herman Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 you have to wonder what the point of the academy and the under 21 set up is, when mcinnes and the board would rather sign a player on PL wages and fork out a loan fee, than give joe bryan a chance obviously it's a good signing, no complaints, but if you are going to make a point of refusing to develop young players then why bother spend all the money on the coaching reform etc. or is it a long term thing, and mcinnes is simply saying that the likes of bryan are not good enough, but the next generation may be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockwood gate Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 I must agree 100% with you on this, the only two players to really come through the academy is cole Skuse and joe Bryan is it worth it when the club is losing millions every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 With Cunningham out, Bryan is our only natural option down that side. The majority of your post is based on speculation you have created, you have no idea whether Elekobi will be straight into the team or whether he is here to provide cover during Cunningham's recovery. Typical knee-jerk reactionary stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastend 75 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 While I agree we should produce more through the academy IMO we need cover at left back and centre back as we all know u can't play Bryan for three months with no cover. Obviously del hasnt confidence in nyaclanger so that means only Bryan available if he gets injured Wat do we do play a right back there and as del has said he wants a balanced side playing players not in there natural position is not good . IMO great signing by del and I'm sure Bryan is in his plans . In del we trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinmad Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 I must agree 100% with you on this, the only two players to really come through the academy is cole Skuse and joe Bryan is it worth it when the club is losing millions every year what about J Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Such a huge overreaction, at joes young age we can't expect him to play every game for 3 months solid, he is not fully developed yet and this loan signing is for the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockwood gate Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 My comments are based over the last ten , how many players have come the academy in the last ten years not many , not on about this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tins Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 My comments are based over the last ten , how many players have come the academy in the last ten years not many , not on about this season But there is a major overhaul now and Del has brought it new coaches, set up etc. Give it a few years and we may have a very tidy academy on our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted September 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Such a huge overreaction, at joes young age we can't expect him to play every game for 3 months solid, he is not fully developed yet and this loan signing is for the best! there is a big difference between expecting someone to play every game, rotating young players in while sharing games with foster & nyatanga (if these players are not rated they should have been sold), and totally blocking young players from getting anywhere near the team who knows - mcinnes may still start bryan - but it certainly does seem to be another nail in the coffin for our finances and our youth development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Shock - An over reaction on OTIB! In all seriousness why would they close the academy? They are rebuilding it as it obviously has worked as well as it could in the past. Signing up new exciting talent and also bringing back Alex Russell to be in charge shows a great leap forward in my eyes, give it a couple of seasons and we will be bringing through talent by the bucket load. :fingerscrossed: Also, I may be wrong (and forgive me if I am) but didn't Dave Cotterill come through the academy system here? £2m not a bad return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 My comments are based over the last ten , how many players have come the academy in the last ten years not many , not on about this season So .... let me get this straight.... you say because the club have not been able to produce as many players as you would have expected in the last ten years, the answer is to close it ? If i have mis-understood that then apologies However if i have not... then how on earth can that be a credible solution the answer must be to improve what you have not abandon it completely. The U21s is a terrific move and gives the young players a natural opportunity to alongside professionals and on stadium pitches. It bridges the gap That's the first point Secondly if you have watched the 21s or the 18s this season (not sure if you have... again excuse me if you have) you cannot have failed to spot some outstanding young talent coming through, 17 year olds playing alongside Kilkenny for the 21s and co and getting results. please show some faith in Del The doc and Will, they are committed to bringing these players through, just have some patience.... in the meantime Del has to keep the club in the championship so that is a difficult balancing act... you cant keep everybody happy and get the results you need to survive. I think on Balance it was correct to sure up the