The Village Green Argument Is A Farce

[nebristolred]

I'm sorry, this program was meant to be a debate about the Village Green status wasn't it?

Village Green applications, to me, should involve discussion as to whether or not the area is used as a greenland by local residents, etc.

So why then, was the debate involving transport issues, the England World Cup bid, the Championship league table, the validity of statistical surveys of the people of Bristol, and God knows what else? They have nothing to do with the land and how much it is currently used the public (sod all).

These issues have been discussed by the council, and they gave us planning permission, so arguments involving that should not be even considered.

I seriously wonder what goes through some peoples minds. I'm sat here trying to imagine what my feelings would be if I wasn't a biased football supporter, so can we imagine for a second that Bristol wants to build a world class arena for ballet dancing. While I couldn't give a **** about ballet dancing, if it was going to generate millions of pounds of money for the area, and create thousands of jobs, I would put myself behind it straight away.

So, even forgetting the fact that we are football supporters, 99% of people would be in favour of anything that would benefit Bristol as a whole, not just a football club. These people clearly aren't lovers of Bristol, and don't want Bristol to ever become as big as other major cities in the UK. I genuinely feel let down. If Bristol can't get even a half-decent arena or stadium, yet places with a much smaller population can, then we are going to get ridiculously left behind.

Derby, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Leicester, Bolton, Stoke, Darlington, Hull, Wigan, Huddersfield, Reading, Milton Keynes, Doncaster

All smaller places than Bristol, yet they can pull their finger out and try and be ambitious, and all we can do is send ourselves backwards.

Disgrace.

[beaverface]

I'm sorry, this program was meant to be a debate about the Village Green status wasn't it?

Village Green applications, to me, should involve discussion as to whether or not the area is used as a greenland by local residents, etc.

So why then, was the debate involving transport issues, the England World Cup bid, the Championship league table, the validity of statistical surveys of the people of Bristol, and God knows what else? They have nothing to do with the land and how much it is currently used the public (sod all).

These issues have been discussed by the council, and they gave us planning permission, so arguments involving that should not be even considered.

I seriously wonder what goes through some peoples minds. I'm sat here trying to imagine what my feelings would be if I wasn't a biased football supporter, so can we imagine for a second that Bristol wants to build a world class arena for ballet dancing. While I couldn't give a **** about ballet dancing, if it was going to generate millions of pounds of money for the area, and create thousands of jobs, I would put myself behind it straight away.

So, even forgetting the fact that we are football supporters, 99% of people would be in favour of anything that would benefit Bristol as a whole, not just a football club. These people clearly aren't lovers of Bristol, and don't want Bristol to ever become as big as other major cities in the UK. I genuinely feel let down. If Bristol can't get even a half-decent arena or stadium, yet places with a much smaller population can, then we are going to get ridiculously left behind.

Derby, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Leicester, Bolton, Stoke, Darlington, Hull, Wigan, Huddersfield, Reading, Milton Keynes, Doncaster

All smaller places than Bristol, yet they can pull their finger out and try and be ambitious, and all we can do is send ourselves backwards.

Disgrace.

I'm a proud Bristolian, but I don't necessarily want Bristol to get as big as major Cities throughout the UK, but I do want us to keep improving what we've got, and in my eyes, replacing a rubbish tip with a state of the art stadium and improving transport links is a must.

Those thoughts also apply throughout all the areas of Bristol, each run-down area should be improved rather than continue to expand outwards, I like the fact that Bristol is isolated by green fields on the axis of each point of the compass.

[bristolcitysweden]

I'm sorry, this program was meant to be a debate about the Village Green status wasn't it?

Village Green applications, to me, should involve discussion as to whether or not the area is used as a greenland by local residents, etc.

So why then, was the debate involving transport issues, the England World Cup bid, the Championship league table, the validity of statistical surveys of the people of Bristol, and God knows what else? They have nothing to do with the land and how much it is currently used the public (sod all).

