Panorama. Stadiums Of Hate

[Kid in the Riot]

I'd be more scared of going to the Olympics in London, I could make a sensationalist video of gang culture & violence, add some footage of the riots and pick pocket gangs working the tube, etc.

Not to mention a considerably higher threat of terrorism...

[Barrs Court Red]

Not to mention a considerably higher threat of terrorism...

Not strictly true. Recent bombings in Ukraine suggest that there is a more recent threat.

I wouldn't fancy the tube during the Olympics though, where as mass transit wouldn't bother me in the Euros

[Kid in the Riot]

Not strictly true. Recent bombings in Ukraine suggest that there is a more recent threat.

I wouldn't fancy the tube during the Olympics though, where as mass transit wouldn't bother me in the Euros

By whom and where out of interest? They do have a nice new high speed railway to target!

[NickJ]

i watched panorama and i am also booked up for Ukraine. in all honesty, Sol Campbell was right, they should have been made to get racism eliminated from football before being offered the tournament, not be given the chance to host it and hope that this will help abolish racism. But, the fact is they are hosting it and I for one cant wait to go out there. I know quite a few Polish people and have spoken to a Ukrainian and they say the people in their respective countries cant wait to invite fans from all over europe into their cities and celebrate this 'festival of football'. will there be trouble? probably, yes, but the hype surrounding panorama and the Sky Sports documentaries the other week are ridiculous. they do this before every tournament without fail. before South Africa they done a similar programme on how dangerous it will be. Before Germany 2006 they predicted the start of world war 3 with English, German and Polish hooligans reducing the country to ruins. Its all getting a bit boring now. i can already predict there will be a similar documentary in 2 years before Brazil waring of Argentian hooligans and gun crime, in 4 years how France 2016 will all kick off due to the amount of Egland fans going then Russia 2018 will just re-run last nights panorama but edititing the words Ukraine and Poland to Russia. Those that want to avoid any trouble can easily do that, it just takes a bit of common sense. I think during the tournament you are just as likely as being attacked on a night out in Bristol as you are out there. i have been in the centre of Bristol on many occasions after big England games and it kicks off everywhere. Will there be a panorama documentary on the dangers of supporting England from home and then daring to venture onto the waterfront? Black and Asian fans are saying they do not want to travel now because of this, i think its sad they have been put off without getting the chance to experience what it is like out there. if they were started on around a group of other England fans i know for a fact the the England fans will back them up. I would say though that they do need to keep a lower profile on the evenings, but again, just common sense. dont put yourself into a situation where there could be a potential attack.

As someone that went to the World Cup qualifier in Dnipropetrov'sk in 2009, and ended up drinking and eating in a pub before the game with and at the invite of, a group of Ukrainians, I agree 100% with what you say there. I have returned to Ukraine since albeit not for football, and will be going out there again this year, and do not expect major problems. Of course there will be small groups of locals who will be desparate for some trouble but unless you actually want it and you are sensible in terms of where you go and when you go there, you'd have to be unlucky to come unstuck.

As you have said, the warnings about South Africa 2010 were dire, I was lucky enough to travel around the country and go to all the major cities and didnt experience or witness the slightest hint of trouble. In general wherever you go in the world over 99% of people are welcoming and friendly and the less than 1% who are not are suppressed by the majority.

Hope those words dont come back to haunt me but even if they did it will not in the slightest vindicate or demonstrate the accuracy of the sky and bbc reports.

[Barrs Court Red]

By whom and where out of interest? They do have a nice new high speed railway to target!

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/04/2012427102224778592.html

[PhilC]

Did they mention the fact that Donetsk has many English pubs and apparently the local people are very fond of British culture?

The vast majority of Ukrainians will be friendly and I can't wait to get over there and experience their hospitality.

Sensationalist, scare-mongering = good viewing figures BBC

I'd be more scared of going to the Olympics in London, I could make a sensationalist video of gang culture & violence, add some footage of the riots and pick pocket gangs working the tube, etc.

Exactly. But will the BBC make a half hour documentry on that? No - I sincerely doubt it. In fact they have done quite the opposite by shoving the Olympics down our throats for the last year, and lets not even mention the last 2 weeks with the coverage the torch has been getting. Yet, you could argue there is a realistic threat of the Olympics being a more dangerous place to be this summer.

Once again (As we have seen recently) this is a very one sided view taken by the BBC and they are simply putting together a quick half hour dcumentry (This was one of the better quality Panoramas, mind). It is also typical BBC, with their anti FIFA / UEFA Propaganda.

