Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 7, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19163578 It seems Ben Haim is standing firm and will take Portsmouth out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBCFC Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Fair play to him....he raises a very good point.....why should he be made to make a massive cut yet Birch and the business boys take their money. Portsmouth only have themselves to blame, at least Ben Haim is standing up for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbred Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I really hope there isn't the normal last minute saving of the club. You see they are going to see Clifford from Chelsea If they are still going after Friday? Not learning AGAIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbcfc Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 As harsh as it sound but going under is the best thing for the club. Whoever goes in still has millions to pay off, a ground that's worthless and no real way out without a billionaire coming to their rescue. The fans are of course the real losers but I'm sure a new club will be formed one with better prospects than the current one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brislingwood Red Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Let em go. They continued to sign the likes of Lawrence despite the precarious position they were in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdc Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Fair play to him....he raises a very good point.....why should he be made to make a massive cut yet Birch and the business boys take their money. Portsmouth only have themselves to blame, at least Ben Haim is standing up for himself. If that was our club, would really be thinking the same on here? I would have thought we would be organising a whitch hunt to track him down and rip us his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Let em go. They continued to sign the likes of Lawrence despite the precarious position they were in. Precisely, one's empathy and patience runs out a little when they continue to sign incredibly well paid players, despite being mired in the brown stuff Ben Haim is entitled to his money, although I admire the players that have walked away and I find BH's stance pretty harsh in the situation. I'm sure he'll never have to work again if he chooses to There has to be a sacrifice at some point, football can't continue. Unfortunately, if it was a L2 club, R*vers for example (!), people would shrug their shoulders and carry on. Having a 'big' club go would make people sit up and take notice At least it would stop my missus trying to get my youngest to swap City for Pompey.....the evil, evil woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Agree 100% with Ben Haim. Pompey's last administrators, UHY Hacker Young, are a £38million creditor in this admin for money owed whilst administrators. Why on earth should he therefore forego his cash so PKF and Birch get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19163578 It seems Ben Haim is standing firm and will take Portsmouth out of business. Hardly a surprise, 4x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 If that was our club, would really be thinking the same on here? I would have thought we would be organising a witch hunt to track him down and rip us his contract. Absolutely. It goes without saying that Pompey have been shambolicaly run but I'm baffled as to how anyone can defend an utter mediocrity like Ben Haim who has been paid millions throughout his career and as shown by his actions towards Pompey's fans, is a pretty despicable individual who is quite happy to close his current employers down. If he was the last man standing at BCFC I can't believe anyone on here would defend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 The Administratora always make sure they get paid first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hardly a surprise, 4x2 Really? The Administratora always make sure they get paid first. They don't need to make sure, hazy recollection of law courses remind me that they are a preferred creditor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Exactly, hence they always make sure they get paid. And it has often been known for a liquidated business to be stripped and sold at a price just enough to pay the administrators bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Absolutely. It goes without saying that Pompey have been shambolicaly run but I'm baffled as to how anyone can defend an utter mediocrity like Ben Haim who has been paid millions throughout his career and as shown by his actions towards Pompey's fans, is a pretty despicable individual who is quite happy to close his current employers down. If he was the last man standing at BCFC I can't believe anyone on here would defend him. I will defend his right to be paid what's owed to him, he signed a contract in good faith, the man is owed his wages. Not his fault if they go bust, and before anyone says it, if we were in the same position then I would say the same thing, hence the reason in more than happy to have SL lead our club for many more years to come . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I will defend his right to be paid what's owed to him, he signed a contract in good faith, the man is owed his wages. Not his fault if they go bust, and before anyone says it, if we were in the same position then I would say the same thing, hence the reason in more than happy to have SL lead our club for many more years to come . Here here. the bloke isn't a Portsmouth fan, he is doing what anyone would do if the didn't get paid. It matters not what he is paid, I am sure he has responsibilities that equate to his wages, just as anyone does. You live to your means, and pay insurance to cover yourself for redundancy. Ben haim has every right to take this stance. At the end of the day even if they go out of business, he is likely to forgo most of what is owed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbred Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I don't think they will close down on Friday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I don't think they will close down on Friday I don't think so either but it is getting