Is This The Right Time To Be Trying To Move Grounds?

[Rich]

Guys, leave this one well alone, not fishing, this guy is a pro, they will pick and choose, same as it always was, no more posts, no more targets...worse than a crap evil post reporter, dunno why i feel this way but i dont feel good about the OP, cant explain, gut feeling, scuse me ta ta

I also have my concerns about the intention of this post. The opposition will do anything in their power to undermine the stadium plans, I think they are genuinely worried about the new Inspection and will try to weasle out the few discenting voices there are towards the new stadium.

For some unknown reason we as a club are still being naieve in openly discussing this issue, the opposition will take a straw poll of posters and use that as ammunition for their cause, even if it's them that are producing the posts, which they have done in the past.

[del ete]

I also have my concerns about the intention of this post. The opposition will do anything in their power to undermine the stadium plans, I think they are genuinely worried about the new Inspection and will try to weasle out the few discenting voices there are towards the new stadium.

For some unknown reason we as a club are still being naieve in openly discussing this issue, the opposition will take a straw poll of posters and use that as ammunition for their cause, even if it's them that are producing the posts, which they have done in the past.

I said in another thread that since the news regarding the new VG inspection has come out there have been a fair few posts from "new(ish)" members of the forum who I had not previously noticed much of. Very suspiscous as we know exactly what lengths the Nimbys will go to try and disrupt things.

I think that these stadium conversations should be moved back into the relevent section again. I wonder if these new posters will suddenly make a quick number of posts to gain access to the stadium section...

[Fat Cigar]

@Kingswood mask and @Rich: I understand your concerns about me and this post, but I can assure you there’s nothing to worry about. I don’t work for The Post. I’m a freelance writer. And a Bristol City supporter. I joined this forum in March 2009 and have been reading it for longer.

My intention was to raise a genuine concern. As football fans we all (from every club) need to start to accept some responsibility in how our clubs behave and the money they spend. If we always demand almost instant success, we’re putting unnecessary pressure on our clubs and being unrealistic.

We want a new ground. Remember, I’m in favour of one and always have been. I just feel the timing now looks wrong. We have been on the slide for over 3 and a half years now.

I think the board, who I normally have a huge amount of time for, have made three mistakes in recent years: 1. Gary Johnson was at the club about 9 months too long. But, out of respect for what he’d done, I understand why they gave him a lot longer than they probably should. 2. Appointing Keith Millen: the lazy, safe option. 3. Appointing McInnes. I was crying out for someone like Sean O’Driscoll. I’m afraid I’m not a McInnes fan and haven’t been since day one.

Some on here have suggested that we used to play in a half full ground in the 70s. But, times have completely changed. This came out today: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Bristol-City-announce-loss-pound-14-4-million/story-17501918-detail/story.html

Hard to justify overinflated wages on some very average players.

@Rich: It’s to this club’s credit, or should I say this forum’s credit, that we’re still openly discussing this. You need to hear from dissenting voices. We are not immune from the perils of administration. Far bigger clubs have fallen in to it.

[chipdawg]

.

Some on here have suggested that we used to play in a half full ground in the 70s. But, times have completely changed. This came out today: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Bristol-City-announce-loss-pound-14-4-million/story-17501918-detail/story.html

Hard to justify overinflated wages on some very average players.

Surely our losses make an equally strong case for needing the increased revenue streams that a new stadium would bring? Not saying one or the other is correct, just that the argument is not clear-cut

[BCFC_Dan]

Some may say it will increase income streams... Really? Hows the income stream at Arsenal these days? Not exactly doing any better than they were are they?

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/arsenal-song-remains-same.html

It doesn't look bad to me. Could be better but they're generally profitable and have vast amounts of money in the bank. The Emirates makes them around £3m per match (only slightly lower than Ashton Gate brings in over an entire season.) It's not their fault they're competing against clubs who have external funding and don't need to live within their means.

[Rich]

Ben

No matter what your intentions are, those in opposition including some city fans will grasp at any opportunity to undermime the new stadium plans. The opposition have carried out their campaign in secret and anonymously, and using decenting voices on this forum to further their argument, you are fueling their cause and as such undermiming the clubs plans. There is nothing wrong with open debate but why give them anything that they can take advantage from.

In regards to the timing, the earliest it would be avaliable would be 2 years time, whos to say that our fortunes wont be on an upward spiral then?

[Jordan Tansley]

It looks like everyone has an opinion and raise points that we can all discuss in detail.

The timing of it all looks a bit strange as I think most of us and I include the Board in this, felt that it would have been sorted by now and the wrangles would be over and the Stadium would be built.

The fact that we are watching a team, a manager and a board seemingly devoid of ideas and leadership is one thing but I can't see how the new stadium will benefit us or the team much at all.

Some may say it will increase income streams... Really? Hows the income stream at Arsenal these days? Not exactly doing any better than they were are they? How will the City Board play it if we moved? Will they look to recoup loses before spending more on the team?

