Disappointed

[Ron]

I am as disappointed by that scoreline and those goals as anyone. The third goal going in and the manner of it hurt. The mistakes and moreover Fontaine and James' performances were painful to watch.

That aside, we were by no means terrible today or some of the other garbage I've heard in the stands/on Twentyman. We didn't look like the finished article but we made a number of chances. More chances, I should add, than Ipswich. The difference between the sides today was individual mistakes:

1-0: Long, hopeful punt up field, Spence and Fontaine both let Chopra get the run on them, James decides to go walkabout.

2-0: Skuse loses the ball 50 yards from goal. 1 pass later and Fontaine is nowhere near his man, backs off for 30 yards with no intent of a tackle, James should have done better with the save.

3-0: James.

Their only other chance of note, they hit the post when again Fontaine gets done all too easily. Our supposedly 'weaker' players played well today - McAllister had a stormer against JET, Nyatanga was solid. Fontaine and Spence, the two you wouldn't worry about, were caught for the goals. Add in James who needs dropping purely for an atrocious show today.

Millen has to make changes, but on today at least it's difficult to lay any direct blame for the goals - stupid individual errors, all 3. All easily avoidable, and as a defensive unit over 90 minutes we were fine. Going forward we looked rusty and like many have said Maynard was out of sorts. Disinterested? No, he came as close to scoring as anyone.

If I were Millen, I'd take a leaf out of Ipswich's book. Woolford (who again looked good when he came on) in for JCR, Kilkenny in for Maynard, Carey for Fontaine and Gerken for James. Ipswich's 4-5-1 left them hard to break down, with a hard working Chopra up front. With 4-5-1 we could get wide without leaving ourselves open, and Kilkenny buzzing around the opposition back line would create openings in itself.

[Alex_BCFC]

That aside, we were by no means terrible today or some of the other garbage I've heard in the stands/on Twentyman. We didn't look like the finished article but we made a number of chances. More chances, I should add, than Ipswich. The difference between the sides today was individual mistakes:

Over the next week or so we will see a lot of over the top crap about how we are the worst team ever etc yet I agree with this.

Take away the individual mistakes and it was level game where we had more shots and corners.

Basically we need to go out and buy a decent CB to replace Caulker and a good LB. Get those in and we will be OK. If not it will be a tough season.

[Ron]

Basically we need to go out and buy a decent CB to replace Caulker and a good LB. Get those in and we will be OK. If not it will be a tough season.

Macca was arguably the pick of the bunch in defence. Centre-back I agree, I don't think Carey would have given away 2 goals like Fonts did today though.

[chinapig]

The same players make the same mistakes over and over again and remain near automatic choices. Why on earth would anybody expect anything to change? As Keith said after Watford at home last season, there is no point playing well if you keep giving away bad goals. Though how he thought we played well in that game still baffles me it is an obvious point. No doubt there will be changes for the next game but with what we have in defence it is simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Alex_BCFC]

Macca was arguably the pick of the bunch in defence. Centre-back I agree, I don't think Carey would have given away 2 goals like Fonts did today though.

He did OK but his distrubition is shambolic. So many times where he dinks it to the keeper. Time for a change there.

Thought Spence was only one who did well at the back all game.

[Ron]

The same players make the same mistakes over and over again and remain near automatic choices. Why on earth would anybody expect anything to change? As Keith said after Watford at home last season, there is no point playing well if you keep giving away bad goals. Though how he thought we played well in that game still baffles me it is an obvious point. No doubt there will be changes for the next game but with what we have in defence it is simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The same players? Fontaine is a decent Championship defender. Thinking of the budget, someone said on Rad Briz suggested cashing in on Nicky and getting in a centre-half and a couple more. I'm slowly warming to that.

He did OK but his distrubition is shambolic. So many times where he dinks it to the keeper. Time for a change there.

