biggythecity Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Reading the forum,firstly Fontaine and Pearson now Carey to blame. face it guys, were a side against wealthy teams like today from the prem,we will take a few years to turn into a promotion force and give del time he will do it,we are improving and will continue to,if ya cant take it go and support Man U,etc like the rest of them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 totally agree it was only Matt Mills and Afobe in that team that wasnt in the prem last year, take the opposition into mind, they have the fight to come back from goals down as they were goals down for most of there games last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderArmyy Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 still so annoying to be 2-0 up and **** it all up, in any league it's not acceptable although I do agree Bolton were a very good side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 They maybe a good side on paper, but the were below us before today, having lost their last 3, so confidence must have been as low as ours. So to give away a 2 goal lead against a team low on confidence, even away from home, I would say is a little worrying. Mental strength is a major issue with our team, and has been that way for the past 2-3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Reading the forum,firstly Fontaine and Pearson now Carey to blame. face it guys, were a side against wealthy teams like today from the prem,we will take a few years to turn into a promotion force and give del time he will do it,we are improving and will continue to,if ya cant take it go and support Man U,etc like the rest of them!!! Excuses, excuses and more excuses Bolton were below us before kick off and we were 2-0 up, the problem is this excuse can used when we lose to any team with a higher budget than us or a higher proportion of ex prem players and it dosen't cut any ice with me, let's be honest here it's all about the manner in which we lose and the reports seem to be we were lucky not to have been on the end of kicking and it seems also from reports the same failings of the past 5 years resurfaced once more and the usual suspects either played poorly or went missing and yet again the reports seem to criticise DMC's substitutions and not for the first time, the only saving grace seems to have been that the defence looked stronger but even that further highlighted what an absolutely shit midfield we have. I am a DMC fan but if he really does believe that we have the midfield talent at this club to kick on, my god we are in trouble, his preferred pairing appears to be Skuse and Elliott and that is failed pairing of 4 years standing, Skuse and Killkenny is powder puff and as bad as the Skuse/Little Lee pairing, Pearson seems to have 1 good game in 4 or 5 but maybe will get you the odd goal, Woolford it would appear is close to being back to square 1 and Albert can't be expected to be our saviour every week. As for the Cisse lobby let us not forget that he was also part of a largely failed midfield over a 2 year period as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 They maybe a good side on paper, but the were below us before today, having lost their last 3, so confidence must have been as low as ours. So to give away a 2 goal lead against a team low on confidence, even away from home, I would say is a little worrying. Mental strength is a major issue with our team, and has been that way for the past 2-3 years Totally agree. I would also question our physical attributes. It seems to me we are severely lacking in strength, overall physique and our fitness levels are nowhere near those under GJ early years. Take a look at few old videos and you'll see what l mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Excuses, excuses and more excuses Bolton were below us before kick off and we were 2-0 up, the problem is this excuse can used when we lose to any team with a higher budget than us or a higher proportion of ex prem players and it dosen't cut any ice with me, let's be honest here it's all about the manner in which we lose and the reports seem to be we were lucky not to have been on the end of kicking and it seems also from reports the same failings of the past 5 years resurfaced once more and the usual suspects either played poorly or went missing and yet again the reports seem to criticise DMC's substitutions and not for the first time, the only saving grace seems to have been that the defence looked stronger but even that further highlighted what an absolutely shit midfield we have. I am a DMC fan but if he really does believe that we have the midfield talent at this club to kick on, my god we are in trouble, his preferred pairing appears to be Skuse and Elliott and that is failed pairing of 4 years standing, Skuse and Killkenny is powder puff and as bad as the Skuse/Little Lee pairing, Pearson seems to have 1 good game in 4 or 5 but maybe will get you the odd goal, Woolford it would appear is close to being back to square 1 and Albert can't be expected to be our saviour every week. As for the Cisse lobby let us not forget that he was also part of a largely failed midfield over a 2 year period as well. Can't see anything in your post to disagree with...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Totally agree. I would also question our physical attributes. It seems to me we are severely lacking in strength, overall physique and our fitness levels are nowhere near those under GJ early years. Take a look at few old videos and you'll see what l mean. You could be right, We had physicality in all areas of the pitch with Johnson, we seem to be lacking in key areas this season, or those physical players are not played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggythecity Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 forums are all about opinions,im only a season ticket holder these days so do few away days being a family man who cant afford away games much so respect those who suffer away defeats,but although i agree some of the same problems are there, i would still say paste me this post in two years if im wrong..but give del a chance to gradually bring the right people in and good enough youth players and we will be challenging,been supporting for 30 years now and not many of those have been watched thinking were going to the top flight,keep the faith and be patient COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 forums are all about opinions,im only a season ticket holder these days so do few away days being a family man who cant afford away games