I'm more than happy at AG and we hardly ever fill it now and that is likely to remain the same.

To plan for a future away from the Gate is one thing but we need to have a look at us now and our current predicament. There won't be much of an income stream in League 1 or 2. Before anyone scoffs at the last comment. Look at Plymuff and their yet to be completed nice new stadium which is a quarter full at home games.

For me, it has to be a question of priorities and my feeling is that the stadium at the Vale will never happen anyway!

Did you seriously just suggest Arsenal have not had increased revenue since moving to the Emirates? I'm bored of this debate, so I don't get involved, but good grief, the nay Sayers are ill informed half the time.

[SecretSam]

I'd like to see the business case for AV vs AG. But the main problem with AG is not just the lack of space for new stands/etc - it's the lack of space full stop. It's a tight little site and no doubt rebuilding on the scale needed would present considerable challenges in terms of logistics. Plus you've still got the issues with the Dolman remaining (although I still think it's a great stand to watch football in, one of the best around).

It's a question of objectives - what objectives and benefits does AV achieve that AG cannot? I'm all in favour of a new ground, although I've so many wonderful memories of AG I think I'd shed more than one tear (mind you, I've some horrid memories too, that I'd happily live without).

You may question SL's football acumen, but the man knows how to run a business - so I'm guessing the case for AV is on a firm footing. But I'd still want to see it, if it exists.

[BCFC_Dan]

Did you seriously just suggest Arsenal have not had increased revenue since moving to the Emirates? I'm bored of this debate, so I don't get involved, but good grief, the nay Sayers are ill informed half the time.

They won the league playing at Highbury. They've never won it playing at the Emirates. Therefore new stadia = bad. Simples.

[Jordan Tansley]

They won the league playing at Highbury. They've never won it playing at the Emirates. Therefore new stadia = bad. Simples.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not?

[BCFC_Dan]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not?

Really?

[Kid in the Riot]

I'd like to see the business case for AV vs AG.

It was done as part of the original planning application for the new stadium: http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/files/20487F2E432D7E058586867A189912CE/pdf/09_02242_P-CLUB_NEEDS_STATEMENT-529093.pdf

There is also an 'alternative sites assessment' that goes into more detail on the constraints of AG. This has all been done and accepted by the Council so why people are still debating it I just don't know! Yes it will be sad to leave AG, I will be bloody sad, I will probably shed tears but unless you want us knocking around in League One/Two for years to come then we need this new stadium. Forget the Premier League, we need it just to keep on a level playing field with teams in THE CHAMPIONSHIP.

Fat Cigar - you are entitled to your opinion but IMO that article is a bit irresponsible and I hope you, Nogbad, Timbo and BCAGFC give the above document and the alternative sites assessment a good read. We were given planning permission on the basis of NEED and then we have some of our own fans, based on no evidence whatsoever saying 'no actually we don't need a new stadium'!! Where are your calculations/contrary evidence then?? If your figures add up then I'm sure Lansdown would love to hear from you!

And we can't just wait to build the stadium when we 'get successful' as time = money. The planning permission expires in 2015, we need to get going asap. There is no choice in this matter I'm afraid.

Here's the sites assessment: http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/files/D534C5B4A37DF80168BA2C6371D1E52E/pdf/09_02242_P-ALTERNATIVE_SITES_ASSESSMENT-529094.pdf Page 22 is about AG. The main issues were access and the site, at 10 acres, simply not being big enough. The previous permissions for the Williams and Wedlocks redevelopments have now LAPSED.

[Jordan Tansley]

Really?

Really.

[BCFC_Dan]

Really.

Scary, isn't it?

[Spud55]

I think now with our current plight it is more important than ever to get AV off the ground, we need more money to compete and the only real way to make that happen is to expand revenue from non fans, as our fanbase is not big enough currently to support a club in this league so the money has to come from somewhere and with a new ground come facilities that we don't have at ashton gate, i don't think 13k in a 21.5k stadia is really a great deal different to 13k in a 32k stadia to be honest so that is incedental from that point of view IMO.

What i would love to see us do however if we do get AV is to go out all guns blazing to build our fanbase, the people are there as trips to wembley and cardiff have shown, we just need to mobilize them. If we get AV i'd love to see the club try for the first season to absolutely ram the place, offer adult season tickets for £150 in large areas of the ground, (cheaper if we can incorporate safe standing into it), matchday prices of no more than £10 for adults in certain sections of the ground and really try for one season just to ram the place full for every single game, this is unfeasable at AG as the non matchday revenue is too small, so filling 18k a week wouldn't bring in enough money at these prices but if we can do it at a 30k stadium then there is money to be made. Dortmund are the most profitable club in the world by a fairly large margin, because they charge dick all and have the highest average attendances in Europe of over 80k a week, they make huge amounts of money in other areas as well but they make an enormous amount by getting in that number of fans every week.

