Town Green Compromise

[SJC]

I cant decide if the VG folk are being incredibly smart or incredibly dumb.

Whilst it makes perfect sense for the club to suggest it's hand is strong, it must surely be the case that if mediation talks do end then the club would either decide against an appeal and resign itself to defeat, or push through an appeal which would almost certainly succeed.

The Village Greeners therefore are either thoroughly confident that their evidence holds sway or they are biting their nose off to spite their face. For the sake of a sparcely used patch of wasteland they are essentially rejecting a series of benefits, some almost certainly financial. If someone came to me and, theoretically, said 'We want to build flats on South Street playing field, here's 10k', whilst in principle id rather that didnt happen, the only possible reason id say no would be if I ascertained that it was only through my agreement that those plans could progress, and the developers were very keen on the project with little to no viable alternative.

The affect from that is they are wagering against Lansdown's patience. Im no expert but legal fees, an appeal process plus the accompanying delay cannot come cheap. Therefore, if the price of paying off the VG's is ultimately cheaper than not doing so, it could be a case of furiously gulping down his pride for his own benefit.

With that in mind, and with absolutely no inside knowledge, to me that smells a great deal like the VG's 'playing hardball', and it is perhaps the case that the word 'Nimby' can be replaced with 'Opportunist'.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The inspector made a recommendation, not a decision. The council aren't bound by it and are in fact bound by a rather loose law that merely describes the minimum criteria for land to be considered for registration as a town green. The law does not require a specific process or mandate how the decision should be made, and there are other duties such as proportionality and fairness in the execution of public office.

If a compromise can be reached, excellent. If not, it is up to the council to make a decision and even then such a decision can be challenged through a judicial review and appealled right to the top of the legal system ultimately in either the Lords or the new Supreme Court. The terms of compromise offered can and will be a factor in both the decision and any subsequent appeal.

Ask yourself this: Is it reasonable, fair and proportional for the entirety of a 42 acre site to be registered as a town green with the backing of a handful of local residents when there is documentary evidence the whole of the site does not meet the criteria and an overwhelming local support for the alternative? Given that the law is so loose here I think the compromise is the best option for those seeking to register the site as a town green.

That's my understanding of it too. As you say, national law etc, can be appealed right up the legal system chain so it could drag on for quite some while yet I think.

[mark43]

[CotswoldRed]

Surely any compensation should be based on the effect the stadium will have on their house prices. I guess it's fair to say it will negatively affect those nearest, now I'm not sure what those houses are currently worth, but to be asking for £200,000 is surely making out they will be worth £0 afterwards, which is nonsense.

Compensation shouldn't come into it because they are not entitled to it. The same with any other development.

[Fireman Sam]

It is very simple

How do you talk to people who will not accept a Stadium there

They dont want it and they were hoping the Council would say no to Sainsburys

How can Brighton get a ground on a site that was designated AN AREA OF OUTSTANDING BEAUTY

They (Who ever they are, and you always get a handful of people who will not look to the future. Just their selfish thoughts.) do not want a Stadium at all!!!!

It was a Landfill Site, SL bought the site and the Council new what it was bought for!

How can you then say (After it had been sold FOR A STADIUM) we now want it a village green? IT HAS BEEN SOLD FOR GOD SAKE!

The Government need to come in and show common sense.

[CotswoldRed]

How can you then say (After it had been sold FOR A STADIUM) we now want it a village green? IT HAS BEEN SOLD FOR GOD SAKE!

Because the law is an ass.

[cidercity]

They would probally accept quarter of that each. Even if an offer of £100,000 per house hold was offered, surely this would benefit City finacnially in the long run?

As soon as any of these a$$ wipes get any money, i shall be sueing them for the stress they have put me through worrying that the stadium would not be going ahead.

[Monkeh]

the whole bright saga will get this farse to go in our faver as we can use this as a case study,

[Fireman Sam]

[Guest]

That's my understanding of it too. As you say, national law etc, can be appealed right up the legal system chain so it could drag on for quite some while yet I think.