tantalizingly too close for them. They must be quaking in their boots. Gotta feel sorry for the fans and the regular employees but nobody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Good to see the administrators getting their story in first and rubbishing the name of Ben Haim. Who's the bigger crook in all of this? Someone who has a legal contract to be paid or the other person who makes the decisions and ensures they get paid first. If pompey go to the wall it will not be the fault of Ben HAim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil78 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Absolutely. It goes without saying that Pompey have been shambolicaly run but I'm baffled as to how anyone can defend an utter mediocrity like Ben Haim who has been paid millions throughout his career and as shown by his actions towards Pompey's fans, is a pretty despicable individual who is quite happy to close his current employers down. If he was the last man standing at BCFC I can't believe anyone on here would defend him. Not the point, your simply falling for the Adminsitrators ploy which is to use the media to turn people on Ben Haim. As he's said, he's already written off £2m, he then agreed to right off another £1.5m and yet still the administrators are wanting him to write off more whilst they can still afford their massive fee. It's all relative, but it's still a massive amount of money he's written off already and the club still try to take the piss, if they go bust it won't be because of him, It will be due to former owners offering contracts they couldn't afford which had no fall back, and the new owners (who ironically are former owners) refusing to cover them. Ben Haim has done little wrong, he's helped more than many others have and written off more than many others would. Let them fold and do a Wimbledon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Good to see the administrators getting their story in first and rubbishing the name of Ben Haim. Who's the bigger crook in all of this? Someone who has a legal contract to be paid or the other person who makes the decisions and ensures they get paid first. If pompey go to the wall it will not be the fault of Ben HAim In the overall scheme of things that is correct but he will forever be considered the major catalyst for the fall when he had it in his power, regardless of the blame game, to prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Lewis Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Can't the administrators offer to forego their fee , in order to save Portsmouth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Can't the administrators offer to forego their fee , in order to save Portsmouth ? For one, why? that is what they do, for two I doubt their substantial fees will come anywhere near sufficient to save the club and, for three, it does not solve the underlying problem of trading insolvently because of the salaries of certain players alone exceeding the clubs revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lita For Congo Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Can't the administrators offer to forego their fee , in order to save Portsmouth ? Of course they can! But why would they? Little sympathy from me, the Kitson and Lawrence signings stunk at the time and it goes to show what a joke it was offering them contracts that size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Lewis Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 For one, why? that is what they do, for two I doubt their substantial fees will come anywhere near sufficient to save the club and, for three, it does not solve the underlying problem of trading insolvently because of the salaries of certain players alone exceeding the clubs revenue. I didn't expect anyone to take the suggestion seriously for gods sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Ben Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Agree 100% with Ben Haim. Pompey's last administrators, UHY Hacker Young, are a £38million creditor in this admin for money owed whilst administrators. Why on earth should he therefore forego his cash so PKF and Birch get paid. I can clear up the law on this... it's true that administrators always get paid first. Whatever cash is left in the business, or from selling assets the business owns, the administrators get first dibs. But that only makes sense... if not, who would be an administrator? With no guarantee of getting paid? Not me. And their fees are completely transparent and governed by a regulatory body... ie they simply can't rack up massive fees and sweep all the cash away. I'm not sure where the £38m comes from but it's definitely not Hacker Young's fees. (I have been involved in a massive admin of a UK high street chain - many times the size and complexity of Pompey's operations - and fees were a fraction of that.) I think that it might be cash owed to a former owner who made shareholder loans as part of the last restructuring, which the former administrator is chasing on his behalf... but I don't know. I can't remember the situation well enough. My take on the BH situation is... it's difficult. It's certainly not his fault that Pompey are in this mess. And I can understand his position if other players have got away more lightly, and if he's already made significant sacrifices. But if the new buyers have said that they will only come in on terms of x, and one of those terms is being rid of BH, then the administrators are in a tricky spot. It's not the case that there's an extra £300,000 lying around that they could use to pay him off if they wanted. There's no money left at all. So it's down to the potential acquirers and if they are willing to stump up more cash (and be assured that the administrators will also be negotiating with them to try to make this happen). In terms of the villification of BH for only wanting what he is owed, again it's difficult. At a football club, where emotions run high, exerting public pressure on BH is a sensible tactic. Shame him in to giving in. OK, you might say it's a bit on the dirty side... but if it saves the club at the expense of one man's shame, then so be it - that is just the administrator doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibbsyBCFC Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I can clear up the law on this... it's