Bristol?

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Just looked at the league tables and both teams in Bristol could be bottom of there leagues. (WE ARE IN A BETTER LEAGUE SO WE HAVE AN EXCISE BUT BARCA OF LEAGUE TWO)

Anyway this just shows why Bristol needs a kick in backside 2 new stadiums and more money being spent on the playing squad.

I honestly wouldn't mind if sags get promoted as long as they are behind us I couldn't give a ****.

With Exeter in L2 as well what good is going on in the west country? and what improvements should be made in Bristol?

[Sidebet]

Who are exeter??

Gas promoted?

Awfull post

[Guest]

If you think things are bad here you can always look across town to see how bad it will never be on the redside.

[DaveF]

I'd quite like to see us top of them prem with the gas sitting in second

[Roger Red Hat]

Bin us and the gas, start again with one team everybody can get behind. There'll never be a sustainable successful side in Bristol as long as there's 2 teams.

[poland_red]

Just looked at the league tables and both teams in Bristol could be bottom of there leagues. (WE ARE IN A BETTER LEAGUE SO WE HAVE AN EXCISE BUT BARCA OF LEAGUE TWO)

Anyway this just shows why Bristol needs a kick in backside 2 new stadiums and more money being spent on the playing squad.

I honestly wouldn't mind if sags get promoted as long as they are behind us I couldn't give a ****.

With Exeter in L2 as well what good is going on in the west country? and what improvements should be made in Bristol?

I don't understand why both bristol teams being crap is a sign we need new stadiums? whatever you've taken, i'd love a bit please. I know, we're bottom of the league and getting crowds of 13,000. solution - build a 30,000 seater stadium.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

its just a sign of quickly this city is moving backwards a new stadium might increase ticket sales Brighton fill out there stadium and encourage more people from UWE and local football teams to come along and watch.

I believe it would be better for the city as a whole if the sags get promoted but as long as they never come anywhere near us I'm fine.

If you go out round bristol the amount of prem shirts you see is remarkable considering we a just a level below and the championship is the in the top 10 most ppopular leagues in the world. That fact is from Football Manager but it is still a high quality league. I would rather see someone in a rovers shirt then someone in a Chelsea shirt. That's my opinion anyway

[Rich]

I don't understand why both bristol teams being crap is a sign we need new stadiums? whatever you've taken, i'd love a bit please. I know, we're bottom of the league and getting crowds of 13,000. solution - build a 30,000 seater stadium.

Crap shop, poor goods, few customers, low profits, low esteem poor outlook.

What can I do says the shopkeeper?

I know, I'll build a new store with better facilities, try to improve my goods and hopefully attract more customers and bring back lost customers.

It's called speculating to accumilate.

[poland_red]

its just a sign of quickly this city is moving backwards a new stadium might increase ticket sales Brighton fill out there stadium and encourage more people from UWE and local football teams to come along and watch.

I believe it would be better for the city as a whole if the sags get promoted but as long as they never come anywhere near us I'm fine.

If you go out round bristol the amount of prem shirts you see is remarkable considering we a just a level below and the championship is the in the top 10 most ppopular leagues in the world. That fact is from Football Manager but it is still a high quality league. I would rather see someone in a rovers shirt then someone in a Chelsea shirt. That's my opinion anyway

i) the phrase 'might increase ticket sales' is telling. so, bit of a gamble. has a new stadium done coventry any good? new stadiums attract new support in the short term. In the long term crowds balance out to reflect the success of the team. having a new stadium is no guarantee of success, it'll be interesting to see where brighton are in five years time.

ii) while I like football manager myself, best not to base real life judgements on a computer game, don't you think?

iii) why do you find it remarkable that you see more shirts of successful teams than shit teams walking around bristol?

I'm not having an unreasonable pop btw, just find your arguments short sighted and based on hope and conjecture. to lose our historical home on that basis just doesn't make much sense to me.

[poland_red]

Crap shop, poor goods, few customers, low profits, low esteem poor outlook.

What can I do says the shopkeeper?

I know, I'll build a new store with better facilities, try to improve my goods and hopefully attract more customers and bring back lost customers.

It's called speculating to accumilate.

thanks for the business lesson. firstly, football can't be compared to any other industry in the world, it's unique in that respect. speculate to accumulate? go for it, don't drag my club down with you it's speculating to accumulate that has brought leeds, portsmouth, hearts and countless others within a whisker of extinction.

[Rich]

thanks for the business lesson. firstly, football can't be compared to any other industry in the world, it's unique in that respect. speculate to accumulate? go for it, don't drag my club down with you it's speculating to accumulate that has brought leeds, portsmouth, hearts and countless others within a whisker of extinction.