much so respect those who suffer away defeats,but although i agree some of the same problems are there, i would still say paste me this post in two years if im wrong..but give del a chance to gradually bring the right people in and good enough youth players and we will be challenging,been supporting for 30 years now and not many of those have been watched thinking were going to the top flight,keep the faith and be patient COYR Don't disagree with a word Bud, but it has to be said DMC is now the 3rd manager who seems to believe that our midfielders are actually fit for purpose and that is a worry it really is, he has brought Pearson and Millen brought in Killkenny and neither have improved our still piss poor midfield and I cannot see anything other than a struggle if this allowed to continue, as a season ticket holder apart from a couple very good wins this season, when was the last time you can remember when our midfield completely dominated a game in the way it would appear Bolton did today?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldlandReddies Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Dont know how we were 2-0 up as Bolton completely dominated early possession and those were virtually the only two touches we had in their box in the first half ! If we could have held on until half time then I think we may have got something from the game but Eagles brilliant Free Kick gave them the momentum going into the 2nd half. They piled the pressure on straight away and were always going to equalize. However, from that point on I thought City played much better and could easily have scored a couple themselves after the winner with Baldock and particularly Taylor both missing gilt-edged unmarked headers. Overall we did defend much better as a team against a strong side and McManus did make a big difference. Tuesday is a huge game for us now and I will be expecting 3 points against a 'weaker' team. Lose that one and even my positive nature may be tested ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 to answer the title Lee Johnson, Martyn Woolford and now Liam Fontaine and of course the Nimbys and the Evil Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Dont know how we were 2-0 up as Bolton completely dominated early possession and those were virtually the only two touches we had in their box in the first half ! If we could have held on until half time then I think we may have got something from the game but Eagles brilliant Free Kick gave them the momentum going into the 2nd half. They piled the pressure on straight away and were always going to equalize. However, from that point on I thought City played much better and could easily have scored a couple themselves after the winner with Baldock and particularly Taylor both missing gilt-edged unmarked headers. Overall we did defend much better as a team against a strong side and McManus did make a big difference. Tuesday is a huge game for us now and I will be expecting 3 points against a 'weaker' team. Lose that one and even my positive nature may be tested ! Oldland you were clearly at the game. It was EXACTLY as you described. We could have got something from the game but probs didn't deserve to, Bolton were better. If the FA would give us 23 Million, we would probably have a good team. Parachute payments skew the Championship hugely, what chance do us 'little' teams have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderArmyy Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Dont know how we were 2-0 up as Bolton completely dominated early possession and those were virtually the only two touches we had in their box in the first half ! If we could have held on until half time then I think we may have got something from the game but Eagles brilliant Free Kick gave them the momentum going into the 2nd half. They piled the pressure on straight away and were always going to equalize. However, from that point on I thought City played much better and could easily have scored a couple themselves after the winner with Baldock and particularly Taylor both missing gilt-edged unmarked headers. Overall we did defend much better as a team against a strong side and McManus did make a big difference. Tuesday is a huge game for us now and I will be expecting 3 points against a 'weaker' team. Lose that one and even my positive nature may be tested ! Well they have one of the deadliest strikers in the country on current form, so will not be easy by any means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggythecity Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 totally respect the comment about midfield esmond and agree,just saying we need pulling apart bit by bit and cant afford to do it overnight,hope del can and believe he can,just feel he knows what he is doing and will address it bit by bit and keep us up and hopefully competitive while hes doing it,do agree with a comment i read the other day from that orrible' man Pulis wen he took over,it takes 3 years to build a winning team..and look what hes done given time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldlandReddies Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Well they have one of the deadliest strikers in the country on current form, so will not be easy by any means Agreed, didn't say it was going to be easy ! City & Burnley have virtually identical goals for/against so we could be in for another goal fest at the gate ! It really is a game we should be looking to win though as we have similar strength squads, we are at home and we have done quite well against them in recent years. I'm expecting 3 points, just hope the City players have read the script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 reading there forum they say how they shouldnt get caried away with a win over 'Bristol' as to say it was already a win before the game was played. Parachute payments either get you up or **** you up just look at middlesborough the amount of money they spent on wages in there first season back down expecting to go straight back up then no one wanted to leave as they were on high wages (sounds like a team close to my heart) or it can be perfect because you can bring in or keep quality players and go straight back up West Ham, Newcastle and West Brom are prime examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Just saw the goals on the football league show... first bolton goal not much anyone can do about second bolton goal was well worked from them, maybe skuse could have tracked his runner but realistically just a good run from spearing THIRD bolton goal was entirely Fontaines fault for being lazy and not tracking his man... So frustrating watching it thinking if he had just made the effort to stick with petrov we could be satisfied with a draw. It also shows that the first 2 goals they scored didn't really come from city mistakes, just an almost Premier League side playing in the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfctim Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Just saw the goals on the football league show... first bolton goal not much anyone can do about second bolton goal was well worked from them, maybe skuse could have tracked his runner but realistically just a good run from spearing THIRD bolton goal was entirely Fontaines fault for being lazy and not tracking his man... So frustrating watching it thinking if he had just made the effort to stick with petrov we could be satisfied with a draw. It also shows that the first 2 goals they scored didn't really come from city mistakes, just an almost Premier League side playing in the championship. 