true that administrators always get paid first. Whatever cash is left in the business, or from selling assets the business owns, the administrators get first dibs. But that only makes sense... if not, who would be an administrator? With no guarantee of getting paid? Not me. And their fees are completely transparent and governed by a regulatory body... ie they simply can't rack up massive fees and sweep all the cash away. I'm not sure where the £38m comes from but it's definitely not Hacker Young's fees. (I have been involved in a massive admin of a UK high street chain - many times the size and complexity of Pompey's operations - and fees were a fraction of that.) I think that it might be cash owed to a former owner who made shareholder loans as part of the last restructuring, which the former administrator is chasing on his behalf... but I don't know. I can't remember the situation well enough. My take on the BH situation is... it's difficult. It's certainly not his fault that Pompey are in this mess. And I can understand his position if other players have got away more lightly, and if he's already made significant sacrifices. But if the new buyers have said that they will only come in on terms of x, and one of those terms is being rid of BH, then the administrators are in a tricky spot. It's not the case that there's an extra £300,000 lying around that they could use to pay him off if they wanted. There's no money left at all. So it's down to the potential acquirers and if they are willing to stump up more cash (and be assured that the administrators will also be negotiating with them to try to make this happen). In terms of the villification of BH for only wanting what he is owed, again it's difficult. At a football club, where emotions run high, exerting public pressure on BH is a sensible tactic. Shame him in to giving in. OK, you might say it's a bit on the dirty side... but if it saves the club at the expense of one man's shame, then so be it - that is just the administrator doing their job. Quite right. If the figures are in the article are right then Ben Haim has already lost £2 mil of c. £5.6mil that he should've been paid by now and is willing to waive £1.5 mil of the c. £1.8 mil remaining on his contract. You can't accuse him of not making any sacrifices. However I can still understand Pompey fans frustration. £36,000 x 52 x 3 = £5,616,000. This is what Ben Haim should've been paid over the last 3 years since signing in 2009. He is saying he's already lost £2 mil. If that's the case he has still grossed £3,616,000 over the last three years. Even if you assume nearly 50% of this has been lost in tax (which won't be the case as he'll have financial advisers / accountants helping him mitigate tax) that still nets down to £11,589 per week after tax over the last three years... earnings that your average Pompey fan trying to keep their head above the water in a recession simply can't relate to, especially as if he walks away he can net a juicy signing-on fee from a new employer and still probably command at leat £5k p/w after tax somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Quite right. If the figures are in the article are right then Ben Haim has already lost £2 mil of c. £5.6mil that he should've been paid by now and is willing to waive £1.5 mil of the c. £1.8 mil remaining on his contract. You can't accuse him of not making any sacrifices. However I can still understand Pompey fans frustration. £36,000 x 52 x 3 = £5,616,000. This is what Ben Haim should've been paid over the last 3 years since signing in 2009. He is saying he's already lost £2 mil. If that's the case he has still grossed £3,616,000 over the last three years. Even if you assume nearly 50% of this has been lost in tax (which won't be the case as he'll have financial advisers / accountants helping him mitigate tax) that still nets down to £11,589 per week after tax over the last three years... earnings that your average Pompey fan trying to keep their head above the water in a recession simply can't relate to, especially as if he walks away he can net a juicy signing-on fee from a new employer and still probably command at leat £5k p/w after tax somewhere. But when you earn more you spend more, you budget more, he is just the same as anyone else, he has budgeted x amount over x years, he hasn't got it. Yes it may seem silly money to us, but it is still money as a person you budget for, for your future spending, saving, repayments etc etc. How many millionaires have become bankrupt... too many to mention, So any argument saying he can afford to lose 2 million plus another 1.5 million is total poppycock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19192252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibbsyBCFC Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 But when you earn more you spend more, you budget more, he is just the same as anyone else, he has budgeted x amount over x years, he hasn't got it. Yes it may seem silly money to us, but it is still money as a person you budget for, for your future spending, saving, repayments etc etc. How many millionaires have become bankrupt... too many to mention, So any argument saying he can afford to lose 2 million plus another 1.5 million is total poppycock As a financial adviser myself, I completely agree with you I personally I don't think Ben Haim should be the scapegoat. He will have made plans against career threatening injuries or not being able to match his current contract when it ends but he shouldn't have to make plans for covering wages he is rightfully owed. I was just pointing out an alternative view that some fans may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 You can argue about the why's and where fors at Pompey all you like. The fact is that the club has been run in a dispicable manner and they're running out of options. If BH had done nothing to help then he'd be a villain but having already lost money he's offered to lose more and I have no doubt that those of the top (administrators aside as it's logical they get paid) will come out of it with their wallets intact I do wonder why Chanrai or the supporters group doesn't try and get the money together to bridge £300000 difference between BH offer and the administrators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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