of innocent civilians before shooting them dead as "terrorists". It wont be long before anyone who speaks their mind will be whipped of the streets and imprisoned for many years without trial. For example, I firmly believe that Israel commited 9/11 (dancing mossad agents). Now we are being told by government ''experts'' that anybody who questions the ''official story'' are responsible for the ''breakdown'' of society, that they usurp and cause disharmony by telling sheeple to wake up. This disinformation campaign has begun to create ''home grown terrorists'' out of free thinkers. Next it will be totalitarian fascism, ID cards and tattoes on the arms the lot.

Interesting:

" I firmly believe that Israel commited 9/11 "

Evidence ?

[Big Stan Hibbert]

The proposed change is ridiculous in that one parent on £44k and one on £0 = no child benefit but two parents earning £40k each for a total of £80k still get child benefit. There's also now a situation where a small payrise can mean a real cut in income not just relatively. That shows some quite flawed thinking.

Spot on. To rub salt in, Mr Cameron on Breakfast this morning basically said, "We have to make some tough decisions. This isn't fair, but to make it a fair means tested policy where family income is assessed we would have to put a bit more effort in, so if you don't like it, lump it".

Although I'm struggling with the notion of how this links to 9/11...??

[Nibor]

What I want to know is, who owns the Bank of England (if it's the people, then why are we paying interest on our own money?), and who do we owe the national debt to?

In todays papers, Cameron is looking at cutting benefits by about 40% "To ensure you will be better off in work". The man is absolutely insane! There isn't the work there in the first place. He he has got his head right up the oilgarchs asses.

Also in yesterdays papers, a second banking collapse is imminent. Which IMHO has been deliberately created to ensure the government will be morally justified in employing the use of totalitarian measures including martial law. If there is any truth in todays news statements, then it's further proof of the forthcoming societal collapse. The Prime Minister is either with the bankers, or he is with the "terrorists" (that will be us by the way). We have already been declared as possible terrorists.

The truth about terrorism is that it is always controlled by very high level elitists, who ring rent-a-mob to turn a march into a riot and make patsies out of innocent civilians before shooting them dead as "terrorists". It wont be long before anyone who speaks their mind will be whipped of the streets and imprisoned for many years without trial. For example, I firmly believe that Israel commited 9/11 (dancing mossad agents). Now we are being told by government ''experts'' that anybody who questions the ''official story'' are responsible for the ''breakdown'' of society, that they usurp and cause disharmony by telling sheeple to wake up. This disinformation campaign has begun to create ''home grown terrorists'' out of free thinkers. Next it will be totalitarian fascism, ID cards and tattoes on the arms the lot.

From child benefit to al-qaeda. Red Goblin you have a rival!

I'm fine with benefits being cut for those who choose not to work. I'm not sure I trust the Tories to get that right though.

The debt is owed via bonds and securities which are bought by investors. Probably the debt is owed to your pension company.

As for all the terrorism stuff, that's purest fiction.

[Dollymarie]

They argue that setting up some kind of system to work out which household has a combined income over this threshold would cost more money than they are trying to save. I think it should be worked out on the combined income because otherwise stay at home Mum can argue she earns nothing so is entitled to said benefit, but Dad who goes out and earns £50k means it doesnt get counted.

Sorry but someone on upwards of £44k a year isn't going to miss £20 a week.

[Big Stan Hibbert]

Sorry but someone on upwards of £44k a year isn't going to miss £20 a week.

That's very generalistic and pretty unreasonable Dolly...

Some of the people who are now at that tax bracket are saddled with huge debts incurred (out of necessity in most cases) by trying to further their education at university to enable them to earn that wage. Gross income is not necessarily a reflection of disposable income.

I'm all for reducing the debt burden but it is completely unfair to say "means testing a family income will cost more and reduce the potential saving therefore we won't do it".

[Nibor]

They argue that setting up some kind of system to work out which household has a combined income over this threshold would cost more money than they are trying to save. I think it should be worked out on the combined income because otherwise stay at home Mum can argue she earns nothing so is entitled to said benefit, but Dad who goes out and earns £50k means it doesnt get counted.

They obviously know both the parents and their income or they couldn't implement the system as they are proposing. Adding the two numbers together cannot possibly make this more complicated, it should definitely be done.

Sorry but someone on upwards of £44k a year isn't going to miss £20 a week.

Depends what their circumstances are surely?

And in any case, is it fair? People who earn more already pay more - that's how percentages work and they also already pay proportionally more thanks to the step up in the percentage rate. Why should that proportion increase further? It's not a massive amount but the principle here is what causes doctors, scientists, successful entrepreneurs and other people the UK has invested in to bugger off abroad and pay tax somewhere else.

The flip side of your statement is that people who need £20 child benefit can't afford to have kids - I can't see that getting much support!

[Guest redcliff red]

Interesting:

" I firmly believe that Israel commited 9/11 "

Evidence ?

A group of Mosad agents (Iraeli intelligence operatives) set up video cameras to film the twin towers IN ADVANCE of the first plane hitting. When the planes struck they were seen dancing and celebrating. They were later arrested by the FBI and a large amount of explosives was found in their van: My link

Annie Machon is the MI5 whistleblower who explained why Mosad was responsible for 9/11 and not Bin Laden: My link

The FBI has absolutely no evidence whatsoever linking Bin Laden with the attacks. The CIA later admitted that a video of Bin Laden claiming responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, had actually been faked by them. If Bin Laden did it, why would they feel the need to create a fake video of him admitting to it?

Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook had this to say, only 2 weeks before he died in mysterious circumstances: ''The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaeda. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the devil only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The countries behind this propaganda is the US and Israel''.

[Dollymarie]

Goblin? Is that you?

[Guest redcliff red]

Goblin? Is that you?

Me? I don't know who 'Goblin' is. The only reason I signed up is because you can't view the forum without signing in anymore.

I used to just read the boards (for the past 2 years) but you forced me to sign up!

[Barrs Court Red]

I'm dissapointed that the benefits system hasn't been scrapped all together.

Bring back workhouses, as we all know work sets you free......................

[Philip Belgrave]

A group of Mosad agents (Iraeli intelligence operatives) set up video cameras to film the twin towers IN ADVANCE of the first plane hitting. When the planes struck they were seen dancing and celebrating. They were later arrested by the FBI and a large amount of explosives was found in their van: My link

Annie Machon is the MI5 whistleblower who explained why Mosad was responsible for 9/11 and not Bin Laden: My link

The FBI has absolutely no evidence whatsoever linking Bin Laden with the attacks. The CIA later admitted that a video of Bin Laden claiming responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, had actually been faked by them. If Bin Laden did it, why would they feel the need to create a fake video of him admitting to it?

Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook had this to say, only 2 weeks before he died in mysterious circumstances: ''The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaeda. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the devil only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The countries behind this propaganda is the US and Israel''.

Thank you for taking the trouble of providing a fullsome response.

But even taking all this on-board, uncritically ( a nice piece of innuendo re the Late Mr Cook) , given the alleged non-existence of Al Qaeda,can it be assumed that all terrorist activities this century, London, Madrid, Bali, etc are the work of MOSSAD

or similar agencies ?

[Barrs Court Red]

Interestingly a yougov poll suggested that 81% support this lateset move. The only arguments I can see are those like Nibors, who presume the British people have some duty to pay for the kids of people who can already affored to pay. I have a child due, only because we've budgeted so that we can affored it.

The problem with state handouts is that although it was created witht he best intentions, too many people see it as a right. I would be interested to know if there was such outrage with Labour reduced the state handouts for children from £40 to £20 in the 90's? I suspect not.