defence.... what i dont know or cant judge is if the has signed the right player.... time will tell on all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 But there is a major overhaul now and Del has brought it new coaches, set up etc. Give it a few years and we may have a very tidy academy on our hands. Absolutely agree. Del has begun to prove what a good manager he is this season at City. The changes on the field have, in the main, been good. We’ve got to give him time with the academy and results won’t be seen for 2-3 years at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 My comments are based over the last ten , how many players have come the academy in the last ten years not many , not on about this season How many of those wonder kids we have at the academy have gone on to make it big in the game? We've just overhauled the entire coaching set up and you expect results 5 minutes later? Get real we won't see anyone for another 3 or 4 years yet We've had Matt hill Danny Coles Scott golbourne amankwaah cotts lita Dan jones(went to Man U) all sold for a profit I can list many more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Based upon products to date (the low numbers, not the individuals that have come through) it should be closed. But if changes have been made and these have begun to show signs of working as noted below then it gets a few more years to prove itself. Looking at results and the low compensation that other clubs have got for poached players (and we had for Liam Rosenior) I don't see it as a must-have any more; though I did see it like that when Scott set it up in 96. Secondly if you have watched the 21s or the 18s this season (not sure if you have... again excuse me if you have) you cannot have failed to spot some outstanding young talent coming through, 17 year olds playing alongside Kilkenny for the 21s and co and getting results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 The academy of old didn't produce anyone particularly outstanding but a few decent players have emerged from it. Think we'll need to give it 3-5 years of the new setup before it can be judged. I think the new setup should help bridge the gap between academy and first team, which has been part of the problem. You hear about promising young academy products, couple of years later and they sign as pros, 2 years later they have 1 or 2 token first team appearances then get released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hows this for a line up (okay no world beaters but decent players none the less) 1. Steve Phillips 2. Kevin Amankwaah 3. Christian Ribeiro 4. Matt Hill 5. Danny Coles 6. Tommy Doherty 7. Aaron Brown 8. Cole Skuse 9. Leroy Lita 10. David Cotterill 11. Scott Golbourne Not forgetting Louis Carey of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 To me the investment in and overhaul of the academy is a huge sign that DNC sees his time here as a long term project. He has brought in organisers and coaches that think his way and is using them to build an empire. The project will take time though and it's clear to him and us that there are deficiencies in certain areas at first team level. Signing Elokobi is one sign of that but the bringing in of signings to bolster the U21 squad shows how they are looking to pre-empt the same issues in the next generation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Bristol Red Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hows this for a line up (okay no world beaters but decent players none the less) 1. Steve Phillips 2. Kevin Amankwaah 3. Christian Ribeiro 4. Matt Hill 5. Danny Coles 6. Tommy Doherty 7. Aaron Brown 8. Cole Skuse 9. Leroy Lita 10. David Cotterill 11. Scott Golbourne Not forgetting Louis Carey of course! no henderson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 no henderson? Yeah sure. Forgot about him as he played about 3 games but better than Phillips for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted September 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yeah sure. Forgot about him as he played about 3 games but better than Phillips for sure! henderson came from villa and lita came from chelsea most of you seem to have ignored my initial point about whether mcinnes simply doesnt rate this generation of players, and the investment will begin to pay off in 2-3 years. but if that is the case, you may as well release bryan, reid, holloway etc since even if they did get a chance to play, a loan player would be brought in instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 A number of people seem to overlook that Joe Bryan is really a midfielder/winger who can fill in at full back rather than a full back. Also, our defence has been very leaky. Now as much as Joe Bryan may well go on to be a very good player, I don't think using him at full back in place of Cunningham right now is going to do any more than make a weak defence weaker. The academy needs to perform better for sure, but closing it is a terrible idea. It condemns us to perpetually having to pay money to other clubs for players and not making the most of local talent. It also isn't anywhere near as expensive as it was when first established, in fact I'd think it isn't far off having broke even in time when you consider the fees received for players that have come through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 henderson came from villa and lita came from chelsea most of you seem to have ignored my initial point about whether mcinnes simply doesnt rate this generation of players, and the investment will begin to pay off in 2-3 years. but if