Obviously we can never achieve that level of support, but why can't we price ourselfs low enough to get 30k per week, this city is definately big enough and there are more than enough people who like football who would be more willing to part with a tenner to see live matches, and if we can entice a few armchair man U fans who take interest in city but never go as it's bloody expensive, especially if they have a family, we can build ourselfs a fan base over time.

[Kid in the Riot]

I think now with our current plight it is more important than ever to get AV off the ground, we need more money to compete and the only real way to make that happen is to expand revenue from non fans, as our fanbase is not big enough currently to support a club in this league so the money has to come from somewhere and with a new ground come facilities that we don't have at ashton gate, i don't think 13k in a 21.5k stadia is really a great deal different to 13k in a 32k stadia to be honest so that is incedental from that point of view IMO.

Absolutely spot on. Strange how so many people fail to understand this.

Agree about getting fans in too. I hope the club don't think that once they have this new stadium they can up the prices. They should make it completely affordable for all. By all means charge top dollar for the best seats and facilities but ensure that large areas of the stadium are available at £10 a game, certainly for the first season or two.

[Jordan Tansley]

Absolutely spot on. Strange how so many people fail to understand this.

Agree about getting fans in too. I hope the club don't think that once they have this new stadium they can up the prices. They should make it completely affordable for all. By all means charge top dollar for the best seats and facilities but ensure that large areas of the stadium are available at £10 a game, certainly for the first season or two.

Much as I agree with the sentiment, there's about as much chance of me shagging Mila Kunis.

[WellRedPhil]

Did you seriously just suggest Arsenal have not had increased revenue since moving to the Emirates? I'm bored of this debate, so I don't get involved, but good grief, the nay Sayers are ill informed half the time.

That was a ludicrous suggestion and of course it has increased their revenue no end. But of course Arsenal were turning away 20,000 fans each week and sell out an entire ring of corporate boxes each game, not quite the same situation!

[Jordan Tansley]

That was a ludicrous suggestion and of course it has increased their revenue no end. But of course Arsenal were turning away 20,000 fans each week and sell out an entire ring of corporate boxes each game, not quite the same situation!

I wasn't comparing, he was.

Of all the new stadiums in England, the Emirates is surely the most successful. That Wenger/Gazidis won't spend it and their team has got worse has not been to do with the stadium.

[WellRedPhil]

I wasn't comparing, he was.

Of all the new stadiums in England, the Emirates is surely the most successful. That Wenger/Gazidis won't spend it and their team has got worse has not been to do with the stadium.

You won't find me disagreeing with that and I'd certainly say it's been the most successful.

[T R]

Hi guys I have come up with some crazy plan B. This would be so that you could get a new stadium at Ashton Gate. This would mean knocking down ashton gate as it is now, and moving into the retail industrial area next door. This would probably mean the price would be twice as much to do, but with a lot of planning and dealings with companies involved, I think it could be done. This would probably need a second party to come in with steve lansdown because I don't think he would have the funds himself, they would probably have shares in the new stadium too.

It would create a lot more space for Hotel and parking etc etc, and would fit in. There is a little stream that would have to be moved around the new stadium, this could quite easily be done, or you could bury it underground with piping etc.

The first plan would be to move sainsbury's to either the allotment area, that the council has marked for housing ( I have read somewhere), or if this is not possible, a deal with Lansdown to be moved onto the Ashton Vale site, probably built nearer to the dave lloyd centre away from the houses.

Wickes and Dreams could move into the old Sainsburies store site, it would give them a bit more space.

Stone and co engineering firm, walls and ceilings could move into ashton vale right next to the industrial area.

The only company I am not sure about is the Midas Group Ltd, and what they do. Could be moved to either ashton vale or the old sainsbury's site.

Or we could just move the whole lot that's next to ashton gate, to ashton vale, and not bother moving Sainsbury's.

Also in Yellow I have put in a new train station, I know it has nothing to do with the stadium plans but it would be nice to have one near by. This would be down to the council and train company, but I would use it. I used the train to get off at parkway last week. People from weston/ yatton/ backwell & nailsea would probably use it, would solve a few traffic problems. I know the old line is still there, it probably wouldn't cost too much to reconnect it.

I drew a rough diagram of this idea.

You can see on the diagram if the stadium was moved over there would be more space and it would be moved away from the houses, so there wouldn't be any issues on the lighting.

To be honest I wish I was a billionaire... Sort of thing I would like to do.

P.s. I left a small village green :tounge:

[WraxallRed]

Also in Yellow I have put in a new train station, I know it has nothing to do with the stadium plans but it would be nice to have one near by. This would be down to the council and train company, but I would use it. I used the train to get off at parkway last week. People from weston/ yatton/ backwell & nailsea would probably use it, would solve a few traffic problems. I know the old line is still there, it probably wouldn't cost too much to reconnect it.

I like the idea of having a train station, it would save me a lot of hassle driving in. I reckon we should have a station anyway even if we build at ashton vale.