Sorry, I thought it was my club .

I wasn't giving you a business lesson, just giving an example of how other things work, speculation is the same in any business, especially the entertainment business. Why bother building an arena. Bit tetchy aint we?

None of those clubs you use as an analogy, have built new grounds, they have merely invested heavily in players and wages without having the infrastructure to provide extra revenue to support that investment.

On the other hand, Reading, Swansea, Wigan, Sunderland, Middlesborough, Cardiff, Wigan, Brighton, Arsenal, Man City, Bolton, Coventry, are all clubs which have invested in new stadia and generally speaking have all faired better because of it.

I'm sure there are some examples of poor decisions taken when building new grounds but, I'm of the opinion that it would improve our long term chances of greater success.

If we don't build a new ground, which is being funded by different sources, someone will have to pay out to redevelop AG, (at some point) and it still won't provide the same facilities which are designed to increase non matchday revenue.

If someone came up with a plan to develop AG up to 30,000, that didn't cost the earth, didn't lose revenue during building and offered the other facilities, then I'd be all for it. I love AG.

[Portland Bill]

Bin us and the gas, start again with one team everybody can get behind. There'll never be a sustainable successful side in Bristol as long as there's 2 teams.

If any if us wanted success we wouldn't have bothered to support City in the first place.

We could have just done what every other soulless west country football fan does....support a North West or London team!

But....at least we have pride in ourselves.

[marshy]

thanks for the business lesson. firstly, football can't be compared to any other industry in the world, it's unique in that respect. speculate to accumulate? go for it, don't drag my club down with you it's speculating to accumulate that has brought leeds, portsmouth, hearts and countless others within a whisker of extinction.

Who exactly are these 'countless others' ?

[glynriley]

Who exactly are these 'countless others' ?

Hull , QPR , Port Vale , Darlington , Southampton , Halifax , Rotherham , Bradford , Notts County , Leicester , Derby , Wrexham , Ipswich , Wimbledon ,Cambridge , Leeds , Boston , Luton , Bournemouth , Stockport , Crystal Palace , Plymouth , Rushden and Diamonds ,Chester , Crawley.

That's just in the last 10 years , a list of clubs who have entred administration. I'm sure there are a few more as well.

[glynriley]

Who exactly are these 'countless others' ?

dp

[Roger Red Hat]

If any if us wanted success we wouldn't have bothered to support City in the first place.

We could have just done what every other soulless west country football fan does....support a North West or London team!

But....at least we have pride in ourselves.

You don't want success? You don't want to be able to watch your home town compete with the best on a regular basis? My my, what a strange chap.

If you read my post you'll see that I wasn't advocating supporting a team from outside Bristol. I'd like to watch top flight football on a regular basis in my home town and I don't believe it will happen whilst there are 2 teams here, maybe in the past, but not now.

[BrizzleRed]

thanks for the business lesson. firstly, football can't be compared to any other industry in the world, it's unique in that respect. speculate to accumulate? go for it, don't drag my club down with you it's speculating to accumulate that has brought leeds, portsmouth, hearts and countless others within a whisker of extinction.

Sorry but have you ever considered that Leeds and Portsmouth both still have old stadiums, so could have been part of their problems?

This argument keeps coming up about why do City want a 30,000 capacity stadium, but that point is usually raised by the general public, not someone who supports the club.

For the umpteenth time, the capacity is largely irrelevant, it's the earning capacity on both matchdays and non matchdays that the club are after with a new stadium. We have precisely zero corporate boxes or worthwhile conference facilities and whether we like it or not, these are things that bring far bigger revenue into clubs and therefore makes them more sustainable.

I love the Gate for all the memories but the facilities are piss poor and that's being generous. We HAVE to move,because the cost of redeveloping AG would be at least double and we'd still have to make compromises.

I think it's becoming clear that unless things start moving with the new ground soon, we're going to find ourselves being dragged back to League 1 where we've struggled so far to escape from and that is something we've really got to avoid.

You need money to compete in the Championship and with the new financial restrictions coming in, we just can't rely on SL to bail us out any more, we've got to generate the money ourselves.

[poland_red]

If any if us wanted success we wouldn't have bothered to support City in the first place.

We could have just done what every other soulless west country football fan does....support a North West or London team!

But....at least we have pride in ourselves.

there's so much i wanted to add to this post, and then realized nah, that last line said it all. cider your way

[havanatopia]

With Exeter in L2 as well what good is going on in the west country?