that is the case, you may as well release bryan, reid, holloway etc since even if they did get a chance to play, a loan player would be brought in instead Lita came from Chelsea at 16, he went through the academy and can be fairly considered an academy product. Henderson I think was 18 or 19 when signed though I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_red Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Neither Henderson or Phillips were products of the academy, Phillips was signed semi-pro and Henderson from Villa (if my memory is correct) whack in Lewis Carey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 lita came from chelsea Leroy Lita was released by Chelsea as a schoolboy. The only Academy he was ever contracted to as a trainee is Bristol City's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 henderson came from villa and lita came from chelsea most of you seem to have ignored my initial point about whether mcinnes simply doesnt rate this generation of players, and the investment will begin to pay off in 2-3 years. but if that is the case, you may as well release bryan, reid, holloway etc since even if they did get a chance to play, a loan player would be brought in instead out of this generation who could play first team championship/prem football I can count them on 3 fingers this generation has nothing to do with mcinnes but Coppel Millen and Johnson all guilty of not brining in coachs to correctly coach the youth team ie jobs for the lads, We have overhalled players like ried (19) Holloway (20) Edwards (21) Bryan (19) are not going to benefit are they? Its the next generation like Batton Gorden Karns Hall who are and we won't see them for another 3 years at least, Typical city fans want everything now not willing to wait...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderbeans Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Why close the academy? With all the new rules and set ups, it is the level of our academy that will determine the quality of players coming in and what we can produce them in to. Being that we are level 2 standard, the quality of our youth over the next few years will be far greater and even more so if we managed to get to a level 1 standard although that would mean providing on site accomodation for players like they have at the ajax academy. Academies are not short term hobbies, they take a while but give it a chance and in a few years we will bare the fruits of our labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl22 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 out of this generation who could play first team championship/prem football I can count them on 3 fingers this generation has nothing to do with mcinnes but Coppel Millen and Johnson all guilty of not brining in coachs to correctly coach the youth team ie jobs for the lads, We have overhalled players like ried (19) Holloway (20) Edwards (21) Bryan (19) are not going to benefit are they? Its the next generation like Batton Gorden Karns Hall who are and we won't see them for another 3 years at least, Typical city fans want everything now not willing to wait...... We also had 3 lads who played for Wales under 16s against France last week problem is not many people find out about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 We also had 3 lads who played for Wales under 16s against France last week problem is not many people find out about it. indeed we won't see them for a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Why close the academy? With all the new rules and set ups, it is the level of our academy that will determine the quality of players coming in and what we can produce them in to. Being that we are level 2 standard, the quality of our youth over the next few years will be far greater and even more so if we managed to get to a level 1 standard although that would mean providing on site accomodation for players like they have at the ajax academy. Academies are not short term hobbies, they take a while but give it a chance and in a few years we will bare the fruits of our labour well said pal Saturday just gone Ipswich 0-4 Bristol city U18s Ipswich unbeaten until then, tipped to win the u18 level 2 league this year.... i know results aren't everything at this stage but we do have some talent check out the team, a number of those lads then went on to play against Ipswich U21 on Monday..... guess what they won that as well !! 17 year old scoring the winner..... hmmmm so much crap written on this site at times it would be laughable if it was not so serious http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~2928553,00.html http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~2928627,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 well said pal Saturday just gone Ipswich 0-4 Bristol city U18s Ipswich unbeaten until then, tipped to win the u18 level 2 league this year.... i know results aren't everything at this stage but we do have some talent check out the team, a number of those lads then went on to play against Ipswich U21 on Monday..... guess what they won that as well !! 17 year old scoring the winner..... hmmmm so much crap written on this site at times it would be laughable if it was not so serious http://www.bcfc.co.u...2928553,00.html http://www.bcfc.co.u...2928627,00.html results don't matter and too much focus on getting results instead of devloping players let down acadmeys all over this country, Barca down't worry about results until Barca B level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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