These issues have been discussed by the council, and they gave us planning permission, so arguments involving that should not be even considered.

I seriously wonder what goes through some peoples minds. I'm sat here trying to imagine what my feelings would be if I wasn't a biased football supporter, so can we imagine for a second that Bristol wants to build a world class arena for ballet dancing. While I couldn't give a **** about ballet dancing, if it was going to generate millions of pounds of money for the area, and create thousands of jobs, I would put myself behind it straight away.

So, even forgetting the fact that we are football supporters, 99% of people would be in favour of anything that would benefit Bristol as a whole, not just a football club. These people clearly aren't lovers of Bristol, and don't want Bristol to ever become as big as other major cities in the UK. I genuinely feel let down. If Bristol can't get even a half-decent arena or stadium, yet places with a much smaller population can, then we are going to get ridiculously left behind.

Derby, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Leicester, Bolton, Stoke, Darlington, Hull, Wigan, Huddersfield, Reading, Milton Keynes, Doncaster

All smaller places than Bristol, yet they can pull their finger out and try and be ambitious, and all we can do is send ourselves backwards.

Disgrace.

Truly embarrasing. The people backing this pack are more than odd.

[redcityman]

I think Mike Norton summed it up perfectly when he said this TVG application was nothing to do with saving green spaces, but purely the latest ploy to stop BCFC from building a stadium at any cost.

[NOTR]

I'm a proud Bristolian, but I don't necessarily want Bristol to get as big as major Cities throughout the UK, but I do want us to keep improving what we've got, and in my eyes, replacing a rubbish tip with a state of the art stadium and improving transport links is a must.

Those thoughts also apply throughout all the areas of Bristol, each run-down area should be improved rather than continue to expand outwards, I like the fact that Bristol is isolated by green fields on the axis of each point of the compass.

Bristol has reached its limits to the north and east[M5, M4],to the west we have the avon gorge,wich leaves the south and south east.Bristol,as with all popular cities will continue to grow,not many options left really.

[riggers]

All might be lost, even if this Town Green application is past

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-11821251

Hope I have got this link right

[InCider]

All might be lost, even if this Town Green application is past

http://www.bbc.co.uk...dorset-11821251

Hope I have got this link right

Link works fine. Very interesting story.

[riggers]

All might be lost, even if this Town Green application is past

http://www.bbc.co.uk...dorset-11821251

Hope I have got this link right

Sorry, should say not lost!!!!

[nebristolred]

That case is only because the law was inappropriately applied though.

[NOTR]

That case is only because the law was inappropriately applied though.

surley this is our main point.

[LSR]

I'm a proud Bristolian, but I don't necessarily want Bristol to get as big as major Cities throughout the UK, but I do want us to keep improving what we've got, and in my eyes, replacing a rubbish tip with a state of the art stadium and improving transport links is a must.

Those thoughts also apply throughout all the areas of Bristol, each run-down area should be improved rather than continue to expand outwards, I like the fact that Bristol is isolated by green fields on the axis of each point of the compass.

its not theres alot of water to the west

[nebristolred]

surley this is our main point.

No, because you would assume the law will be correctly applied this time.

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm sorry, this program was meant to be a debate about the Village Green status wasn't it?

Village Green applications, to me, should involve discussion as to whether or not the area is used as a greenland by local residents, etc.

So why then, was the debate involving transport issues, the England World Cup bid, the Championship league table, the validity of statistical surveys of the people of Bristol, and God knows what else? They have nothing to do with the land and how much it is currently used the public (sod all).

These issues have been discussed by the council, and they gave us planning permission, so arguments involving that should not be even considered.

I seriously wonder what goes through some peoples minds. I'm sat here trying to imagine what my feelings would be if I wasn't a biased football supporter, so can we imagine for a second that Bristol wants to build a world class arena for ballet dancing. While I couldn't give a **** about ballet dancing, if it was going to generate millions of pounds of money for the area, and create thousands of jobs, I would put myself behind it straight away.

