Play Off Team

[Murraysrightplum]

How good is the current starting 11 compared to the one beaten by Hull?

Basso Vs James: Close one. Basso made the more flamboyant shot stopping saves but I think James is maybe a more solid keeper. DRAW

Orr Vs Ribeiro/Edwards. both youngsters have potential to be better footballers but Orr had a winning mentality and was a strong RB for us. ORR WINS

Carey Vs Wilson (or Old Carey). Again Wilson has potential to be a good player but clearly a young Louis is better than him or his older self. YOUNG CAREY WINS

Fontaine Vs Fontaine. Not much difference between his form now and then. Good player. DRAW

Young McAllister Vs Older McAllister. Has his critics but I still think he can do a good job at this level. Form has never really changed since he arrived. DRAW (just!)

Noble Vs Adomah. Slightly unfair as Noble wasn't really a winger and had excellent technique, but ALBERT WINS

Elliott Vs slightly older Elliott. Marv had an excellent season in the playoff season and has struggled a bit to get back to where he was. Signs of being back to best during last season and probably gets a lot more goals now than he did then. DRAW

Carle Vs Kilkenny. Mr Nick Marmite Carle, either the saviour or the scapegoat, who knows? Either way I'd have KILKENNY

McIndoe Vs Woolford/JCR. McIndoe was a good player for us back than. Never set the world alight but a good solid pro. McINDOE WINS

Adebola Vs Stead/Pitman. Adebola did a job for us but I'd take STEAD/PITMAN

Trundle Vs Maynard. Gifted footballer but Trundle never did it consistently enough. MAYNARD WINS

Overall 3 from the play off team, 4 draws, and 4 from the current squad. Make of that what you will.

[InCider]

For me, we actually have a stronger squad now in terms of quality of players. However, the play-off final team seemed to have much more self belief and played better as a unit. I think all promoted sides generally start off reasonably well in the Championship, as they're still on a high from the previous season. I think once this team goes on a good run (which we saw a couple of times towards the end of last season), then we could see the team challenging for the play-offs. We're a couple of defenders short of a squad capable of this IMO.

[Murraysrightplum]

For me, we actually have a stronger squad now in terms of quality of players. However, the play-off final team seemed to have much more self belief and played better as a unit. I think all promoted sides generally start off reasonably well in the Championship, as they're still on a high from the previous season. I think once this team goes on a good run (which we saw a couple of times towards the end of last season), then we could see the team challenging for the play-offs. We're a couple of defenders short of a squad capable of this IMO.

Lacking self belief? Maybe the players have started reading this forum

[Ron]

Of those mentioned I'd have James; Orr, 2008 Carey, 2011 Fontaine, 2011 McAllister; Adomah, 2011 Elliott, Kilkenny, McIndoe; Stead, Maynard.

3 of the 2007/8 squad for me.

[Riaz]

Of those mentioned I'd have James; Orr, 2008 Carey, 2011 Fontaine, 2011 McAllister; Adomah, 2011 Elliott, Kilkenny, McIndoe; Stead, Maynard.

3 of the 2007/8 squad for me.

Was about to agree with you until I saw the 2011 McAllister and 2011 Elliott? a mistake surely?

McAllister was pretty decent in 2008 - ten times the player he is now! Marv was also had his best season then!

[InCider]

Lacking self belief? Maybe the players have started reading this forum

Probably! I don't think the current team lacks belief anymore than we have for the previous season or 2. It's just that the play-off reaching team seemed much more confident, probably down to winning loads the previous season. I think the Copout saga also knocked morale and it took the players a while to recover. Hopefully a good start this year will give us a good base to build on.

[Ron]

Was about to agree with you until I saw the 2011 McAllister and 2011 Elliott? a mistake surely?

McAllister was pretty decent in 2008 - ten times the player he is now! Marv was also had his best season then!

No mistake, I never rated McAllister as a defender during the play-off season, was always the weak link in our back line IMO. However, he's played his best football since we got promoted within the last 12 months, even with giving away a ridiculous penalty the first time I saw him last season.

Elliott was hugely overrated by everyone when he arrived because we hadn't seen a decent tough-tackling midfielder for a while. He's improved his game going forward and in the way Millen has let him roam more than he's used to he's a very assured box to box player now.

[Riaz]

No mistake, I never rated McAllister as a defender during the play-off season, was always the weak link in our back line IMO. However, he's played his best football since we got promoted within the last 12 months, even with giving away a ridiculous penalty the first time I saw him last season.

Elliott was hugely overrated by everyone when he arrived because we hadn't seen a decent tough-tackling midfielder for a while. He's improved his game going forward and in the way Millen has let him roam more than he's used to he's a very assured box to box player now.

I respect the fact its your opinion, but what you've just written is absolute rubbish!

McAllister has been awful for the last few seasons - in 2008, he could actually pass to a team-mate - infact, his passing was very good.

And Marvin Elliott was everywhere in his first season for us - he has'nt got near to that season since.

[Ron]

I respect the fact its your opinion, but what you've just written is absolute rubbish!

McAllister has been awful for the last few seasons - in 2008, he could actually pass to a team-mate - infact, his passing was very good.

And Marvin Elliott was everywhere in his first season for us - he has'nt got near to that season since.

McAllister had the luxury of a strong, wide left winger during his first season at this level, something he has rarely seen since. Regardless, his primary job is to defend, something he has only done competently during the past season.

Elliott was a good player for us when he first joined, and he still is. He has the ability he did then with goals to boot, go figure.