1st goal nothing we could do. 2nd goal Carey ran out blindly at Davies for no apparent reason leaving his man completely free in the box. 3rd goal agree, fontaine at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 1st goal nothing we could do. 2nd goal Carey ran out blindly at Davies for no apparent reason leaving his man completely free in the box. 3rd goal agree, fontaine at fault. Well i kind of agree about the second but i'm not sure... if you watch it slowly you see that a man was just in front of carey so he went to stop the pass to him, meanwhile foster came across to cover spearing but it was all too fast. If you had to blame someone it would be Carey but its not as much of an easy blame as the third I think you'll agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well i kind of agree about the second but i'm not sure... if you watch it slowly you see that a man was just in front of carey so he went to stop the pass to him, meanwhile foster came across to cover spearing but it was all too fast. If you had to blame someone it would be Carey but its not as much of an easy blame as the third I think you'll agree I would blame our central midfielder who let the bloke go past him with such ease it was untrue to set up the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 3rd goal you could blame fonts, but remember all game petrov played on the other wing and just popped up on the other side for just that moment. Why is petrov not picked up? Who is telling our defence they've loaded there right side? Why have our midfield not tracked his run or picked up on the player petrov plays one two with? These 3 points need to be looked at and as most games away from home, players just waltz through our midfield unmarked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfctim Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 The thing is Petrov was picked up by Fontaine but after he played the pass he ran on leaving Fontaine ambling back in his wake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1984 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 1st goal nothing we could do. 2nd goal Carey ran out blindly at Davies for no apparent reason leaving his man completely free in the box. 3rd goal agree, fontaine at fault. Sorry i cannot agree with the first goal summary. I was right behind it and said to my mate before he shot it was going straight through the gap in the wall. For some reason carey felt the need to stand two yards away from the rest of the city players. About time they took some responsability for their shit performances. Wd are a micky mouse team at the moment and it aint going to change any time soon. as it stands i would day we are 5 players short of a decent starting 11 and with a seriously naieve and tactically inept manager who for some reason just cant stand dropping his golden boys woolford,pearson and fontaine. All been on a shit run of form and yet they all still in the team. Why sign anderson,morris and joe bryan and never play them. We are on for a long frustraiting season as things stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 I think we can all agree that if we had conceded one goal we would have won, two and we would have drawn but three made us lose..This naturally leads us to analyse each of the goals conceded, to apportion blame of each and to speculate that a different player may have done something different and avoided any one of the goals. This course of analysis carries the added benefit that everyone can participate having seen the goals on television - you don't need to have been there! Unfortunately this is Bad Science as it completely ignores the events of the other 87 minutes (including the two in which we scored!) in which we did not concede goals and the efforts of the castigated players during those minutes which prevented a cricket score. It is a rare goal that could not have been prevented by a different decision or action and football is in essence a percentage game. Although there are many exceptions, the better side usually wins. The more you have the ball, the more you attack - the more you attack the more likely the opposition will make a defensive mistake - the more the opposition makes defensive mistakes the more meaningful strikes you will manage and the more meaningful strikes the more goals you will score. The harder the defence has to work the more often it will be found wanting. Away from home this season: Forest - a poor game with few chances which Forest marginally shaded - one mistake - one goal - defeat Barnsley - comprehensively outplayed for 45 minutes - fortunate to concede only one - put up a fight against ten men but could not score - defeat Peterboro - a truly awful side who we matched for the first 45 - injury forced DM to bring on our (mysteriously dropped) best player who turned the game in our favour - still conceded thanks to weak referee and appalling opposition tactics - victory Watford - a marvelous game - gave as good as we got BUT Watford still could have been out of sight in the first 30 minutes - a well-earned point when we could easily have lost Leicester - match conceded before the first whistle - defended for 90 minutes - some credit due for score being so low - we were so s--t it was unbelievable - defeat Bolton - 10 minutes - 2 attacks - 2:0 up - total surrender and wait for the inevitable - everyone could see what was going to happen but manager sits on his hands until 2:2 - and then he takes off the goal scorer??? - defeat 4 points from 18 - 10 goals conceded in 9 hours of football (not that bad) - on top for 2 halves, even for five halves, under the