So, even forgetting the fact that we are football supporters, 99% of people would be in favour of anything that would benefit Bristol as a whole, not just a football club. These people clearly aren't lovers of Bristol, and don't want Bristol to ever become as big as other major cities in the UK. I genuinely feel let down. If Bristol can't get even a half-decent arena or stadium, yet places with a much smaller population can, then we are going to get ridiculously left behind.

Derby, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Leicester, Bolton, Stoke, Darlington, Hull, Wigan, Huddersfield, Reading, Milton Keynes, Doncaster

All smaller places than Bristol, yet they can pull their finger out and try and be ambitious, and all we can do is send ourselves backwards.

Disgrace.

Would you still be behind a World Class Ballet Dancing Arena if if was to be built at the end of your road? Just wondering.

[NickJ]

I'm sorry, this program was meant to be a debate about the Village Green status wasn't it?

Village Green applications, to me, should involve discussion as to whether or not the area is used as a greenland by local residents, etc.

So why then, was the debate involving transport issues, the England World Cup bid, the Championship league table, the validity of statistical surveys of the people of Bristol, and God knows what else? They have nothing to do with the land and how much it is currently used the public (sod all).

These issues have been discussed by the council, and they gave us planning permission, so arguments involving that should not be even considered.

I seriously wonder what goes through some peoples minds. I'm sat here trying to imagine what my feelings would be if I wasn't a biased football supporter, so can we imagine for a second that Bristol wants to build a world class arena for ballet dancing. While I couldn't give a **** about ballet dancing, if it was going to generate millions of pounds of money for the area, and create thousands of jobs, I would put myself behind it straight away.

So, even forgetting the fact that we are football supporters, 99% of people would be in favour of anything that would benefit Bristol as a whole, not just a football club. These people clearly aren't lovers of Bristol, and don't want Bristol to ever become as big as other major cities in the UK. I genuinely feel let down. If Bristol can't get even a half-decent arena or stadium, yet places with a much smaller population can, then we are going to get ridiculously left behind.

Derby, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Leicester, Bolton, Stoke, Darlington, Hull, Wigan, Huddersfield, Reading, Milton Keynes, Doncaster

All smaller places than Bristol, yet they can pull their finger out and try and be ambitious, and all we can do is send ourselves backwards.

Disgrace.

OK, interested in your views on the following.

1. What is better about being a big city than a small city. Are issues such as quality of life and whether you would rather live in say, Guernsey than Bristol, important?

2. Taking in order, clubs that might compare with your above examples: Wolves, Newcastle, Forest, Norwich, Burnley, West Brom, Hartlepool, Grimsby, Blackpool, Leeds, Luton, Wimbledon, Barnsley. How do attendance trends over the past few years compare in each case? Thats the first part of this question, and the second is, do you think it is preferable to watch football in a half empty new stadium or a half empty old one?

3. Milton Keynes or Wimbledon?

[BrizzleRed]

Would you still be behind a World Class Ballet Dancing Arena if if was to be built at the end of your road? Just wondering.

But how many people live 'at the end of the road' compared to living in the rest of the city?

Using that argument, nothing would ever get built anywhere, as there will always be a few people in the close vicinity complaining about any development. Somewhere there have to be decisions taken which are for the greater good of thousands living in the city and this will inevitably mean a few locals are disappointed. You could also view the protesters as being massively selfish in trying to deprive the citizens of Bristol of huge benefits at a time when then are really needed, just to serve their own selfish reasons, so can that be fair?

[nebristolred]

Quite surprised at some replies as I thought we were all City fans but here we go:

Would you still be behind a World Class Ballet Dancing Arena if if was to be built at the end of your road? Just wondering.

Someone always lives near somewhere, and someone has to put up with these things. If it was going to be a massive economical boost to the city, then yes, I would be behind it all the way.

OK, interested in your views on the following.

1. What is better about being a big city than a small city. Are issues such as quality of life and whether you would rather live in say, Guernsey than Bristol, important?

