red84 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I keep wondering why in recent years managers keep trying to persist in trying out 442? Were much more solid playing with Someone in front of the defence and until we get that ball winning centre half nothing will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 100% agree. Been banging this particular drum since the start of the season- Cisse, Kilkenny Elliott provides a real balance. As for why managers persist, maybe they think it's what the fans want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Montana Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 100% agree. Been banging this particular drum since the start of the season- Cisse, Kilkenny Elliott provides a real balance. As for why managers persist, maybe they think it's what the fans want? Exactly right, Cisse in front of the back 4 allows the rest of the team to attack and defend alot easier. Kilkenny can be more valuable further up the field and it also allows the full-backs to get forward and support the wingers. Overall with Cisse in the side we are a much better team ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 del said we might need to play 4-5-1 given the players in the squad, hasn't altered the midfield, then er picks 4-4-2, it's when managers start contradicting themselves i get worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 our 2 best performances have been Saints and Millwall both with a 4-5-1, no brainer really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Maybe it's already been mentioned on here but did he give his reasons for why he chose 4-4-2 today!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I keep wondering why in recent years managers keep trying to persist in trying out 442? Were much more solid playing with Someone in front of the defence and until we get that ball winning centre half nothing will change. We don't score enough goals with 451, we need to start scoring soon and I believe we absolutely must get 442 working at some point. Having two threats up front will give the opposition something to think about, we are far too predictable with 5 in midfield. 442 does work very well but the ball needs to played out wide a lot quicker than we do. For example, when we had Sproule he would quite often frustratingly hold and wait for the ball to be played from a standing start, despite being the quickest thing on two legs and using his brain to sit on the left back, he would check his run and wait on the half way line when the defenders have pushed up onto him. The ball needs to be moved much quicker around pulling the opposition about and therefore giving the wider players licence to sit on top of the fullbacks for a ball to be played in behind. The wide players have not got a chance in hell of doing any damage when they are waiting for a ball played on the half way after slow play giving the oppo midfield time to squeeze the play. 442 can still have Cisse playing a deeper role as long as he is taking the ball from defence, the other central midfielder should be getting in a more advance position and be able to use the front line as an out ball or the wings. 442 will work well as long as we use it in the correct way, a midfielder who can get forward and pass in tight spaces, Brian Howard used to play this role very well for Barnsley, we can't keep using the same old problem trying to be the new solution. New midfielder needed, but we all knew this 3 seasons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 We don't score enough goals with 451, we need to start scoring soon and I believe we absolutely must get 442 working at some point. Having two threats up front will give the opposition something to think about, we are far too predictable with 5 in midfield. 442 does work very well but the ball needs to played out wide a lot quicker than we do. For example, when we had Sproule he would quite often frustratingly hold and wait for the ball to be played from a standing start, despite being the quickest thing on two legs and using his brain to sit on the left back, he would check his run and wait on the half way line when the defenders have pushed up onto him. The ball needs to be moved much quicker around pulling the opposition about and therefore giving the wider players licence to sit on top of the fullbacks for a ball to be played in behind. The wide players have not got a chance in hell of doing any damage when they are waiting for a ball played on the half way after slow play giving the oppo midfield time to squeeze the play. 442 can still have Cisse playing a deeper role as long as he is taking the ball from defence, the other central midfielder should be getting in a more advance position and be able to use the front line as an out ball or the wings. 442 will work well as long as we use it in the correct way, a midfielder who can get forward and pass in tight spaces, Brian Howard used to play this role very well for Barnsley, we can't keep using the same old problem trying to be the new solution. New midfielder needed, but we all knew this 3 seasons ago. Our best results have come with 4-5-1/4-3-3 hybrid. Best performances too. 4-4-2 has yielded some pretty dreadful displays however, not least Swindon at home. Even if we need two up front, too much pressure on the defence with our midfield surely. There's a reason why a lot of the top sides in the world have abandoned 4-4-2...Now while we are in no way in that calibre, more domination of midfield surely the way forward- can't be done in a 4-4-2 with our squad or even that magic bullet of a creative midfielder I think. 3-5-2 though with 3 CB perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 We have played 4-4-2 a number of times this season vs Ipswich conceded 3, scored 0 vs Blackpool Conceded 5, scored 0 vs Reading Conceded 3, scored 2 vs Swindon coneded 1, scored 0 vs Brighton today conceded 2, scored 0 And so forth and so on As per your posts elsewhere. Ive had a list of the times we have played 4-4-2 this season, basically we have been dire or thrashed, mixed in with one draw from a winning position and a few losses from a winning position It doesnt work. Thats not saying anything about the players who play in the formation. Simply if we play it we are more likely to get obliterated or lose.. No if's buts or maybes about it Well said! Sums it up really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 We have played 4-4-2 a number of times this season vs Ipswich conceded 3, scored 0 vs Blackpool Conceded 5, scored 0 vs Reading Conceded 3, scored 2 vs Swindon coneded 1, scored 0 vs Brighton today conceded 2, scored 0 And so forth and so on As per your posts elsewhere. Ive had a list of the times we have played 4-4-2 this season, basically we have been dire or thrashed, mixed in with one draw from a winning position and a few losses from a winning position It doesnt work. Thats not saying anything about the players who play in the formation. Simply if we play it we are more likely to get obliterated or lose.. No if's buts or maybes about it As I pointed out we need a better midfielder in to make it work, we have needed a creative midfielder for 3 seasons, We need to score more goals, and unless we get a midfield like Barcelona, who pass and move 451 doesn't work either. It's slightly better playing 451 than 442 at the moment due to our lack of creativity, but lets not pretend 451 works very well because the fact is it doesn't. We need to score more and 451 is very defensive with the players we have. It wouldn't take much to work out for a scout at how we play it would it. It would read something like double mark Adomah and score a goal and you win. At least if we had a creative midfielder we could mix it up with 442 and attack teams and play percentages with goals to shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 **** it then. Lets go Keegan style - 334!!! 4 up front should make it nice n open! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 442 does not work with the players we have and as we can't get rid of them until the EOS, we have to play with 5 in midfield.....THE RESULTS PROVE IT. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red84 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 As I pointed out we need a better midfielder in to make it work, we have needed a creative midfielder for 3 seasons, We need to score more goals, and unless we get a midfield like Barcelona, who pass and move 451 doesn't work either. It's slightly better playing 451 than 442 at the moment due to our lack of creativity, but lets not pretend 451 works very well because the fact is it doesn't. We need to score more and 451 is very defensive with the players we have. It wouldn't take much to work out for a scout at how we play it would it. It would read something like double mark Adomah and score a goal and you win. At least if we had a creative midfielder we could mix it up with 442 and attack teams and play percentages with goals to shots. I personally think 451 does work going forward as Elliott and Kilkenny push further on as cisse gives them cover, the chances created against southampton and millwall show that. Results are what we need and 442 doesn't work with the current personnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goonivan! Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thought it could have worked today but with Yannick left and Foster right. Didn't think Brighton were that strong through the middle and Foster's pace and Yannick's dribbling caused them problems. Must admit I was baffled by the starting lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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