Luke Modric

[Mr Popodopolous]

I would accept that Espanyol are a mid table side, but Atletico Madrid and Sevilla are both sides that have regularly finished in the top 6 in Spanish football in recent years, whereas Middlesbrough and Fulham would quite clearly get nowhere near that in the Prem. Take away Barca and Madrid from La Liga and I genuinely believe it is an average league.

Athletico Madrid finished 7th this year and have been a bit wobbly mostly since they returned to La Liga in the early part of this decade. Having said that, they are horribly, horribly mismanaged and have been for some while. As for La liga in general, I would suggest that in a way Barca and Real are a tad fortunate as well as the massive gulf in TV revenue, in that Valencia are debt ridden for example and Athletico as I said terribly run- finishing 7th on the 3rd biggest turnover in Spain is shittily bad.

As for average, not entirely sure- Valencia gave Man Utd a run for their money home and away, as well as having some excellent players notably Mata. Athletico have Aguero and Forlan two very good strikers but a crap defence.Sold Simao- a good attacking player last summer- for little sensible reason too.Lastly, one of the highest standard, most technical games I've seen this season has been in La Liga- not involving Real, but Barca 3 v Villareal 1. Really enjoyable stuff. Not sure about their lower midtable sides though, of the 3 Serie A perhaps has most depth in this regard.

[tinman-is-god]

Athletico Madrid finished 7th this year and have been a bit wobbly mostly since they returned to La Liga in the early part of this decade. Having said that, they are horribly, horribly mismanaged and have been for some while. As for La liga in general, I would suggest that in a way Barca and Real are a tad fortunate as well as the massive gulf in TV revenue, in that Valencia are debt ridden for example and Athletico as I said terribly run- finishing 7th on the 3rd biggest turnover in Spain is shittily bad.

As for average, not entirely sure- Valencia gave Man Utd a run for their money home and away, as well as having some excellent players notably Mata. Athletico have Aguero and Forlan two very good strikers but a crap defence.Sold Simao- a good attacking player last summer- for little sensible reason too.Lastly, one of the highest standard, most technical games I've seen this season has been in La Liga- not involving Real, but Barca 3 v Villareal 1. Really enjoyable stuff. Not sure about their lower midtable sides though, of the 3 Serie A perhaps has most depth in this regard.

When you look at Athletico's strikeforce it seems mad that they aren't better than they are. They have a couple of decent central midfielders too, so should be achieving more, as you say. Valencia look a little bit bereft of confidence on the European stage having lost both Silva and Villa last summer, the two men that scored and created the vast majority of their goals. Mata looks like he could be the next big Spanish star, which means he will be at Barca or Real soon.

It's not the Spanish clubs' fault that the duopoly totally dominate but they do struggle as a result. I thought Valencia were pretty average in the champions league, and United winning 1-0 there wasn't particularly referential, whereas 4/5 years it would have been classed as a fantastic win. Serie A is struggling big time at the moment, so I am surprised at your contention that they have strength in depth - barring Inter's Mourinho-inspired treble, what have Italian sides achieved in the last five years?

[Mr Popodopolous]

When you look at Athletico's strikeforce it seems mad that they aren't better than they are. They have a couple of decent central midfielders too, so should be achieving more, as you say. Valencia look a little bit bereft of confidence on the European stage having lost both Silva and Villa last summer, the two men that scored and created the vast majority of their goals. Mata looks like he could be the next big Spanish star, which means he will be at Barca or Real soon.

It's not the Spanish clubs' fault that the duopoly totally dominate but they do struggle as a result. I thought Valencia were pretty average in the champions league, and United winning 1-0 there wasn't particularly referential, whereas 4/5 years it would have been classed as a fantastic win. Serie A is struggling big time at the moment, so I am surprised at your contention that they have strength in depth - barring Inter's Mourinho-inspired treble, what have Italian sides achieved in the last five years?

Maybe I'm just judging on names in the case of Serie A- but a League where Juventus one of the at least 2nd tier grand names of the European game come 7th (though they are surely another big club being mismanaged given their budget, potential, prestige etc), Fiorentina who while not in that calibre of course are at least a name most might recognise (they were bad ref away from knocking Bayern out 2 seasons ago), Sampdoria finishing 4th last year and despite losing only 2 key players and a coach, going from that to the drop. Maybe not more than PL, but certainly than La Liga midtable and depth wise- ignoring the top 4, to maybe top 6.