Cider Army Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Reading a few things on here and topics regarding the lack of creative players and certain academy players being loaned out,or contracts coming to an end,Is time to freshen up the head coach and coaching staff at the academy.. Nothing against john clayton because i feel hes done a great job over the years,But im thinking now and looking at the current first team and size of the squad the academy just isn't giving the first team manager a choice to maybe freshen up the first team with a hungry young player (or home grown) talent.. It doesn't make sense as they play high level academy teams every week..Is it a confidence thing through out the club or maybe the youth get to a certain point they dont feel they can knock on to first team level.. New coaches new ideas fresh approach?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I still think, nomatter the coaches, its a geographical thing. Just dont think we attract decent youngsters so doesnt matter how good the coaches are, they cant turn the average younguns weve got into players that can make it. Havnt the F.A changed the rules no meaning its easier for the big clubs to take the better youngsters, effectively meaning we wont be able to attract them anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Reading a few things on here and topics regarding the lack of creative players and certain academy players being loaned out,or contracts coming to an end,Is time to freshen up the head coach and coaching staff at the academy.. Nothing against john clayton because i feel hes done a great job over the years,But im thinking now and looking at the current first team and size of the squad the academy just isn't giving the first team manager a choice to maybe freshen up the first team with a hungry young player (or home grown) talent.. It doesn't make sense as they play high level academy teams every week..Is it a confidence thing through out the club or maybe the youth get to a certain point they dont feel they can knock on to first team level.. New coaches new ideas fresh approach?? Possibly yeah. It does make you wonder why in the past we have deemed some players not good enough to make the step up, for example someone like Ryan Harley never really got a chance with us, drops down the divisions and then becomes a decent player probably capable of championship football now! Somewhere along the line we are not spotting the potential in the players we have, as well as not producing enough! For a club making losses like we are, I would have thought the youth and academy side of things were more important now than they ever have been! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcbs20 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 If the Premier League bring that rule in where they can pinch any young player they want for pennies then I dont see the point having a youth setup any player that shows any promise will be off before they get anywhere near our first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Army Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 im not sure to be honest, if it is that means the academy has to work harder.Regarding local young players thats up to certain coaches to spot talent and to bring them through(southwest has plenty of talent but for some reason like you say maybe a regional thing).. If any of these players from 9 to say 16 aren't any good how have they made the next step on?.I still believe its down to coaches to know what it is about a player.I Still cant think of a player that has looked out standing in a reserve game when they got a first team contract they just fade away or loose all confidence to make it through.(In general i mean in the last few years).Yes theres wilson which i think will come good but thats it since the days when danny wilson brought the youth on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcherryberry Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Clayton & his coaches at U18 level got to go for sure. We hear all the time about our promising kids but once they hit the U18's suddenly stutter and disappear of the radar before eventually being released. We are bottom of the Academy table at this level and dumped out of the youth cup by Pompey first time of asking where Clayton gave the excuse after of the players being star struck? of the Pompey lads (Yes Portsmouth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 The U18s are not bottom of the academy league actually, MK Dons have that distinction at the moment. However next come Birmingham and then BC followed by Cardiff whom they play Saturday by the way. Top of the league is Coventry, so i suppose one consideration is that the league position in academy football is actually not a barometer for measuring first team success. I have said this many times before and also on this forum and got slaughtered so perhaps i am a glutton for punishment, but when you have 30 pro's on the books, how on earth is it possible for u18 players to be given the relevant experience at reserve level games never mind the 1st team. On top of that the manager is taking short term decisions to strengthen his defence and add loan players in order to keep city in the championship. You possibly cant knock him for that, but at some stage all clubs have to grow from within, for finance sake if nothing else. BCFC lost £11m last year !!!!!!!!!! Barcelona which is what everyone should at least aspire to have a simple rule......... if they have an academy player in the position in question.... they don't buy Pep G has introduced 29 players in the last couple of seasons giving those players débuts, how magnificent is that ?? We do have good quality 16 and 17 year olds Jamie Hogan 16......... Lewis Hall 16....... Wes Burns..... just turned 17......i could go on, Wes in fact has represented the reserves on many occassions this year, in fact scored against Reading last week.!!....... the players are there but they are held up by fringe players who need time on the pitch. I am not in favour of hacking out academy coaches and blaming them for problems which are deeper than they can influence, those problems exist in all academies. I do however accept that BCFC has to launch more academy players into the first team, i think John Clayton and Dave Horsefield would accept that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 There will be changes. The Elite Player Performance Plan is being introduced this year. The question is what City will be doing about it, I don't