cosh for five halves - in my opinion the results achieved have fairly reflected the balance of play - this is not evidence of poor defending or even poor attacking. Unless we play better, retain possession and attack more effectively results will not improve whoever plays at the back and at home Crystal Palace - sparkling - note that neither Baldock nor Davies started the game - won Cardiff - even better - note that neither Baldock nor Davies started the game - won Blackburn - great game - lost it going for the win - could have gained a point perhaps Leeds - both sides flattered by five goals - a nil-nil draw would have been a better reflection of the quality on show - could have gained a point perhaps Millwall - draw a fair result but Millwall will feel they had the better chances On this analysis - poor defending has not cost us more than 2 of 8 points dropped at home and 1 of those was the product of chasing a win which can happen to the best sides. The defence will make fewer mistakes when (and only when) it has fewer opportunities to make them - from Barnet to Barcelona this rule holds true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Sorry I really have to say having seen their 2nd and 3rd goals on several occasions now and on neither of them will you see any sign of close marking, any sign of picking any of the runners and you certainly will not see a tackle, they are just symptomatic of past 4 or 5 seasons, we have no spine or organisation whatsoever in midfield, we totally lack a football brain in midfield who can organise and put players into positions, hopefully we now have that at the back but are sadly lacking this quality in midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Sorry I really have to say having seen their 2nd and 3rd goals on several occasions now and on neither of them will you see any sign of close marking, any sign of picking any of the runners and you certainly will not see a tackle, they are just symptomatic of past 4 or 5 seasons, we have no spine or organisation whatsoever in midfield, we totally lack a football brain in midfield who can organise and put players into positions, hopefully we now have that at the back but are sadly lacking this quality in midfield. Just seen the goals , mmmm , absolutely shocking. Their second goal , I dont even know where to start so I'll start with Skuse. Powder puff , needs to be closer to Davies or bring him down in the middle of the pitch*. Once Davies goes past Skuse neither him or Pearson make any attempt to chase back. Skuse gets caught ball watching and allows Spearing to run in behind , Albert , who can see the run makes no attempt to chase him back. McManus jockeys Davies rather than make a tackle. It's Kevin Davies FFS , he's hardly going to do a step over and skin you for pace. Fontaine makes no attempt to cover round the back either. Looks a team of schoolboys to be honest. The 3rd goal is reasonably well worked but Fontaine just stops when Petrov lays the ball off and makes a late half arsed attempt to chase him back and again McManus made no real attempt at tackling the Korean lad who played the ball back into Petrov. Might be a bit harsh on McManus as it was his first game and he had picked up a knock , but having watched that , I've absolutely no idea who to choose at the back or in midfield on tuesday night , because on that showing , none of them deserve to be picked. Possible back 4 of Wilson , Wilson , McManus and Bryan but that might be too much chopping and changing? Morris into midfield to add some bite? F'd if I know , who'd be a manager eh !! * Why do we never do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfctim Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 I wasn't at the game but listening on the radio it didn't sound like the defence was too bad in all fairness. Sounded like Mcmanus had a good game and it seemed like Fontaine had a good game as well (excluding their 3rd goal), particuarly in the first half making lots of interceptions and dealing with eagles reasonably well. Carey had a difficult afternoon against Davies conceding lots of fouls but as i said in another thread Davies has done that to the best CBs in the country for the last decade. The main problem and where the blame lay for me was in midfield not defence - they had a lot of the ball but created few real chances especially in the first half. In our defence it can be said that we were up against essentially a premier league midfield: Petrov, M. Davies, Spearing, Eagles. But that's been Bolton's team for the whole season so far and they were below us at the start of play. So that just shows the quality of the championship that that midfield have been matched or bettered for much of this season by their opponents, and also shows that our midfield are clearly a level below what is commonplace in this division. It was the same against Blackburn, the excuse was they had a premier league team on paper, but they subsequently went on a poor run of form, outplayed by Barnsley the very next Tuesday. It is clearly not good enough and is an area we need to improve in if we have ambitions above a relegation scrap in the next few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 I culd see there Prem expierence as in the second half all it was is pass and move and we just couldnt handle it as we didnt know who to pick up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 I culd see there Prem expierence as in the second half all it was is pass and move and we just couldnt handle it as we didnt know who to pick up We allow teams far too much space in midfield, we back off and back off until the inevitable happens, in fact I have never seen a side that backs off so much, we don't tackle enough when we are attacked, we are not aware so fail to pick up runners, our marking is slack, we allow attackers to turn far too easily, we allow wide men to chose the inside or outside channel, teams just play through us, in short we do not possess a leader in midfield who can organise the aforementioned and get players in to appropriate positions, a player who can break up play, put his foot on the ball and slow things down, take the sting out of the game and play pressure releasing balls to our front men who as games go on have to feed off of desperate hoofs upfield, that player is not at the club and is not Cisse. All of the midfield failings described is the reason our defence is so nervous, because they are constantly under pressure, with little or no help from a serially bad midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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