Welcome To The Jungle Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I am a big fan of fan owned football clubs. And perhaps, not now, but when SL has had enough we try to move for a 50+1 model. The 50+1 model means that the fans (must be club members, season ticket holders etc) own 51% of the club. This means that they have control over the clubs running's. The other 49% is opened up to investors for financial backing. This means that no one has complete control and has a track record of increasing attendances big time. The Bundesliga (Germann top tier) only has 2 non-fan owned clubs, and have the highest average attendances in Europe, they also have a great fiances, meaning that POTD at Bayern Munich can be as little as £11. And kids are always half price. Our ST range from 3-5ish hundred pounds. Well a Season ticket at Bayern costs less than that, even with the annual membership fee of 50 euros. And when SL does go, we wont get a Liverpool scenario of all talk no cash. No Glazer family with a club built on debt. Just honest fans doing an honest business. Another example is Brentford of League 1. I know they're below us but 2 adults for less than a tenner for their next game. Its the only fan run FL club. Just a shout but never seen it suggested on this board and could be the next step for BCFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Great in theory but the fans would never be able to raise enough money, I would estimate the club being worth between £30m and £50m, not a chance imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I am a big fan of fan owned football clubs. And perhaps, not now, but when SL has had enough we try to move for a 50+1 model. The 50+1 model means that the fans (must be club members, season ticket holders etc) own 51% of the club. This means that they have control over the clubs running's. The other 49% is opened up to investors for financial backing. This means that no one has complete control and has a track record of increasing attendances big time. The Bundesliga (Germann top tier) only has 2 non-fan owned clubs, and have the highest average attendances in Europe, they also have a great fiances, meaning that POTD at Bayern Munich can be as little as £11. And kids are always half price. Our ST range from 3-5ish hundred pounds. Well a Season ticket at Bayern costs less than that, even with the annual membership fee of 50 euros. And when SL does go, we wont get a Liverpool scenario of all talk no cash. No Glazer family with a club built on debt. Just honest fans doing an honest business. Another example is Brentford of League 1. I know they're below us but 2 adults for less than a tenner for their next game. Its the only fan run FL club. Just a shout but never seen it suggested on this board and could be the next step for BCFC It would work if you had no expectation of ever getting to the Prem (unless you got incredibly lucky). I doubt you would get the investment either if there was no chance of the investor ever becoming the main shareholder. I guess it all depends what you want for your club, the aspirations of the fans and the aspirations of potential players joining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 It would work if you had no expectation of ever getting to the Prem (unless you got incredibly lucky). I doubt you would get the investment either if there was no chance of the investor ever becoming the main shareholder. I guess it all depends what you want for your club, the aspirations of the fans and the aspirations of potential players joining. Just looking at the forum lately it seems that people are feeling the club and the fans drifting apart. Just a suggestion, as it seems many people want to be more involved. Just a suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I am a big fan of fan owned football clubs. And perhaps, not now, but when SL has had enough we try to move for a 50+1 model. The 50+1 model means that the fans (must be club members, season ticket holders etc) own 51% of the club. This means that they have control over the clubs running's. The other 49% is opened up to investors for financial backing. This means that no one has complete control and has a track record of increasing attendances big time. The Bundesliga (Germann top tier) only has 2 non-fan owned clubs, and have the highest average attendances in Europe, they also have a great fiances, meaning that POTD at Bayern Munich can be as little as £11. And kids are always half price. Our ST range from 3-5ish hundred pounds. Well a Season ticket at Bayern costs less than that, even with the annual membership fee of 50 euros. And when SL does go, we wont get a Liverpool scenario of all talk no cash. No Glazer family with a club built on debt. Just honest fans doing an honest business. Another example is Brentford of League 1. I know they're below us but 2 adults for less than a tenner for their next game. Its the only fan run FL club. Just a shout but never seen it suggested on this board and could be the next step for BCFC A different slant on our current "troubles"...but havn't we been here before when after 82 no shareholder could own more than 5% of the club and the only way to get any investment was to scarp that rule? The club doesn't need more and more cash although I do admit it does need some immidate emergency investment. It needs someone with a bit of vision and a new approach to the stale "English" style maanagement we have had for the last three years. We need a manager who is more technically gifted and can spot a player and place that player in a formation. A manager who can make average players good and good players very good. First hand last night we saw a manager who is fresh and vibrant, has talked post match of pressing high up the pitch and demands that the ball is played on the ground. He has a piittamce of a budget copmpared to City, but his team I'm embarassed to say played our lot off the pitch. The