The last high profile TVG case took 5 years to resolve :/

[BCAGFC]

This will be not be resolved any time soon, the TVG NIMBYs don't want a stadium full stop and will do 'anything' to stop the development.

They only entered the mediation talks to appease the council, they had no intention of compromising, however much cash was thrown their way, you could make it 500k - 1m, they won't budge.

So this just goes to prove that they are using the outdated and poorly drafted TVG legislation to block the stadium and that could backfire on them in court.

And no doubt they will have a series of backers who will pay their court costs (George Ferguson?- after all he will gain if we fail).

BCAGFC

[mark43]

Compensation shouldn't come into it because they are not entitled to it. The same with any other development.

I completely agree. I just mean that if there was compensation involved then this is a completely unrealistic figure anyway.

[Guest]

And no doubt they will have a series of backers who will pay their court costs (George Ferguson?- after all he will gain if we fail).

George is quoted as saying he's agnostic about the TVG plan, as a architect and developer himself I expect he knows it'd be a very big financial risk to gamble money on something we all seem to suspect is fabricated stories on the whole.

I don't see how GF would benifit in any way if the stadium wasn't built either?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The last high profile TVG case took 5 years to resolve :/

Who is paying the legal costs for this quaint UK loophole of the Village people is it the tax payers per chance?.

if by some miscarriage of UK justice the village people should win presumably either they or somebody will have to buy their village green from SL, after all he does own it, perhaps the club should investigate the possibility of claiming village green rights in the gardens of the village people just to show the stupidity of this bit of quaint UK madness. Also is'nt there also trespass laws that can be investigated, surely these people should have some form of permission to let their dogs shit on private property?????

[Nibor]

On the compensation front I wonder if something like this would be appropriate? We set aside some money in a fund. It can be used to compensate residents should they wish to sell their home and find its valuation has not followed at least the average for Bristol.

That kind of thing IMO isn't unreasonable because it removes one of the principle legitimate ways that residents can argue they might lose ouyt (though I do know home valuation isn't a factor in planning).

[BCAGFC]

I don't see how GF would benefit in any way if the stadium wasn't built either?

No Stadium = Keeps his football trade on a saturday

Stadium = loss of trade on a saturday

BCAGFC

[BCAGFC]

Who is paying the legal costs for this quaint UK loophole of the Village people is it the tax payers per chance?.

if by some miscarriage of UK justice the village people should win presumably either they or somebody will have to buy their village green from SL, after all he does own it, perhaps the club should investigate the possibility of claiming village green rights in the gardens of the village people just to show the stupidity of this bit of quaint UK madness. Also is'nt there also trespass laws that can be investigated, surely these people should have some form of permission to let their dogs shit on private property?????

I am afraid we have been paying their costs so far but I am pretty sure they can't claim anything towards their court costs when it all kicks off.

As for compensation for SL, he wouldn't get anything..... the TVG legislation has a massive loophole which means you can BASICALLY LAND GRAB another persons land for nothing.

BCAGFC

[SC_Red]

cant see it being resolved myself because the antis arent after a village green they just dont want a stadium.

it would be easy if they were honestly wanting a village green but when all they want to do is block the stadium there is no compromise position as far as they are concerned.

lets face it the club has offered them a huge managed wetlands site with a visitor centre and cafe with jobs for local people as part of the development and they dont want it. If it was a nice place to walk they were after then its odd that they've turned down exactly that.

I think any panel interviewing them will quickly see that they are completely unmoveable and just looking to cash in and/or block the stadium plan and chuck it out on those grounds

[BCFC_Dan]

George is quoted as saying he's agnostic about the TVG plan, as a architect and developer himself I expect he knows it'd be a very big financial risk to gamble money on something we all seem to suspect is fabricated stories on the whole.

I don't see how GF would benifit in any way if the stadium wasn't built either?