Forest Green Rovers will soon be in the Football League... defined as local if not strictly west country. Thats a bit of good news. Rovers v Rovers next season.. should be a de facto City v Rovers derby that one... lets fill the Lawn.

[CamBCFC]

Forest Green Rovers will soon be in the Football League... defined as local if not strictly west country. Thats a bit of good news. Rovers v Rovers next season.. should be a de facto City v Rovers derby that one... lets fill the Lawn.

FGR wont be promoted this season

[poland_red]

Sorry but have you ever considered that Leeds and Portsmouth both still have old stadiums, so could have been part of their problems?

This argument keeps coming up about why do City want a 30,000 capacity stadium, but that point is usually raised by the general public, not someone who supports the club.

For the umpteenth time, the capacity is largely irrelevant, it's the earning capacity on both matchdays and non matchdays that the club are after with a new stadium. We have precisely zero corporate boxes or worthwhile conference facilities and whether we like it or not, these are things that bring far bigger revenue into clubs and therefore makes them more sustainable.

I love the Gate for all the memories but the facilities are piss poor and that's being generous. We HAVE to move,because the cost of redeveloping AG would be at least double and we'd still have to make compromises.

I think it's becoming clear that unless things start moving with the new ground soon, we're going to find ourselves being dragged back to League 1 where we've struggled so far to escape from and that is something we've really got to avoid.

You need money to compete in the Championship and with the new financial restrictions coming in, we just can't rely on SL to bail us out any more, we've got to generate the money ourselves.

in the case of both Leeds and Portsmouth was clearly not a case of a new stadium, but the gung ho attitude Rich believes we should take. which is a very smart if you are in a bottomless pit of dollars which is a situation that applies to 0.01% of football (stat made up, not referring to football manager).

and sorry, capacity does count. earning capacity through boxes etc, ain't going to be much if we're still crap. do you think these boxes are going to go like hotcakes? I'd rather see 13,000 in Ashton Gate than 13,000 in Ashton Vale and five boxes filled. And do remember that Luton was one of the first sides that had boxes. Done them a lot of good has it?

[poland_red]

Sorry but have you ever considered that Leeds and Portsmouth both still have old stadiums, so could have been part of their problems?

This argument keeps coming up about why do City want a 30,000 capacity stadium, but that point is usually raised by the general public, not someone who supports the club.

For the umpteenth time, the capacity is largely irrelevant, it's the earning capacity on both matchdays and non matchdays that the club are after with a new stadium. We have precisely zero corporate boxes or worthwhile conference facilities and whether we like it or not, these are things that bring far bigger revenue into clubs and therefore makes them more sustainable.

I love the Gate for all the memories but the facilities are piss poor and that's being generous. We HAVE to move,because the cost of redeveloping AG would be at least double and we'd still have to make compromises.

I think it's becoming clear that unless things start moving with the new ground soon, we're going to find ourselves being dragged back to League 1 where we've struggled so far to escape from and that is something we've really got to avoid.

You need money to compete in the Championship and with the new financial restrictions coming in, we just can't rely on SL to bail us out any more, we've got to generate the money ourselves.

and on top of that, I hate when people start backing up their arguments with words such as 'sustainability'. or using shop keeper analogies. the club is dying on it's arse as it is, without getting corporate. sod it, let's get a new stadium, and let's get a new colour like cardiff. nah, i'm not buying into that, fair play if you do, but I'd rather have a long, lingering panic. When I signed up to be city, it had nothing to do with success. It was about being city.

[havanatopia]

FGR wont be promoted this season

Everything is in place ready for it to happen. No reason why not.

[marshy]

Hull , QPR , Port Vale , Darlington , Southampton , Halifax , Rotherham , Bradford , Notts County , Leicester , Derby , Wrexham , Ipswich , Wimbledon ,Cambridge , Leeds , Boston , Luton , Bournemouth , Stockport , Crystal Palace , Plymouth , Rushden and Diamonds ,Chester , Crawley.

That's just in the last 10 years , a list of clubs who have entred administration. I'm sure there are a few more as well.

Thanks for the list. That's twenty-five, hardly 'countless'. Not a disaster is it this 'going into administration'. They're all still around and a few doing at least as well as before.

[glynriley]

Thanks for the list. That's twenty-five, hardly 'countless'. Not a disaster is it this 'going into administration'. They're all still around and a few doing at least as well as before.

Chester & Rushden & Diamonds aren't !!

Neither are Farsley Celtic (They weren't on the list) who were disolved in 2010 , but of course , they were never a league club.

[TRL]

Thanks for the list. That's twenty-five, hardly 'countless'. Not a disaster is it this 'going into administration'. They're all still around and a few doing at least as well as before.