Although the issue in hand shouldn't be swept under the carpet, The UK does actually has one of the highest crime rates in Europe..... I wonder if the BBC know that?

[eskay]

I originally started this thread because of the shocking scenes of racism/violence inside of a football stadium.

Many of the other points are valid such as the comparisons with SA and the hype that surrounded potential crime over there but the underlying difference with the Ukraine seems to be the association of extreme racism and violence within the terraces.

[Monkeh]

I wouldn't go to ether countrys both are renown for it and should of never been issued the Tourny in the first place it would of been better off going to another country

[Ian M]

I did enjoy finding out that the former Iraqi Information Minister has got himself a top ranking police role in Ukraine.

[BCFC101]

I'm from Poland, and although I've lived in England for a few years now, when I lived in Poland it didn't seem that bad at all. As far as the chanting happens in 90% of the games (unfortunately), the violence doesn't happen every week but maybe once or twice a month and only in bigger derbies.

[antlers]

I'm from Poland, and although I've lived in England for a few years now, when I lived in Poland it didn't seem that bad at all. As far as the chanting happens in 90% of the games (unfortunately), the violence doesn't happen every week but maybe once or twice a month and only in bigger derbies.

you rarely see violence in English football, especially in stadiums. but if you had the job of creating a documentary on English hooligans you could easily put something together similar to last nights programme in the 1st few months of next season. although, i dont rate your chances of finding any English hooligans playing with toy knives in the woods.

[mikebrenn]

Seen and heared all this crap before .always happens before a big tournament.local lads giving it large.when England come to town they will be nowhere to be seen.

[Rednready]

I'd be more scared of going to the Olympics in London, I could make a sensationalist video of gang culture & violence, add some footage of the riots and pick pocket gangs working the tube, etc.

Quite right, and we could add some Joey Barton footage !

[Murraysrightplum]

I accept that there is always a report like this ahead of most tournaments and there is racism, crime, violence etc everywhere, however the most worrying thing was that this was inside a ground as opposed to percieved issues in south africa for example, where all the talk was about where to go/not to go at night when out etc. Furthermore the stewards did absolutely nothing and there was no (apparent) police intervention. Also that it was 'fans' beating up fans of the same team simply because they were Indian...

[real_bristol]

Mind you. Those fans are no where near as bad as the bamboo snipers of Ashton Vale.

[TRL]

I accept that there is always a report like this ahead of most tournaments and there is racism, crime, violence etc everywhere, however the most worrying thing was that this was inside a ground as opposed to percieved issues in south africa for example, where all the talk was about where to go/not to go at night when out etc. Furthermore the stewards did absolutely nothing and there was no (apparent) police intervention. Also that it was 'fans' beating up fans of the same team simply because they were Indian...

Even the mayor was turning a blind eye. they were not saluting they were pointing.

if the authorities are turning a blind eye, then don;t expect too much protection if you get into a scrape.

[Aizoon]

Two people - Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini.

These 2 clowns haven't a clue.

They're very rich, though

[Carey 6]

you rarely see violence in English football, especially in stadiums. but if you had the job of creating a documentary on English hooligans you could easily put something together similar to last nights programme in the 1st few months of next season. although, i dont rate your chances of finding any English hooligans playing with toy knives in the woods.

I don't think it would be anywhere near as bad as that programme, you never hear gorilla noises being chanted at black players, I've never been beaten up by my own fans for being mixed race. I also bet even if you did find a few racist fans they wouldn't be the majority, just a mindless few. Ukraine and Poland should have never been awarded the right to hold such a prestigious tournament until they had kicked it out. It even seemed like the Ob and stewards over there just stood by and watched.

[BASSO]

seen the sol campbell statement in an article yesterday and thought who the **** is this guy to give travel advice? turns out being black is just as good as working for thomas cook however i was wrong because i thought he spoke very well on the matter and its indeed a disgrace that fans over there can just beat the shit out of people for no other reason than being indian and seemingly with no consequence. the police guy was such a liar that it was funny.

the programme was still biased and scaremongering though, noticed that the white power team play in white which is convieniantly left out and i reckon theres a good chance that the white power symbol they use is a tradition. also i wonder about the exact context in which they dislike jews, im guessing in those countries its a statement of weakness rather than because they hate jews, could be wrong though. cant say i appreciate panorama's work much as they already conspired to kill any chance of us hosting the world cup and i despise their holier than thou attitude.