2. Taking in order, clubs that might compare with your above examples: Wolves, Newcastle, Forest, Norwich, Burnley, West Brom, Hartlepool, Grimsby, Blackpool, Leeds, Luton, Wimbledon, Barnsley. How do attendance trends over the past few years compare in each case? Thats the first part of this question, and the second is, do you think it is preferable to watch football in a half empty new stadium or a half empty old one?

3. Milton Keynes or Wimbledon?

1. We are not a small city, we are a big city already. This isn't to do with size, it's more to do with the fact that we're lagging behind established cities as we can't even build a decent arena. If I want to see a decent gig, nine times out of ten I have to go to London or Cardiff. I'd much rather live in Bristol.

2. As I said, my post aimed to leave the football out of it. As a city point of view, the stadium is beneficial. But seeing as you are referring to our club, what would you prefer? A full but old stadium that ensures we run at a loss, or a (possibly) half-empty new stadium that puts the club on a secure financial footing for when SL does leave? Safety first in my opinion.

3. Completely and totally irrelevant to our situation. It's a joke that they moved miles away. We're moving half a mile away.

[RNRED]

I was interested by Councillor Caves concerns about transport links, maybe as a North Somerset councillor he will now be pushing very hard

for the opening of the Portishead Railway line and with that the Ashton station which should help to allay his concerns. Also it was worrying that the Three individuals

on the Against table didnt seem to realise that the revised plans include the area for the Bunny Cuddlers and Tree Huggers, You would have thought that they would have looked at the plans before attending last night? or is it just about Stopping the Stadium?

[cornellyreds]

It's only since I moved away from Bristol can I see how narrow minded, and backward thinking a lot of our councillors are.

I now live between Swansea and Cardiff and have been amazed how quickly both planning permissions and the buidling of both the Liberty and Cardiff City Stadia went through. Not only football related issues, roads, offices, hospitals seem to get passed quickly efficiently and without major debate. It is almost like the Welsh people know what they need to improve their surroundings and quietly get on and do it. I cannot imagine the debacle that is the Village Green farce happening in my area of the world.

Back to football and cast an eye on the table, both for points and for attendances. We now lag behind both Cardiff and Swansea, and the gap seems to be getting wider. When i moved to where I live now, Cardiff were playing in a delapilated ground infront of 6000 and Swansea were playing in an even worse hole, watched by 5000. We now are 10000 behind Cardiff's average gate and have the same gates as Swansea.

Cardiff has not been the shining example of how to run a club, I grant you, and I dont think SL would ever lead us the same way. Sure we lost 11 million last season, but if we dont move grounds soon, I believe we will lose similar amounts each year. And that cannot go on. Moving to a new ground with the extra fans that seems to bring - coupled with the non matchday revenue is VITAL to the sucess of this club. Without it, and with the debts as they are, we will struggle to stay still, let alone move up a level that we all so desperately want.

[madmax]

Firstly, the debate was Town Green v Stadium hence why all other topics like transport and the 2018 WC bid were brought up.

Secondly the area in question is very rarely used now with the exception of dog walkers. It used to be used 20 years ago and people do have evidence, but there is a timeline that could help the cause. I have lived in the area for ten years and there has never been an event arranged at the site in question. I have attended Ashton Vale Community events, but not at this site. The site is NOT used in the summer and I include picinics, swimming, dancing, horse riding in all this but with the exception of dog walkers again.

I recently spoke to a few members of the Ashton Vale heritage group and they are fighting tooth and nail to stop the stadium, that is all they are interested in, they are NIMBY's do and end all. I asked the question to say if TVG is passed, would they start doing more for the comminuty...answer...."if we can get it funded yes". They have no money, are being backed by the green party and Bedminsters WI so if a legal battle starts, I expect them to pull out, but they said they won't need to fight any battles if the TVG was passed, only if it was refused. If it's refused I would say that it's all over unless they get a sugar daddy.

One or two are friends of people I know and they only started the group to stop the stadium.