think thats been decided yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think a lot of the problems have stemmed from circumstance. If you back over the last 10 years or so, there just hasn't been the opportunity to introduce young players. Under Wilson there seems to have been a certain lack of discipline and this will no doubt have transmitted to the youth setup and may well be why the likes of Harley had to leave the club in order to find the professionaliusm to actually make it as a pro. Under Tinnion we were just in disarray and 7-1 defeats in Swansea are the last place to introduce a young, creative player. Then under Johnson (for all the positives he brought) he just didn't seem to like young players. We've now once again found ourselves in a scrap for the last couple of years and managers (rightly or wrongly) don't want to risk their jobs on the performance of a teenager. Add to this the fact that the only players who've displayed the kind of talent that makes it difficult to not to pick them have been defenders with poor injury records and its not hard to see why a culture of ignoring youth has crept into the club. While the likes of Reid have shown promise in friendlies and brief substitute appearances have they really shown the level of talent that makes it obvious they should be a first team regular? IMO the only one that has is Wilson and he seems on the verge of cementing a place in the team. Further to that players such as Golbourne and Anyinsah who may have commanded first team spots and developed if they'd stayed, moved on to bigger clubs which we can't blame the club or the player for Hopefully now we've established ourselves in the Championship (fingers crossed!) forthe first time in 20 years and the clubs profile is a little higher, we can retain better youth players. I've heard good things about Bryan and Medjadoub and Reid looked good when i've seen him so perhaps in a couple of years we'll be looking back at this thread and wondering what the hell we were moaning about, but its not just a case of blaming the academy; i think the attitude of the whole club needs to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 There will be changes. The Elite Player Performance Plan is being introduced this year. The question is what City will be doing about it, I don't think thats been decided yet. Not sure there is a lot they can do. I've heard on the grapevine that we will be a Cat 3 club, doesnt sound great but it will be the only Cat 3 club in this part of the country which could help us get better young players in. Ultimately the Cat 1 clubs will get the countrys best players, giving them the best chance to develop. I dont think there are likely to be any more than 2 or 3 Cat 1 clubs in England, i think you need the full monty in terms of academy, coaches, schooling etc, much like Man City are building at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I always thought the 7 subs rule was the best idea to get youth involved. Then you could have your 5 normal subs and chuck a couple of 17 year olds on the bench. If your 2 or 3 nil up with 15 to play, let one of them have a run out. Ok, so Portsmouth couldnt put out that many subs, but we got to see Edwards and Reid play championship football, which they would never of before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Not sure there is a lot they can do. I've heard on the grapevine that we will be a Cat 3 club, doesnt sound great but it will be the only Cat 3 club in this part of the country which could help us get better young players in. Ultimately the Cat 1 clubs will get the countrys best players, giving them the best chance to develop. I dont think there are likely to be any more than 2 or 3 Cat 1 clubs in England, i think you need the full monty in terms of academy, coaches, schooling etc, much like Man City are building at the moment. Don't think decided yet. Was told Cat 2 yesterday, but that came possibly more in hope than expectation, and I wouldnt be surprised in the slightest if you are correct and it turned out as Cat 3. I have heard (from an employee of the Premier League) that around 20 clubs, including 2 or 3 in the Championship, were going for Cat 1. Could be wrong, just what I heard. You can guess which Championship clubs those would be, including at least one that was in administration not so long ago. I would have thought that any club with the resources, ambition and interest in developing its youth would go for Cat 2 minimum. I'm told Cat 2 would cost around £900k pa, which is approx 4 times what the Academy costs at the moment. Or the equivalent of a Lee Johnson, or a Nicky Hunt, etc. The Academy seems to get a bit of a raw deal to me, or at least the coaches, who appear to put a lot of effort in for little reward or recognition. The new stadium is supposedly costing £90million, I would have thought that 1% of that could be diverted on to an equally important - more so in my opinion - investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 There will be changes. The Elite Player Performance Plan is being introduced this year. The question is what City will be doing about it, I don't think thats been decided yet. I thought that Millen introduced the "development squad" as an answer to that. Is it still in place or have things changed behind the scenes again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I always thought the 7 subs rule was the best idea to get youth involved. Then you could have your 5 normal subs and chuck a couple of 17 year olds on the bench. If your 2 or 3 nil up with 15 to play, let one of them have a run out. Ok, so Portsmouth couldnt put out that many subs, but we got to see Edwards and Reid play championship football, which they would never of before. Agree there what a stupid rule to bring in, if clubs can only name five subs so be it, travelling preparing for games and sitting on the bench is all part of football education with this stupid rule it restricts teams like you say from doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Don't think decided yet. Was told Cat 2 yesterday, but that came possibly more in hope than expectation, and I wouldnt be surprised in the slightest if you are correct and it turned out as Cat 3. I have heard (from an employee of the Premier League) that around 20 clubs, including 2 or 3 in the Championship, were going for Cat 1. Could be wrong, just what I heard. You can guess which Championship clubs those would be, including at least one that was in administration not so long ago. I would have thought that