More than that, if the TVG goes through it will set a precedent whereby ANY development can be blocked by a dozen or so determined activists. No architect or developer can possibly be in favour of that, no matter what short term effect it may have on them.

[beaverface]

Just out of interest, if GF was the major financial backer behind the TVGer's, how much is this guy worth in comparison to SL? Appeals can be a very long expensive process and I don't think SL is ready to give in jst yet.

I know SL has made a very bold statement saying he'll continue to fight this for the rest of his life, with his family taking up the baton if should die and he's certainly got the cash to back himself up.

[Guest]

No Stadium = Keeps his football trade on a saturday

Stadium = loss of trade on a saturday

BCAGFC

Maybe its just me, but if the Stadium is built I'm not going to change my drinking habits. An extra 500 yards over the road just means I'll leave for the ground ten minutes earlier.

What about the 4 year development cycle.. builders like to eat and drink.

[CotswoldRed]

What about the 4 year development cycle.. builders like to eat and drink.

Maybe everyone is worried because builders don't like foreign overpriced Deli food?

[Guest]

Just out of interest, if GF was the major financial backer behind the TVGer's, how much is this guy worth in comparison to SL? Appeals can be a very long expensive process and I don't think SL is ready to give in jst yet.

I know SL has made a very bold statement saying he'll continue to fight this for the rest of his life, with his family taking up the baton if should die and he's certainly got the cash to back himself up.

I'm pretty sure I GF has no involvement in the TVG situation other than comments passed in the media to which he's said he doesn't have a view other than he sympathises with the residents not wanting a stadium behind them.

[Guest]

Maybe everyone is worried because builders don't like foreign overpriced Deli food?

That's probably why Fishminster was for the plans!

North Street will be aright. I notice nobody is crying about the coop opening by the Hen & Chicken.

[beaverface]

I'm pretty sure I GF has no involvement in the TVG situation other than comments passed in the media to which he's said he doesn't have a view other than he sympathises with the residents not wanting a stadium behind them.

So in that case, where would the residents get the money for a lengthy, prolonged and expensive appeal which SL is more than prepared to go through if necessary?

[CotswoldRed]

So in that case, where would the residents get the money for a lengthy, prolonged and expensive appeal which SL is more than prepared to go through if necessary?

Good point.

I think SL might be ready to call their bluff if this goes on much longer.

[Guest]

So in that case, where would the residents get the money for a lengthy, prolonged and expensive appeal which SL is more than prepared to go through if necessary?

I would imagine the tax payer would foot the bill - BUT and its the big BUT, if they lost then they are liable for all costs both for themselves and the landowners. Don't know if you can get legal aid for TVG?

[beaverface]

I would imagine the tax payer would foot the bill - BUT and its the big BUT, if they lost then they are liable for all costs both for themselves and the landowners. Don't know if you can get legal aid for TVG?

Yes, thats the point I'm trying to get to. If the TVG supporters lost the appeal, whose backing them to pay for the bill? I'm pretty certain SL can cover his costs(although it wouldn't be nice), but potentially it could bankrupt the home owners/TVGers?

[Blagdon red]

I would imagine the tax payer would foot the bill - BUT and its the big BUT, if they lost then they are liable for all costs both for themselves and the landowners. Don't know if you can get legal aid for TVG?

I don't believe the taxpayer would. I think it is at the appeal stage that they (or a backer) would for the first time have to start paying significant amounts out of their own pockets and, as you say, if they subsequently lost they would, I believe, be liable for the landowners' costs as well. These will clearly be considerations they will need to take into account over the coming days.

[del ete]

I very much doubt any "sugar daddies" would be prepared to risk the finacial burden of a defeat here. There is nothing that important at stake for people like red trousers so id be very suprised if they got ny backing. I have a feeling they are not willing to compromise as they feel the council will back them, although I have a strong feeling the council will throw it out as the disgrace it is. When push comes to shove there is no way they will gamble any of their own money on this, (although that have been happy to waste the taxpayers for their own selfish gain).