GrahamC Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm not going to lie, the names that appear to have made our final 5 aren't exactly inspiring. But then I thought about the following Championship managers; Sean Dyche, Dean Saunders, Keith Hill, Kenny Jackett and Dougie Freeman. Would anyone be that impressed if we'd appointed any of these? Fact is these are our competitors, we're making big losses every year and apart form the hardcore 12,000 or so "fans" desert us when things don't go well. So for me whoever gets it I hope the board get it right (and 1 right from 4 isn't a great track record) and that we stay up and push on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hicksy-BCFC Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm not going to lie, the names that appear to have made our final 5 aren't exactly inspiring. But then I thought about the following Championship managers; Sean Dyche, Dean Saunders, Keith Hill, Kenny Jackett and Dougie Freeman. Would anyone be that impressed if we'd appointed any of these? Fact is these are our competitors, we're making big losses every year and apart form the hardcore 12,000 or so "fans" desert us when things don't go well. So for me whoever gets it I hope the board get it right (and 1 right from 4 isn't a great track record) and that we stay up and push on. What's the reality check though? That instead of going for a manager with a proven record of success at this level, they'll opt for the cheaper option? Wouldn't surprise me, as a football club we've been doing that since the days of Les Kew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 What's the reality check though? That instead of going for a manager with a proven record of success at this level, they'll opt for the cheaper option? Wouldn't surprise me, as a football club we've been doing that since the days of Les Kew. That this is the market we're operating in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hicksy-BCFC Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 That this is the market we're operating in. I don't necessarily agree. There are guys out there who would excite and would boost morale. McInnes, Jones or even O'Driscoll would do that. Thing is nobody wants Mark Robins as manager (like with Millen) but our board for years always seem to settle with a cheaper option. It's very frustrating for us all. We do it to ourselves - we can bring someone decent in - I hope we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-H Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Dave Jones will do a good job and install a bit of discipline too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1984 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Dave Jones will do a good job and install a bit of discipline too You seem pretty certain its Jones. Been chatting with Cole lately? Do you actually know something or just hoping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-H Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 You seem pretty certain its Jones. Been chatting with Cole lately? Do you actually know something or just hoping? I don't know anything, I was just thinking out loud. It's no secret I want Jones out of the available. I think he's the right man at this time. Anyone but Robins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 A Lot of the financial problems srem from poor control at boardroom level. Allowing endless signings of a similar standard, rather than improving what we had whilst at the same time not making sure the same number of players leave through the exit door. In addition they've not dictated to managers the need to give accademy players a go before signing expensive players and loan signings. Perhaps 'controlling' the manager in this way rather than 'helping' by giving team talks before games would have seen the club in a better financial and footballing position right now. Making a cheap managerial appointment will increase not reduce the financial issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1984 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 in reply to MattyH Fair enough mate. Agree about Robins in all. This is imo the most important appointment for our club to make for some time as it will shape our future for years to come. Got to get this one right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 The board won't please everyone, but it seems Robins is the most unpopular choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 The board won't please everyone, but it seems Robins is the most unpopular choice. Amongst a few on this forum, which doesn't necessarily represent the majority view of City fans... Whoever gets job, they should get our support and be given the chance to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportingmad0209 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Nobody has been appointed yet, and nobody knows for sure who is in the running... Even the bookies don't seem the know. The odds are up and down like a whores drawers... Let's assume the board has learnt by their mistakeS, and wait and see... Either way we need to get behind whoever they put in charge, and give him (or her) some time to turn it around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hicksy-BCFC Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 and give him (or her) some time to turn it around! Oooooh yes. The Manageress. Step forward Cheri Lunghi. I was a kid at school at the time but god dammmmmmmmmmmmn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Amongst a few on this forum, which doesn't necessarily represent the majority view of City fans... Whoever gets job, they should get our support and be given the chance to succeed. Absolutely wrong there. Look on the polls... vast majority do NOT want Robins. Whichever way you cut and slice it Robins would be a very very unpopular choice and i maintain this forum IS very indicative of the average City fan... a good cross spectrum of ages, backgrounds and locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Let's write off the man who has experience getting clubs out of the relegation zone, which, (oh look!) is where we are at the present. At Rotherham, he took a club who were 17 points adrift at the foot of the table and guided them to the play-off places. Yet people seem to believe he can't