[Monkeh]

to be fair Riaz I can see where ron is coming from,

Elliot and McAllister Feb - may 2011 put in some of the best performances they ever have for city,

Leading up to that how ever nether (as with much of the team) were much cop

Out of the two sides 2008 to now

GK James

LB McAllsiter

CB Carey 2008 Solid

CB Fontaine

RB Orr

LM McIndoe

CM Elliot

CM Noble (not seen enough of Kilkenny)

CF Maynard

CF Stead

for me

[Calculus]

Basso Vs James: Close one. Basso made the more flamboyant shot stopping saves but I think James is maybe a more solid keeper. DRAW

DRAW? Crikey - I guess football really is a game of opinions, eh? Basso isn't fit to lace up Jamo's boots IMO.

[Ron]

When trying to compare keepers over the last five years, it transpired that in 2007/8 Basso's saves/goals ratio was significantly higher than DJ's last season, which itself was similarly better than Gerken's.

[Calculus]

When trying to compare keepers over the last five years, it transpired that in 2007/8 Basso's saves/goals ratio was significantly higher than DJ's last season, which itself was similarly better than Gerken's.

... and 67% of all statistics are made up on the spot ...

[Ron]

... and 67% of all statistics are made up on the spot ...

The saves stats are all freely available from espn.com if you want to check your facts before calling me a liar.

[Calculus]

The saves stats are all freely available from espn.com if you want to check your facts before calling me a liar.

Oh dear! Stats like this might be freely available but they're still gibberish. David James has made over 500 appearances in the Prem, kept a record number of clean sheets and has been capped for his country more than 50 times. Basso, much as I like him, hasn't achieved anything significant and last year wasn't even judged to be good enough to sit on Wolves bench in the Prem.

Well do I remember the days when Prozone stats were the reason that LJ was our best midfielder. Going back to the dark days of Pulis we used to get talk of 'we put in 40 crosses today'. All guff, of course. Stats need to have context, solid definition and a reliable basis for comparison.

Non thinking belief in any published tripe isn't a substiture for a reasonable debate. And let me apologise in advance for the offence you're obviously going to take from this.

[Ron]

Oh dear! Stats like this might be freely available but they're still gibberish. David James has made over 500 appearances in the Prem, kept a record number of clean sheets and has been capped for his country more than 50 times. Basso, much as I like him, hasn't achieved anything significant and last year wasn't even judged to be good enough to sit on Wolves bench in the Prem.

Well do I remember the days when Prozone stats were the reason that LJ was our best midfielder. Going back to the dark days of Pulis we used to get talk of 'we put in 40 crosses today'. All guff, of course. Stats need to have context, solid definition and a reliable basis for comparison.

Non thinking belief in any published tripe isn't a substiture for a reasonable debate. And let me apologise in advance for the offence you're obviously going to take from this.

Pro-zone take a number of statistics into account. The simple fact is, goalkeepers are there to make saves and command their area - I would personally say both James & Basso had a very strong command of theirs - and the stats show that Basso made move saves percentage wise. Stats aside, I think they're both on a fairly level par in terms of quality, however.

I'm not offended, you accusation was just - wrong. That's all there was to it.

[The Batman]

The saves stats are all freely available from espn.com if you want to check your facts before calling me a liar.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

- Homer Simpson

[bs3]

I think the main difference is the Managers. Although GJ was no tactical genius he was a leader and did have the persona to lead his team and the fans. His personality was enough to inspire at times the players and the fans.

I fail to see what KM qualities are !

[Ron]

Jesus christ - storm in a teacup. I provided some statistical information regarding how many saves our respective goalkeepers have made to add to the debate, not end it. At no point did I suggest or state that the stats were the defining factor in their ability.

Maybe that should be added to all stat postings in the same vain as 'imo' to save time from the hard of reading putting words into others' keyboards?

[Andy082005]

Oh dear! Stats like this might be freely available but they're still gibberish. David James has made over 500 appearances in the Prem, kept a record number of clean sheets and has been capped for his country more than 50 times. Basso, much as I like him, hasn't achieved anything significant and last year wasn't even judged to be good enough to sit on Wolves bench in the Prem.

Well do I remember the days when Prozone stats were the reason that LJ was our best midfielder. Going back to the dark days of Pulis we used to get talk of 'we put in 40 crosses today'. All guff, of course. Stats need to have context, solid definition and a reliable basis for comparison.

Non thinking belief in any published tripe isn't a substiture for a reasonable debate. And let me apologise in advance for the offence you're obviously going to take from this.

Absolutely spot on. How people can compare these two as equals is beyond me. Basso will be remembered for a long time here....probally more so then James. However if your really honest with yourself, you'll admit it was for what a great character he was and the "always believe" hype.

He was a good keeper but not fit to lace Jamos boots. Basso played for City in what was 2 of the best, most enjoyable seasons in a generation. That is why people will always remember him.

[redhead]

bring back david noble

[The Batman]

to add to my earlier comment.

what is important to consider is how the team plays rather than individual players.

Look at Real Madrid once Makele left. They still had Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo etc, awesome players, but they didn't win anything because they could not defend. Also Inter Milan won the Champions League by beating Barcelona in the semis. How many Inter players would get into the Barca team?? Cambiasso is the only one i can think of.

How the team gels together is much more important.

When we got to the play off final. we had a better team, not necessarily better players than the current squad.

[Bris Red]

It was a whole culmination of things that made 07/08 such a great a season. The fact that the players staff and fans were still riding on the crest of a wave that was promotion the year before was IMO the big reason. Momentum and confidence in football are MASSSIVE things, things that i think people especially on here overlook massively. Anyone that has played football or infact sport at any level will tell you this, when you have confidence you do things you simply wouldn't have been able to pull off othewise. Players like Mccalister for example were at there peak confidence wise feeling like they could do no wrong, he was still the same Mccalister that we have today but back then he had belief.. There were no moans or groans around the ground, everyone adored GJ and that passed down to the team.. We were completly united as a club.