MM

[Fireman Sam]

It's all down to Long Ashton Parish Council not wanting to look across that way and see a Stadium in the distance

[TheBerkeleyBoy]

I went last night and it was interesting - but I agree that the "debate Ground v Green" was a farce as the Village green lot dont really have an argument, thats why they always went on about transport etc - I heard with interest on Radio Bristol that the Avon Wildlife guy ow has come down (reluctantly) in favour of the ground if a compromise can be found on wildlife issue's! Put up a bat box and jobs a good'un.

This will go to the high court whatever the council do

[M_Porter]

I was interested by Councillor Caves concerns about transport links, maybe as a North Somerset councillor he will now be pushing very hard

for the opening of the Portishead Railway line and with that the Ashton station which should help to allay his concerns. Also it was worrying that the Three individuals

on the Against table didnt seem to realise that the revised plans include the area for the Bunny Cuddlers and Tree Huggers, You would have thought that they would have looked at the plans before attending last night? or is it just about Stopping the Stadium?

Councillor Caves concerns as you put it are a farce, he says and i quote:

Councillor Charles Cave said he thought the stadium was in the wrong place.

The Long Ashton Parish Council member said he believed there were better options for the stadium.

"Does logic not dictate that if you're going to build a stadium... you build it near a major transport hub. We are not, in Ashton Vale, anywhere near a major transport hub."

Mr Cave added he was worried about increased traffic levels around any new stadium.

I live in Pill and i can assure you he lives the same sort of distance away from the new stadium site as i do ( different direction but same distance), so this "WE" nonsense is rubish,

He hates football, but i will bet my mortgage that if it was a tennis centre we were trying to build he would be our most vocal SUPPORTER !

He is worried about about increased traffic levels.........he lives half a mile up a dead end lane, not much traffic there i think.....

Of coarse this is all rubish as the OP pointed out this was supposed to be "is it a village green or not" but alas just like the rest of the proccess it allways comes back to the football stadium and the effects that might or might not have.

Mark

[BristolCityBabe]

Sorry, but think of all the wealth this could bring to Bristol, having the new stadium! How many people are going to visit Bristol for a village green?

[citybabe]

Firstly, the debate was Town Green v Stadium hence why all other topics like transport and the 2018 WC bid were brought up.

Secondly the area in question is very rarely used now with the exception of dog walkers. It used to be used 20 years ago and people do have evidence, but there is a timeline that could help the cause. I have lived in the area for ten years and there has never been an event arranged at the site in question. I have attended Ashton Vale Community events, but not at this site. The site is NOT used in the summer and I include picinics, swimming, dancing, horse riding in all this but with the exception of dog walkers again.

I recently spoke to a few members of the Ashton Vale heritage group and they are fighting tooth and nail to stop the stadium, that is all they are interested in, they are NIMBY's do and end all. I asked the question to say if TVG is passed, would they start doing more for the comminuty...answer...."if we can get it funded yes". They have no money, are being backed by the green party and Bedminsters WI so if a legal battle starts, I expect them to pull out, but they said they won't need to fight any battles if the TVG was passed, only if it was refused. If it's refused I would say that it's all over unless they get a sugar daddy.

One or two are friends of people I know and they only started the group to stop the stadium.

MM

One of the leading lights of the AVHG follows the Blue Few - he lives further away from the proposed stadium than I do and doesn't have a dog - says it all really - I've lived in Ashton Vale since 1986 and have been on the 'Village Green' twice in that time - the second time was the protest march!