motivate players. Utter craap! He played at Man U, Norwich and Leicester as well as on the continent and would have good contacts too. I'd be quite happy for Robins to be our next manager as I'd be 100% confident we'd stay up. I can't say that for all of the other names that have been mentioned. And before people leap in, he's not my preferred candidate. I don't have one. Most of the names being discussed have pros as well as cons. Whoever is appointed will have my 100% support because I judge things on what I see on the pitch, not what I've read here or some vague opinion others might hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderArmyy Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'd be happy with kenny jacket, more than robins and SoD anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtonvale Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Let's write off the man who has experience getting clubs out of the relegation zone, which, (oh look!) is where we are at the present. At Rotherham, he took a club who were 17 points adrift at the foot of the table and guided them to the play-off places. Yet people seem to believe he can't motivate players. Utter craap! He played at Man U, Norwich and Leicester as well as on the continent and would have good contacts too. I'd be quite happy for Robins to be our next manager as I'd be 100% confident we'd stay up. I can't say that for all of the other names that have been mentioned. And before people leap in, he's not my preferred candidate. I don't have one. Most of the names being discussed have pros as well as cons. Whoever is appointed will have my 100% support because I judge things on what I see on the pitch, not what I've read here or some vague opinion others might hold. Excellent post! There is no magic formula, we have to trust the board to make the decision that makes the most sense for BCFC, having considered all the options. But once the decision is made, he needs to have complete support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm not going to lie, the names that appear to have made our final 5 aren't exactly inspiring. But then I thought about the following Championship managers; Sean Dyche, Dean Saunders, Keith Hill, Kenny Jackett and Dougie Freeman. Would anyone be that impressed if we'd appointed any of these? Fact is these are our competitors, we're making big losses every year and apart form the hardcore 12,000 or so "fans" desert us when things don't go well. So for me whoever gets it I hope the board get it right (and 1 right from 4 isn't a great track record) and that we stay up and push on. I agree, pretty uninspiring final five if you ask me. If they're choosing from those five, it must be Jones - the others don't even come close for me. Jones is the only one with the reputation and experience that can move us forward - the others are wannabe's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Let's write off the man who has experience getting clubs out of the relegation zone, which, (oh look!) is where we are at the present. At Rotherham, he took a club who were 17 points adrift at the foot of the table and guided them to the play-off places. Yet people seem to believe he can't motivate players. Utter craap! He played at Man U, Norwich and Leicester as well as on the continent and would have good contacts too. I'd be quite happy for Robins to be our next manager as I'd be 100% confident we'd stay up. I can't say that for all of the other names that have been mentioned. And before people leap in, he's not my preferred candidate. I don't have one. Most of the names being discussed have pros as well as cons. Whoever is appointed will have my 100% support because I judge things on what I see on the pitch, not what I've read here or some vague opinion others might hold. Absolutely on the money there Rob, I think I would prefer Mcinnes if Tisdale is not one of the "5", but whoever comes in will have my support, I fail to see where this bout of hatred from a vocal band of hidden voices get their views from. Robins has proven himself to be a good manager at this level with one of the only clubs in this division who we can claim to be "bigger" than. Robins has a reputation at lower levels of working within a budget and developing youth players, Robins has a wealth of playing experience around England and Europe, he has seen and played football in different cultures. Robins is another ex Sir Alex pupil, he might not be as close as some others but he will certainly have him in the phonebook. He's not the high profile name that everyone wants, but the more I think about it the more I see why he would be near the top of the list. I haven't seen any actual reasons so far as to why people don't want him to be our manager, just lazily claiming "Anyone but the cheap option" How about, "Anyone so long as they're the right option"? I agree, pretty uninspiring final five if you ask me. If they're choosing from those five, it must be Jones - the others don't even come close for me. Jones is the only one with the reputation and experience that can move us forward - the others are wannabe's... Sorry, but what a crock of shite point that is. The other four are (as far as we know) Robins, McInnes, O'Driscoll and ____ Robins and McInnes are two young managers who are on their way up, how does up and coming suddenly turn into "wannabe's" in your eyes? Pessimistic and arguably foolish logic there. "O'Driscoll is proven, done wonders at Donny and was for years linked with moves to the Premier League, Burnley and Bolton have in the past been linked but were fended off by Ryan's compensation demands. It's good to see the same old posters finding reasons to moan before the decision has been made, a time when the club needs to pull together and understand just how much of a mire we are in from top to bottom is being seen as an opportunity for the usual divisive 'supporters' to create some drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sorry, but what a crock of shite point that is. The other four are (as far as we know) Robins, McInnes, O'Driscoll and ____ Robins and McInnes are two young managers who are on their way up, how does up and coming suddenly turn into "wannabe's" in your eyes? Pessimistic and arguably foolish logic there. "O'Driscoll is proven, done wonders at Donny and was for years linked