only main investment I want from the people who run the club is a bit of vision. And before anyone says well Swindon aren't doing great...results wise may be not but I understand from work colleagues who are Swindon supporters performances are pretty good..on last nights evidence I agree. I remember losing to Bradford 1 -0 on a Tuesday night at the end of the infamous 9 in a row...yes it wasn't great that we lost again but I think the majoirty that watched that match knew the performances were coming together. IMO we were a million miles away from that last night, the result was bad enough but the perofrmance for me is what hurt the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Just looking at the forum lately it seems that people are feeling the club and the fans drifting apart. Just a suggestion, as it seems many people want to be more involved. Just a suggestion It's an excellent suggestion. And something worth putting to SL who will have all the money he needs by the time he leaves BCFC and might - as with the stadium - be looking to his reputation and legacy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Just looking at the forum lately it seems that people are feeling the club and the fans drifting apart. Just a suggestion, as it seems many people want to be more involved. Just a suggestion It is a good suggestion. Love to know what people's aspirations for the club are. A club where the fans get a huge say what goes on, or a club where you have wealthy people in charge trying to push for the Prem. It would be interesting to see what the census of opinion is here. I think you have genuinely bought up a great topic. I would still go for wealthy owners, not that I disagree with fan ownership, I just do not think most fans would be able to give enough time to make it viable. I could be completely wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 A different slant on our current "troubles"...but havn't we been here before when after 82 no shareholder could own more than 5% of the club and the only way to get any investment was to scarp that rule? The club doesn't need more and more cash although I do admit it does need some immidate emergency investment. It needs someone with a bit of vision and a new approach to the stale "English" style maanagement we have had for the last three years. We need a manager who is more technically gifted and can spot a player and place that player in a formation. A manager who can make average players good and good players very good. First hand last night we saw a manager who is fresh and vibrant, has talked post match of pressing high up the pitch and demands that the ball is played on the ground. He has a piittamce of a budget copmpared to City, but his team I'm embarassed to say played our lot off the pitch. The only main investment I want from the people who run the club is a bit of vision. And before anyone says well Swindon aren't doing great...results wise may be not but I understand from work colleagues who are Swindon supporters performances are pretty good..on last nights evidence I agree. I remember losing to Bradford 1 -0 on a Tuesday night at the end of the infamous 9 in a row...yes it wasn't great that we lost again but I think the majoirty that watched that match knew the performances were coming together. IMO we were a million miles away from that last night, the result was bad enough but the perofrmance for me is what hurt the most. Add to that Swindon are not skint anymore, they are in a much healthier financial situation than us, I do believe they are running Swindon now at a slight profit. |Good times if he can get all those new players to blend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Colby-Tit Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Great in theory but the fans would never be able to raise enough money, I would estimate the club being worth between £30m and £50m, not a chance imo. That was my initial thought, but 10,000 putting in a £5k stake would cover it. Seems do-able, but as you say, great in theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippy273 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 It would work if you had no expectation of ever getting to the Prem (unless you got incredibly lucky). I doubt you would get the investment either if there was no chance of the investor ever becoming the main shareholder. I guess it all depends what you want for your club, the aspirations of the fans and the aspirations of potential players joining. It's working for the reformed AFC Wimbledon isn't it? their fans own the club and they've started from the bottom upwards and made it back into league football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 It's working for the reformed AFC Wimbledon isn't it? their fans own the club and they've started from the bottom upwards and made it back into league football. Certainly is. It will be interesting to see how far they can take it. How did the Ebsfleet fan ownership go after we gave them £150k for Akinde? I have to say I haven't followed that story. FC have done quite well under Man U fans as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Aren't AFC Wimbledon fan owned? Little known club called FC Barcelona too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Bath are fano owned too. Personally I just cant see it working higher up or in the long term, but it will be interesting to see how fan owned clubs progressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Aren't AFC Wimbledon fan owned? Little known club called FC Barcelona too? Erm Barca are kind of fann owned but are also 450 million euros in debt! who is responsible for that? I wouldn't like to be part responsible for it no matter how good and successful they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 It would work if you had no expectation of ever getting to the Prem (unless you got incredibly lucky). I doubt you would get the