He did, but I'm sure you saw JCR's positioning all game, difficult to blame the lad as he's the most right-footed player on the pitch, but led to an incredibly predictable game from him every time we had the ball. Doesn't offer itself to a good passing game.

[megansdad]

Personally thought Spence had a good game and Maynard looked far from disinterested as some on Radio Bristol suggested - agree a draw would have been a better reflection of the game, absent 3 schoolboy errors.. Thought Macca was decent defensivley but as with Nayatanga tended to waste the ball going forward with too many overhit/aimless punts.

[chinapig]

Over the next week or so we will see a lot of over the top crap about how we are the worst team ever etc yet I agree with this.

Take away the individual mistakes and it was level game where we had more shots and corners.

Basically we need to go out and buy a decent CB to replace Caulker and a good LB. Get those in and we will be OK. If not it will be a tough season.

Exactly so but what often happens is the manager comes out with "We'll be fine if we can cut out the individual mistakes", continues to pick the players who make them, who continue to make them, nothing changes, the manager repeats the mantra, the same players are picked and around we go again. There comes a point when you have to admit the players concerned simply aren't capable and set about replacing them. Yet we have signed no central defender (yet) and Wilson is exilled to the stands. I thought the process of revamping the defence started with moving McCombe on but here we are with the usual suspects doing the usual things.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Personally thought Spence had a good game and Maynard looked far from disinterested as some on Radio Bristol suggested - agree a draw would have been a better reflection of the game, absent 3 schoolboy errors.. Thought Macca was decent defensivley but as with Nayatanga tended to waste the ball going forward with too many overhit/aimless punts.

Surely though with such a highly respected coach as ours, this particular problem should not happen, it's simple tell him not to do it, if he does drop him until he learns, even I could coach that out of a player.

[Ron]

Surely though with such a highly respected coach as ours, this particular problem should not happen, it's simple tell him not to do it, if he does drop him until he learns, even I could coach that out of a player.

For who? Fontaine is a far better ball playing defender but defensively Nyatanga was twice the player of him today.

Exactly so but what often happens is the manager comes out with "We'll be fine if we can cut out the individual mistakes", continues to pick the players who make them, who continue to make them, nothing changes, the manager repeats the mantra, the same players are picked and around we go again. There comes a point when you have to admit the players concerned simply aren't capable and set about replacing them. Yet we have signed no central defender (yet) and Wilson is exilled to the stands. I thought the process of revamping the defence started with moving McCombe on but here we are with the usual suspects doing the usual things.

Cash in on NM and sort out the back-line? Maybe. The issue was with a decent defender though. Fontaine's a good player.

[NOTR]

True Ipswich were no better than us apart from the school boy errors,but what will happen when we play the better teams who will create chances with out our help,very worrying.

[reddoc]

The same players? Fontaine is a decent Championship defender. Thinking of the budget, someone said on Rad Briz suggested cashing in on Nicky and getting in a centre-half and a couple more. I'm slowly warming to that.

He did, but I'm sure you saw JCR's positioning all game, difficult to blame the lad as he's the most right-footed player on the pitch, but led to an incredibly predictable game from him every time we had the ball. Doesn't offer itself to a good passing game.

Yep that's fair but who picks him in that position over and over and obviously fails to see this? Deja vu all over again as someone once said.

[Red Exile]

I know that many, many people don't want to face it but the bottom line is...Millen is a loser.

Listen to the guy. Nothing will change with him in charge. Shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. He's had a whole summer to get his men in and others out or to inspire the troops he has...he's not up to it.

On Friday he's in the paper building a team for a promotion challenge. On Saturday morning his hands are tied as he has no money. Saturday afternoon he sends out a team devoid of his summer signings which turns in a limp performance and ships 3 goals in front of a small opening day crowd. Saturday evening and he's on the radio saying he was happy with the defending. He talks rubbish.

Goodness knows why anyone has faith in him. He'll go - sooner or later. And if later it'll be the worse for Bristol City.