any club with the resources, ambition and interest in developing its youth would go for Cat 2 minimum. I'm told Cat 2 would cost around £900k pa, which is approx 4 times what the Academy costs at the moment. Or the equivalent of a Lee Johnson, or a Nicky Hunt, etc. The Academy seems to get a bit of a raw deal to me, or at least the coaches, who appear to put a lot of effort in for little reward or recognition. The new stadium is supposedly costing £90million, I would have thought that 1% of that could be diverted on to an equally important - more so in my opinion - investment. Likewise through an F.A employee i heard a few numbers being mentioned. The one that stood out, i can't remember the exact figure, but was very surprised to hear, the majority of Prem clubs will only be getting Cat 2, and very few in the Championship. How accurate this is, i don't know, as you say i don't think anything has been decided just yet. In time it's going to change things in a big way in terms of players coming from grass roots through to signing pro contracts. I think we will be ok for the change as we are one of, if not the biggest club within our region. Smaller London clubs and those that satellite places like Manchester could find it tough though. It'll be the Macclesfield and Bury type clubs that i think may end up struggling with it. Time will tell i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Trust me, we are certain to be a cat 3 academy no higher, however i am reliably told Cardiff City will be no higher. Swansea are not an academy, still a development centre of excellence i believe, but that will change, and Rovers, Plymouth, Hereford, Oxford etc..... well C.O.E is the best they can hope to retain at present. So yes in theory BCFC may actually be slightly better off under the new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have heard that City and Rovers are going for Cat 3. Citys Failand ground hasn't got the facilities for Cat 1 or 2. If they built indoor and outdoor 3g pitches etc... at Failand they will have a better chance of Cat 2. Plus they need to inject more money. Cat 1 will simply be top prem teams. For my pennies worth and I'm not going to go in to detail like I have on other posts, but I think the first team manager needs to get more involved in the academy. Not as such to interfere with John Claytons development plans but to pay more visits, watch more games see whats on offer and take notice. I know this hasn't happened for some time and when it does they don't hang around. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betelgeuse Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 With the subs thing, I'd like to see some kind of rule brought in across the board where a number of subs must be under 21. Maybe 7 subs named where 3 must be under 21? If the rule is the same for every team then surely we'd see more youngsters getting a chance and coming through? Right now we could almost name 2 match day squads of 16 players over 21! Edit - I meant match day squads rather than just subs. Say three under 21's named in the match squad of 16 or 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Apart from the injection of money was is the criteria for each level Cat 1 = Cat 2 = 3g's, indoor 60x40, how many grass pitches etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Army Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I would like to know what Mcinnes thinks of the academy and in general any youngsters he thinks stand out to him..Maybe a possible question that could be forwarded to him. The postion for him this season isnt great as we are fighting to stay in this division.I cant see why not that are club cant equal other clubs academy but with the chances limted for youngers getting into the first team makes it a lot harder.... http://www1.skysport...-signs-new-deal One youngster at leeds signing on. Another player grayson has brought through. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12691/7442470/Main-set-for-Boro-deal Thats another from development squad. It proves it can happen and bristol city shouldnt be any different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmmm Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Its not just a problem at this club but at most clubs in England. Too many scouts and coaches in this country dismiss young players because their physical attributes arent as good the boys who could grow a beard at age 7. Up until 17/18 these stronger more developed players start to fall into the background as players around them become as strong and quick as them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Amazing that Brazil and Argentina frequently produce the very best talent in the world when their kids grow up on sandy pitches, change in a tin hut, and use a ball that is as hard as a brick. In this country as ever the solution to the problem is to throw enormous amounts of money at it, build the very best money can buy and produce players that can't keep the ball for more than three kicks at a time. Maybe, the problem lies elsewhere, perhaps the coaching in this country is diabolical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Its not just a problem at this club but at most clubs in England. Too many scouts and coaches in this country dismiss young players because their physical attributes arent as good the boys who could grow a beard at age 7. Up until 17/18 these stronger more developed players start to fall into the background as players around them become as strong and quick as them. I think this is a fair assessment. If your stature and height isn't there, then ta'ra! There are plenty of small talented players...ummmm...Messi! MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Army Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I feel coaching in this country looks at players in the wrong way...Why should it matter if a player isnt built like a brick s**t house..Its all down to how a player uses a ball controls a ball and also heading a ball and movement..Like you say messi fantastic with the ball at his feet.his movement is magic. Most of all i think young players cant play with that freedom or express themselves..all fitness and power which takes away the hole objective of a footballer.. A player with a enough ability can beat a player that is twice the size. One of the things about this countries game is the pace of the game and power..Look at Barcelona do they need pace and power?? Think its the ball that does the talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.