with moves to the Premier League, Burnley and Bolton have in the past been linked but were fended off by Ryan's compensation demands. It's good to see the same old posters finding reasons to moan before the decision has been made, a time when the club needs to pull together and understand just how much of a mire we are in from top to bottom is being seen as an opportunity for the usual divisive 'supporters' to create some drama. In comparison with Jones, they "are" wannabes - Jones has a vast amount of Premier and Championship management experience, which the others can only dream of... The reason that the "same old posters" are finding something to moan about is simple - we also have had a lot of experience with the club underachieving by choosing managers that don't have the bottle, experience or capability to move the club forward. I can only speak for me, but all I'm saying is let's, for once, go with someone who KNOWS how tough it is to be successful at the top. Of the shortlisted five, ONLY Jones has that knowledge. Now is not the time for "young, up-and-coming, promising managers" - NOW is the time to get us out of the mire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm not going to lie, the names that appear to have made our final 5 aren't exactly inspiring. But then I thought about the following Championship managers; Sean Dyche, Dean Saunders, Keith Hill, Kenny Jackett and Dougie Freeman. Would anyone be that impressed if we'd appointed any of these? Fact is these are our competitors, we're making big losses every year and apart form the hardcore 12,000 or so "fans" desert us when things don't go well. So for me whoever gets it I hope the board get it right (and 1 right from 4 isn't a great track record) and that we stay up and push on. I bet the decision has already been made, perhaps before Millen even left. This is all a recruitment process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Let's write off the man who has experience getting clubs out of the relegation zone, which, (oh look!) is where we are at the present. At Rotherham, he took a club who were 17 points adrift at the foot of the table and guided them to the play-off places. Yet people seem to believe he can't motivate players. Utter craap! He played at Man U, Norwich and Leicester as well as on the continent and would have good contacts too. I'd be quite happy for Robins to be our next manager as I'd be 100% confident we'd stay up. I can't say that for all of the other names that have been mentioned. And before people leap in, he's not my preferred candidate. I don't have one. Most of the names being discussed have pros as well as cons. Whoever is appointed will have my 100% support because I judge things on what I see on the pitch, not what I've read here or some vague opinion others might hold. Another excellent post Sir. The bottom line is Robins has done well in his previous two jobs, one of which being in the Championship where he did well considering the resources he had at his disposal. It seems like he got more out of Danny Haynes than we did for a start! He's not my first choice but why so many are against him is odd to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfoot saint Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sorry i know i'm a st johnstone fan and dont know a lot about your club but because of the intrest you have shown in our manager i've been reading with intrest your views on who you want for a new manager,as a saints fan for many years i have seen our club change the way it looks for managers we went for the same old names journey men managers who would do fine for a while then the club would stagnate and we would be back to square one,then a few years ago we started going for young managers who were hungry and needed a club to take a chance on them its not always worked (Billy stark) but there has been sucesses owen coyle and mcinnes from what i've seen and read on this forum you are in the same position so maybe your last manager failed in this first job but dont let that put you off taking a risk with someone like mcinnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sorry i know i'm a st johnstone fan and dont know a lot about your club but because of the intrest you have shown in our manager i've been reading with intrest your views on who you want for a new manager,as a saints fan for many years i have seen our club change the way it looks for managers we went for the same old names journey men managers who would do fine for a while then the club would stagnate and we would be back to square one,then a few years ago we started going for young managers who were hungry and needed a club to take a chance on them its not always worked (Billy stark) but there has been sucesses owen coyle and mcinnes from what i've seen and read on this forum you are in the same position so maybe your last manager failed in this first job but dont let that put you off taking a risk with someone like mcinnes Agreed, i want another young and ambitious manager which is why i think McInnes should get the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I did another thread elsewhere on here, which looked at our appointments since JoeJordan c1991. during that time it has been all in house, or up and comers as a general rule and during that time we have had 1 success out of about 13 or so managers, using that method We have gone for experience or rather a proven manager once in all that time, and because he walked away and retired. Do people want to revert to the tried and tested measure of appointing up and comers and (largely) failing, in the hope of finding the one again? Or, do they want to go for something away from the norm? I don't buy the idea that you can categorise managers and then say one category is any more or less likely than the other to succeed. Learned that lesson the hard way with Coppell. Getting this appointment right is not about doing analysis of statistics or history, it is about judging the character and personal qualities of the man himself and you just can't do that other than in person. Also, this job is has a few special constraints - the new manager will have to rebuild the squad in the summer when over a dozen players leave, and probably trim the wage bill a bit when they do so. That will have to be a factor in how the board assess