[Nibor]

Shocking - how did this country get awarded the finals??

Bribery, basically. Same way as FIFA and UEFA make every decision.

[Frome Valley]

I don't think it would be anywhere near as bad as that programme, you never hear gorilla noises being chanted at black players, I've never been beaten up by my own fans for being mixed race. I also bet even if you did find a few racist fans they wouldn't be the majority, just a mindless few. Ukraine and Poland should have never been awarded the right to hold such a prestigious tournament until they had kicked it out. It even seemed like the Ob and stewards over there just stood by and watched.

A lot of Poland is a beautiful country. It really is a great Country to go to.

Poland and the Ukraine won their bid for the championships. They beat Turkey which is well known for its warm welcome to England support, Croatia and Hungary [do not dig too deep there], fast imploding Greece and Italy.

It is not so long ago that you would have heard racist abuse at Ashton Gate. It wasn't a few either when Devon White touched the ball. Foreigners cetainly were targetted at Wembley.

Last summer England was hardly a shining example to the world of a perfect utopia, London still has the olympics.

[bcfcbs20]

I think this goes some way to explianing why they have such strong anti semitic views.

[Kid in the Riot]

I don't think it would be anywhere near as bad as that programme, you never hear gorilla noises being chanted at black players, I've never been beaten up by my own fans for being mixed race. I also bet even if you did find a few racist fans they wouldn't be the majority, just a mindless few. Ukraine and Poland should have never been awarded the right to hold such a prestigious tournament until they had kicked it out. It even seemed like the Ob and stewards over there just stood by and watched.

Listen to yourself, John Terry is going to the Euro's and he's up on a racism charge. GB are fielding a drugs cheat in Dwayne Chambers at the Olympics. Beware of hypocrisy

[Rob k]

I accept that there is always a report like this ahead of most tournaments and there is racism, crime, violence etc everywhere, however the most worrying thing was that this was inside a ground as opposed to percieved issues in south africa for example, where all the talk was about where to go/not to go at night when out etc. Furthermore the stewards did absolutely nothing and there was no (apparent) police intervention. Also that it was 'fans' beating up fans of the same team simply because they were Indian...

Leeds fans got battered for being Leeds fans in our end, like a previous poster said you could make that programme anywhere in the world.

[TRL]

Leeds fans got battered for being Leeds fans in our end, like a previous poster said you could make that programme anywhere in the world.

You reckon? When was the last time you saw black, Asian etc etc having the shit kicked out of them by their "own fans" and the police just sat idly by and let it happen, along with most of the stewards?

[Rob k]

You reckon? When was the last time you saw black, Asian etc etc having the shit kicked out of them by their "own fans" and the police just sat idly by and let it happen, along with most of the stewards?

My point is what's the difference? Violence in grounds is violence in grounds regardless of race, colour etc or are we not as bad because those Leeds fans deserved it??? That 30 mins of filming probably took months to get.

[Carey 6]

My point is what's the difference? Violence in grounds is violence in grounds regardless of race, colour etc or are we not as bad because those Leeds fans deserved it??? That 30 mins of filming probably took months to get.

You're referencing 6 fans was it? out of the 15 thou that were at Ashton Gate that day. In Ukraine it was thousands of fans doing it and the minority not. And he was out there for a month. No way could you make anything near the same type of programme with English fans.

[TRL]

My point is what's the difference? Violence in grounds is violence in grounds regardless of race, colour etc or are we not as bad because those Leeds fans deserved it??? That 30 mins of filming probably took months to get.

Totally different against your own fans, you see the odd skirmish of some disagreement, but to pick out your own fans and beat them up because of race is something else entirely.

That hasn't even got the sad excuse that some pull out, that football is emotional, and they deserved a smack because they knew they shouldn't of been there. Both of which are totally wrong IMO. This is purely done because they didn't like non whites. It a complete race issue, nothing to do with ad hoc violence between opposing supporters in a stadium.

[Carey 6]

Listening to Talksport now, Adrian Durham rubbishing it and saying it shouldn't stop you from going, I wonder if he was a Black/Asian person of less importance he'd have the same view?

[Rob k]

You're referencing 6 fans was it? out of the 15 thou that were at Ashton Gate that day. In Ukraine it was thousands of fans doing it and the minority not. And he was out there for a month. No way could you make anything near the same type of programme with English fans.

It was not thousands at all, if everything is ok here then why do so many people think its a bad idea for city to play gas in a friendly? Why do loads of Rovers fans refuse to come to Ashton Gate?