I thank my lucky stars that I didn't renew the family STs.

Disappointed this evening but hundreds of pounds better off.

[112 Days]

Red Exile - I agree with every word. My decision to play on a saturday again, rather than sundays, now looks inspired!

It's easy to play against us, stop albert getting the ball and you stop city. Simple as that. Disappointing.

[reddoc]

I know that many, many people don't want to face it but the bottom line is...Millen is a loser.

Listen to the guy. Nothing will change with him in charge. Shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. He's had a whole summer to get his men in and others out or to inspire the troops he has...he's not up to it.

On Friday he's in the paper building a team for a promotion challenge. On Saturday morning his hands are tied as he has no money. Saturday afternoon he sends out a team devoid of his summer signings which turns in a limp performance and ships 3 goals in front of a small opening day crowd. Saturday evening and he's on the radio saying he was happy with the defending. He talks rubbish.

Goodness knows why anyone has faith in him. He'll go - sooner or later. And if later it'll be the worse for Bristol City.

I thank my lucky stars that I didn't renew the family STs.

Disappointed this evening but hundreds of pounds better off.

Completely agree other than the last line unfortunately.

[Ron]

On Friday he's in the paper building a team for a promotion challenge. On Saturday morning his hands are tied as he has no money. Saturday afternoon he sends out a team devoid of his summer signings which turns in a limp performance and ships 3 goals in front of a small opening day crowd. Saturday evening and he's on the radio saying he was happy with the defending. He talks rubbish.

Let's go through this fairytale weekend.

Friday - Quote me? Everyone in this division is aiming for the top. I interviewed Millen last Saturday and he said he was looking for an improvement over 46 games. So there goes your first fallacy.

Saturday morning - How's that not true?

Saturday afternoon - Limp is a poor word to use, we were not second best. 3 individual errors were the difference, that's it.

Saturday evening - The defending as a unit was better than last season by some way, at no point did we look all at sea at the back as I've seen many times.

[Red Exile]

Let's go through this fairytale weekend.

Friday - Quote me? Everyone in this division is aiming for the top. I interviewed Millen last Saturday and he said he was looking for an improvement over 46 games. So there goes your first fallacy.

Saturday morning - How's that not true?

Saturday afternoon - Limp is a poor word to use, we were not second best. 3 individual errors were the difference, that's it.

Saturday evening - The defending as a unit was better than last season by some way, at no point did we look all at sea at the back as I've seen many times.

Friday - quote from the Post:

"he insists promotion to the Premier League is a viable proposition. He said: "It is a realistic target. It one that is very difficult because of the quality of this league,but it is one we have to strive to achieve."

...dream on guys if you think Millen is the answer.

[chinapig]

For who? Fontaine is a far better ball playing defender but defensively Nyatanga was twice the player of him today.

Cash in on NM and sort out the back-line? Maybe. The issue was with a decent defender though. Fontaine's a good player.

So, others have said, are Carey and Nyatanga yet all of our central defenders have been guilty of far too many errors for far too long, stretching back to the point we started conceding last minute goals. At what point do players' reputations bear some relation to what actually happens on the pitch? Or is nobody responsible for our poor defending? As to Fontaine, a player who looked like he was destined for great things 4 years ago who at best has failed to progress and at worst has gone backwards. One of too many of our players who have been at the club for too long and are too comfortable with the status quo imo.

[Ron]

Friday - quote from the Post:

"he insists promotion to the Premier League is a viable proposition. He said: "It is a realistic target. It one that is very difficult because of the quality of this league,but it is one we have to strive to achieve."

...dream on guys if you think Millen is the answer.

That's the aim, of course. 18 teams I imagine will fancy themselves, 6 can be right. Nothing was ever decided in August, least on the first day of the season.

"Well, I wanna improve on last year, that's always the aim." - KM to me, last Saturday.