candidates because SL has made it clear he wants the club to run on a sounder business footing. I hope our board is not assessing based on reputation or history, but on what the people they interview say and how they say it. It's the only useful way to pick the right person IMO. Personally I'd want to hear how a potential manager would get enough out of the squad to keep us up, what kind of strategy (ie recruitment, scouting, youth, coaching) they'd employ within the constraints the club has to make us challenge next season and how they'd take us forward in the longer term bearing in mind the potential of the new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I don't buy the idea that you can categorise managers and then say one category is any more or less likely than the other to succeed. Learned that lesson the hard way with Coppell. Getting this appointment right is not about doing analysis of statistics or history, it is about judging the character and personal qualities of the man himself and you just can't do that other than in person. Also, this job is has a few special constraints - the new manager will have to rebuild the squad in the summer when over a dozen players leave, and probably trim the wage bill a bit when they do so. That will have to be a factor in how the board assess candidates because SL has made it clear he wants the club to run on a sounder business footing. I hope our board is not assessing based on reputation or history, but on what the people they interview say and how they say it. It's the only useful way to pick the right person IMO. Personally I'd want to hear how a potential manager would get enough out of the squad to keep us up, what kind of strategy (ie recruitment, scouting, youth, coaching) they'd employ within the constraints the club has to make us challenge next season and how they'd take us forward in the longer term bearing in mind the potential of the new stadium. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the1stknowle Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I did another thread elsewhere on here, which looked at our appointments since JoeJordan c1991. during that time it has been all in house, or up and comers as a general rule and during that time we have had 1 success out of about 13 or so managers, using that method We have gone for experience or rather a proven manager once in all that time, and because he walked away and retired. Do people want to revert to the tried and tested measure of appointing up and comers and (largely) failing, in the hope of finding the one again? Or, do they want to go for something away from the norm? Most managers fail though, no? With clubs our size at least. What do you call success? Because as we've discussed on other threads, an average football league manager lasts is around 1.5 years. So is a two year stint success? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15159931.stm And surely Ward and Johnson are two success, no? I guess it depends what you call up-and-coming as well: Danny Wilson had managed in the Prem. Ward, Smith, Johnson and Jordon (second time) must have all had at 6-10 years experience before they came to us. Admittedly lower league but we were lower league then. Benny had been managing for nearly 30 years before he came to us. In that time, we've had a few in-house. Osman, the fatal threeway, Tinnion and Millen. But we also had the Jordan first spell which must have been a success and that was in-house. I understand what you're saying, but for me it's just backwards reasoning (as in going from conclusion to premise). Saying "they failed because I'm classing them in the in-house and/or up-and-coming and also as failures and the reason they all failed was because they were up-and-coming/in-house". Just not sure it holds water. You could just as easily say, by your logic, we've had one manager that I recognise as experienced and he lasted 2 games with a 100% loss rate. Therefore history shows us that experience at Bristol City = disaster. Which is patently nonsense. The reasons managers fail are manifold. And also we often look back on things in football and think they were a failure when really it was quite a successful period. I just think when most managers are destined to "fail" we need to be a little more accepting that often it just comes down to a little luck, the right man with the right fit for the club at the right time with the right squad of players that happen take to his style. This as opposed to there being a definite formula that experience above all else will substantially increase your chances of success. It's a factor, but there are others and I'd hate the board to look just at that, particularly when they know our exact circumstances (financially and in terms of what's going on with the players) better than anyone on this board. As I've said elsewhere, Ive been encouraged by the diversity of candidates on the supposed final 5 and the fact that we are going through a proper process rather than walking someone in. It's the best way to find the right fit. No guarantees. But the most sensible way in the absence of guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfoot saint Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 No we just realize that managers will use our club to as a stepping stone the last thing we want is a manager who sees saints as the pinnacle of there career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 In comparison with Jones, they "are" wannabes - Jones has a vast amount of Premier and Championship management experience, which the others can only dream of... The reason that the "same old posters" are finding something to moan about is simple - we also have had a lot of experience with the club underachieving by choosing managers that don't have the bottle, experience or capability to move the club forward. I can only speak for me, but all I'm saying is let's, for once, go with someone who KNOWS how tough it is to be successful at the top. Of the shortlisted five, ONLY Jones has that knowledge. Now is not the time for "young, up-and-coming, promising managers" - NOW is the time to get us out of the mire... which is why Robins is arguably much better suited as a proven manager at struggling teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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