[red colin]

I was interested by Councillor Caves concerns about transport links, maybe as a North Somerset councillor he will now be pushing very hard

for the opening of the Portishead Railway line and with that the Ashton station which should help to allay his concerns. Also it was worrying that the Three individuals

on the Against table didnt seem to realise that the revised plans include the area for the Bunny Cuddlers and Tree Huggers, You would have thought that they would have looked at the plans before attending last night? or is it just about Stopping the Stadium?

is it me or are transport problems really there..when the balloon fiesta is on for 3 or 4 days hundreds of thousands attend.. when the harbour fiesta is on hundreds of thosands attend. the portway leads straight to motorway , go up side of suspension bridge straight to motorway , go through centre to m32 . whats the problem, ah yes its football which happens for a couple of hours once or twice a fortnight...not whole weekends in height of summer when all of the north comes this way to our seasides which is when the above fiestas are on, its not a transport problem then eh. 20 thousand fans here and gone over 4 or 5 hours some how seems harder to deal with than hundreds of thousands over 3 or 4 day weekends.. is it me ???

[mcbcfc]

BCC have buggered up the road systems around Bristol it means there is no site that could easily be reached. Tonite's post there is a woman asked why it couldn't be built at temple meads? Has she tried travelling through that area at rush hour? Add another 25000 people the whole area will come to a complete stand still.

[red pride]

is it me or are transport problems really there..when the balloon fiesta is on for 3 or 4 days hundreds of thousands attend.. when the harbour fiesta is on hundreds of thosands attend. the portway leads straight to motorway , go up side of suspension bridge straight to motorway , go through centre to m32 . whats the problem, ah yes its football which happens for a couple of hours once or twice a fortnight...not whole weekends in height of summer when all of the north comes this way to our seasides which is when the above fiestas are on, its not a transport problem then eh. 20 thousand fans here and gone over 4 or 5 hours some how seems harder to deal with than hundreds of thousands over 3 or 4 day weekends.. is it me ???

Great post

[lanceloto]

is it me or are transport problems really there..when the balloon fiesta is on for 3 or 4 days hundreds of thousands attend.. when the harbour fiesta is on hundreds of thosands attend. the portway leads straight to motorway , go up side of suspension bridge straight to motorway , go through centre to m32 . whats the problem, ah yes its football which happens for a couple of hours once or twice a fortnight...not whole weekends in height of summer when all of the north comes this way to our seasides which is when the above fiestas are on, its not a transport problem then eh. 20 thousand fans here and gone over 4 or 5 hours some how seems harder to deal with than hundreds of thousands over 3 or 4 day weekends.. is it me ???

let's not forget that it is also very handy for the international airport, (I'd call that a major transport hub) all the cars that currently park in Long Ashton could be removed, if only the city council pulled it's finger out and opened the park and ride for football fans, 2£ each they would make a killin' . fans would much rather park their cars safely then risk the smashed windows you so often see. Why not bring in a fan bus that starts in clevedon through nailsea... etc...

What stood out of the debate for me was the stat on the average size of successful town greens . it's quite simple give them 10 acres, (that's essentially half an acre each) that's more then enough for the sort of recreation they claim to use it for.

[the frampton balti]

It seems that both winterbourne and frampton cotterell lost their respective village green applications for land which had been genuinely used for fetes parades and annual events for donkeys (much longer than twenty years) Now nothing against dog walkers specifically, but it seems that a handfull of them are holding the whole city to ransom and lets face it the wildlife argument falls a bit flat when combined with the village green for dog walkers argument!!!!! Besides the wetland area is an excellent component of the new scheme and seems to have put many a conservationist onside including ,seemingly, the fellow in the debate on monday. Should get the rspb involved with this! More space admittedly but the wetland centre in london is an inspiration.

If the ashton vale town green application is a success i will be astonished. Thats from a very reluctant supporter of the new stadium!(was very keen to stay at the gate but i have listened to the arguments)

[SUMMAT OUTTA NOWT]

I went last night and it was interesting - but I agree that the "debate Ground v Green" was a farce as the Village green lot dont really have an argument, thats why they always went on about transport etc - I heard with interest on Radio Bristol that the Avon Wildlife guy ow has come down (reluctantly) in favour of the ground if a compromise can be found on wildlife issue's! Put up a bat box and jobs a good'un.

This will go to the high court whatever the council do

Put up a bat box, Laugh What about the lesser striped Zimbabwean blower fish. Where do they go.