[Matty-H]

Completely agree that Millen will take us backward. Let's not pretend this is his first season. We can't keep blaming Coppell, GJ, Hunt and injuries.

Being as we've been told we have no money to shore up the defence, then it's virtually nailed on that he'll be sacked some time this season, because this team is going nowhere but down

[foghornred]

We are all disappointed but some of the comments are way off the mark we did not play that badly just read the match facts

CITY IPSWICH

Possession 49% 51%

Shots on Target 5 4

Shots off target 6 4

Corners 12 3

Their goalkeeper made a couple of very good saves I can not remember David James making one,with a better rub of the green and cutting out the silly errors its a game that we could have won,although I would rather have a lucky manager than a good one.

[Ron]

Completely agree that Millen will take us backward. Let's not pretend this is his first season. We can't keep blaming Coppell, GJ, Hunt and injuries.

Being as we've been told we have no money to shore up the defence, then it's virtually nailed on that he'll be sacked some time this season, because this team is going nowhere but down

I wonder if you bothered reading anything in this thread whatsoever.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

We are all disappointed but some of the comments are way off the mark we did not play that badly just read the match facts

CITY IPSWICH

Possession 49% 51%

Shots on Target 5 4

Shots off target 6 4

Corners 12 3

Their goalkeeper made a couple of very good saves I can not remember David James making one,with a better rub of the green and cutting out the silly errors its a game that we could have won,although I would rather have a lucky manager than a good one.

Unfortunately the statistics don't actually mention, poor team selection, playing players out of position, poor tactics, no plan B, hoof ball.

[chinapig]

True Ipswich were no better than us apart from the school boy errors,but what will happen when we play the better teams who will create chances with out our help,very worrying.

More or less the case for the defence so to speak and certainly Keith's view it seems but those kinds of errors are not a one off but happen over and over again; what is the point of matching he opposition if you repeatedly throw away goals and points? Yet the prevailing response is, nothing to worry about they are only individual errors. If the strikers repeatedly missed sitters would they get he same tolerance I wonder and would Keith be as complacent about it?

[Matty-H]

I wonder if you bothered reading anything in this thread whatsoever.

If you mean your posts, then no. I generally skim over them when I see you are the author

[Ron]

Unfortunately the statistics don't actually mention, poor team selection, playing players out of position, poor tactics, no plan B, hoof ball.

Unfortunately your view doesn't mention that we actually had the better of the game? Stupid errors aside isn't that rather important for you?

If you mean your posts, then no. I generally skim over them when I see you are the author

Fair point. Why would you, it doesn't sit with your blinkered negative view.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Unfortunately your view doesn't mention that we actually had the better of the game? Stupid errors aside isn't that rather important for you?

Not really for once I agree with RR De Ja Vu, same old, same old. if the quality of defenders, the quality of team selection and the quality of coaching does not improve, your stats will become an almost weekly occurrence.

[Ron]

Not really for once I agree with RR De Ja Vu, same old, same old. if the quality of defenders, the quality of team selection and the quality of coaching does not improve, your stats will become an almost weekly occurrence.

The defending was fine bar 3 errors from 2 individuals, both of whom are good Championship players. We had the better of the game, it wouldn't happen 'as a weekly occurrence' if your belief about our defence/team selection were accurate.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The defending was fine bar 3 errors from 2 individuals, both of whom are good Championship players. We had the better of the game, it wouldn't happen 'as a weekly occurrence' if your belief about our defence/team selection were accurate.

The real problem is that you already consider todays result as irrelevant and presumably the next 2 league games against Cardiff and Leicester, because they are 3 of the better teams in this division.

[Ron]

The real problem is that you already consider todays result as irrelevant and presumably the next 2 league games against Cardiff and Leicester, because they are 3 of the better teams in this division.

Of course it's not irrelevant, you're ignoring my points and moving the goalposts. We will do well to get good results at Cardiff and Leicester, as will we had we won 8-0 today.