A few are now non league and haven't come back. 25 out of 92 is over quater of clubs, that I would say, was pretty Damn substantial!

[Northampton Red]

FGR wont be promoted this season

Are you in possession of a sports almanac from the future?

[Timbo7]

Speculating to Accumulate?

At the risk of being boring or appearing a NIMBY, consider some inconvenient truths

SL and KD continue to "speculate" or "invest" in excess of £10M per annum and have accumulated no more than a much bigger drain on their wealth than they started with.

SL suggests that he may "speculate" or "invest" a further £90M in developing a new stadium - it is not known whether he expects to obtain any return on this "investment" or whether it will simply be a no-strings gift

Many have been convinced that the new stadium will (automatically?) change Bristol City into a viable and successful business, some even saying that capacity/attendance is not the vital factor.

Looking at numbers

1/ If the new stadium is filled every week then additional ticket revenue will be approximately: 30,000 - 13,000 currently = 17,000 additional tickets sold - at £20/game average x 23 games = £7.8M/year

2/ If the new stadium includes 100 executive boxes which are all sold at £25,000 each (a 10 seat box at Sunderland costs £22,500 per season) = £2.5M/year

3/ If the new stadium includes facilities for other events (conference, hotel etc.) valued at £45M (i.e. equivalent facilities without the inclusion of a football stadium) then at a yield of 5% (which is considered strong in the current economic climate and hence would prompt speculators to develop such a facility if the market is there) would amount to £2.25M

So the maximum additional revenue which could be generated from the new stadium running at capacity on all fronts would be £12.55M/year.

Put another way

If a new stadium can generate a 130% increase in attendance, we can sell executive boxes at mediocre Premier League prices and we can generate a market for business conferences and the like which doesn't currently exist (if it did other speculators would already be spending up to £45M elsewhere to tap it) AND SL or others are prepared to gift £90M to club without strings THEN Bristol City could not only break even but could increase the budget for playing staff by as much as 7%.

Of course, in many ways spending £90M once might be more attractive to SL/KD than spending £12M every year BUT we will need another plan to keep 17,000 new supporters happy.

In truth the new stadium plan is a nonsense unless it is connected with promotion to and survival in the Premier League - it cannot in itself enable this to be achieved BUT will be an essential part (but not the most challenging part) in achieving it.

[Roger Red Hat]

Speculating to Accumulate?

At the risk of being boring or appearing a NIMBY, consider some inconvenient truths

SL and KD continue to "speculate" or "invest" in excess of £10M per annum and have accumulated no more than a much bigger drain on their wealth than they started with.

SL suggests that he may "speculate" or "invest" a further £90M in developing a new stadium - it is not known whether he expects to obtain any return on this "investment" or whether it will simply be a no-strings gift

Many have been convinced that the new stadium will (automatically?) change Bristol City into a viable and successful business, some even saying that capacity/attendance is not the vital factor.

Looking at numbers

1/ If the new stadium is filled every week then additional ticket revenue will be approximately: 30,000 - 13,000 currently = 17,000 additional tickets sold - at £20/game average x 23 games = £7.8M/year

2/ If the new stadium includes 100 executive boxes which are all sold at £25,000 each (a 10 seat box at Sunderland costs £22,500 per season) = £2.5M/year

3/ If the new stadium includes facilities for other events (conference, hotel etc.) valued at £45M (i.e. equivalent facilities without the inclusion of a football stadium) then at a yield of 5% (which is considered strong in the current economic climate and hence would prompt speculators to develop such a facility if the market is there) would amount to £2.25M

So the maximum additional revenue which could be generated from the new stadium running at capacity on all fronts would be £12.55M/year.

Put another way

If a new stadium can generate a 130% increase in attendance, we can sell executive boxes at mediocre Premier League prices and we can generate a market for business conferences and the like which doesn't currently exist (if it did other speculators would already be spending up to £45M elsewhere to tap it) AND SL or others are prepared to gift £90M to club without strings THEN Bristol City could not only break even but could increase the budget for playing staff by as much as 7%.

Of course, in many ways spending £90M once might be more attractive to SL/KD than spending £12M every year BUT we will need another plan to keep 17,000 new supporters happy.

In truth the new stadium plan is a nonsense unless it is connected with promotion to and survival in the Premier League - it cannot in itself enable this to be achieved BUT will be an essential part (but not the most challenging part) in achieving it.

I agree. Until there is a successful team, people wont come and watch. People in the area DO come and watch when the team is doing well, although the amount of 'false dawns' has affected people's belief, i.e."we've seen it all before".