investment either if there was no chance of the investor ever becoming the main shareholder. I guess it all depends what you want for your club, the aspirations of the fans and the aspirations of potential players joining. I enjoyed going to the Gate just as much when we were scrapping in the old division 2/3, and paid about 1/4 of the price for the privilege. At least it was honest back then - not just about who's got the deepest pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I enjoyed going to the Gate just as much when we were scrapping in the old division 2/3, and paid about 1/4 of the price for the privilege. At least it was honest back then - not just about who's got the deepest pockets. I have always enjoyed our football more the lower down the pecking order we go, we compete better. We are at about the limit of where we should be without major investment. That is why i think changing manager will not make difference. We have the playing staff we can afford, and they are just good enough, in my opinion to keep you in the division, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Aren't AFC Wimbledon fan owned? Little known club called FC Barcelona too? this is impressive The Camp Nou way 142,000 Barcelona members or socios 4 Major shareholders in Arsenal £69 Cheapest adult season ticket at the Camp Nou £885 Cheapest at the Emirates Stadium £579 Most expensive adult season ticket at the Camp Nou £1,825 Most expensive at the Emirates Stadium £84m Barça's income in 2002-03, before Joan Laporta took over £163m Barça's income in 2005-6 2 Maximum number of four-year terms a Barça president may serve Guess to be successful you need the supporters in the first place, now where can we find an extra 85k supporters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted August 25, 2011 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I am a big fan of fan owned football clubs. And perhaps, not now, but when SL has had enough we try to move for a 50+1 model. The 50+1 model means that the fans (must be club members, season ticket holders etc) own 51% of the club. This means that they have control over the clubs running's. The other 49% is opened up to investors for financial backing. This means that no one has complete control and has a track record of increasing attendances big time. The Bundesliga (Germann top tier) only has 2 non-fan owned clubs, and have the highest average attendances in Europe, they also have a great fiances, meaning that POTD at Bayern Munich can be as little as £11. And kids are always half price. Our ST range from 3-5ish hundred pounds. Well a Season ticket at Bayern costs less than that, even with the annual membership fee of 50 euros. And when SL does go, we wont get a Liverpool scenario of all talk no cash. No Glazer family with a club built on debt. Just honest fans doing an honest business. Another example is Brentford of League 1. I know they're below us but 2 adults for less than a tenner for their next game. Its the only fan run FL club. Just a shout but never seen it suggested on this board and could be the next step for BCFC Fully support the sentiment. One slight correction of fact: the 50+1 rule in Germany says that where the parent members club spins off its professional football operation into a limited company, 50% of the voting rights in that company, plus one vote (hence the 50+1 name) must be held by the parent members club. So it's not necessarily 50+% of ownership, but 50+% of control. The two are not always the same. A good example of fan involvement in club ownership in the UK currently is Swansea: newly promoted to the Premier League and 20% owned by their Supporters Trust. Meanwhile in North Wales, Wrexham's Supporters Trust are currently in the process of saving their club from extinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted August 25, 2011 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I am a big fan of fan owned football clubs. And perhaps, not now, but when SL has had enough we try to move for a 50+1 model. The 50+1 model means that the fans (must be club members, season ticket holders etc) own 51% of the club. This means that they have control over the clubs running's. The other 49% is opened up to investors for financial backing. This means that no one has complete control and has a track record of increasing attendances big time. The Bundesliga (Germann top tier) only has 2 non-fan owned clubs, and have the highest average attendances in Europe, they also have a great fiances, meaning that POTD at Bayern Munich can be as little as £11. And kids are always half price. Our ST range from 3-5ish hundred pounds. Well a Season ticket at Bayern costs less than that, even with the annual membership fee of 50 euros. And when SL does go, we wont get a Liverpool scenario of all talk no cash. No Glazer family with a club built on debt. Just honest fans doing an honest business. Another example is Brentford of League 1. I know they're below us but 2 adults for less than a tenner for their next game. Its the only fan run FL club. Just a shout but never seen it suggested on this board and could be the next step for BCFC Fully support the sentiment. One slight correction of fact: the 50+1 rule in Germany says that where the parent members club spins off its professional football operation into a limited company, 50% of the voting rights in that company, plus one vote (hence the 50+1 name) must be held by the parent members club. So it's not necessarily 50+% of ownership, but 50+% of control. The two are not always the same. A good example of fan involvement in club ownership in the UK currently is Swansea: newly promoted to the Premier League and 20% owned by their Supporters Trust. Meanwhile in North Wales, Wrexham's Supporters Trust are currently in the process of saving their club from extinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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