Dave L Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought you might like to read my latest blog. It deals with some of the points that have been raised on here recently. http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/051212-dlblog-527304.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman Block B Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 35 million owed to Mr Lansdown. Hardly know what to say apart from thank you to him . There is no escaping the fact that the last few months have been a difficult time for everyone at Bristol City Football Club. The heady days of the two wins against table-topping Cardiff City and Crystal Palace, and the crucial win at Peterborough United seem like a distant memory. After the spirited performance at home to Blackpool and the brilliant win at Middlesbrough, it seemed as if we had turned a corner, but we were all brought crashing back to earth by last Saturday’s performance and result against Wolves. It’s no wonder fans get despondent after a run of results like we've had recently, and my inbox and twitter feed over the weekend certainly bore testimony to how downhearted everyone is feeling at the moment. I also spent some time immediately after the game on Saturday listening to the grievances of a variety of disgruntled fans, and I promise you those views are passed on. At times like this, it can be very difficult to see positives. As a fan myself, I have only truly enjoyed one Saturday night since August 25th, and it makes coming in to work at the start of the week all the more challenging. There have been murmurings of the club being “like a rudderless ship”, and of a “growing disconnect between club and fans”. As your supporter liaison I have to take this very seriously, as does everyone who works at our club. Although it may not seem like it, there are some very important things happening behind the scenes at the moment, and I thought it might be useful to consider the bigger picture. The last couple of years have seen a period of massive change at the football club. We have seen a new chairman and board of directors, a new manager, the launch of the Community Trust, a substantial revamp of the Academy and significant changes in both the structure and staff on both the football and non-football side. A while ago there was some criticism that there was a ‘jobs for the boys’ mentality behind the scenes at Ashton Gate. I think that such talk has now gone away. Why have these changes happened? Our latest annual accounts show an annual loss of over £14 million. They also show a debt of £41m, £35m of which is owed to Steve Lansdown. He has repeatedly reiterated that he has no intention of calling in that debt, and with his son on the board of directors it seems clear that he has no intention of walking away and given his financial commitment has certainly not “lost interest” either. Steve remains fully committed to supporting the board in developing this club and helping us realise our ambitions to be the west of England’s prime sporting club, playing at the highest possible level in the best possible surroundings, as well as pushing for the club to stand on its own two feet. But we clearly can’t carry on recording annual losses like this, thanks in no short measure to the impending implementation of the Football League’s Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations. The rules are fairly complex, but essentially they will seriously restrict the amount of turnover which clubs can spend on players. The idea is to make sure all clubs compete on a more level financial playing field. In my view, if properly implemented, they can only be good for the game as a whole – and hence why Bristol City voted in favour of the proposals some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 That's calmed the nerves a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought you might like to read my latest blog. It deals with some of the points that have been raised on here recently. http://www.bcfc.co.u...log-527304.aspx good blog Dave, It would be nice to hear a little bit from the board, the rudderless ship comments would disappear then, Jon Lansdown did an interview (I think last month) and really thats all we've heard since Keith took over as chairman, The other team in bristol hear from Nick Higgs quite a bit, I would want us to go that far (the very public dis-agrement they have had) but I really feel we need to hear a bit more from the board, Maybe a monthly blogg from jon who can keep us informed on some of the behind the scenes stuff, I knew about the new training ground but I bet a great deal of our fan base hasn't its things like this that can improve moral in the supporter base, Your bloggs are normally the only thing we hear about things going on, I think alot more needs to be done on that front, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Good blog. The only problem I have is that nobody from the board has come out and said this! They have left us in the dark and we as fans like to know what's going on behind the scenes as we pay good money to watch the lads on a Saturday. Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted December 5, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Good blog. The only problem I have is that nobody from the board has come out and said this! They have left us in the dark and we as fans like to know what's going on behind the scenes as we pay good money to watch the lads on a Saturday. Thanks Dave Have to echo that sentiment. What happened to the "Meet the Manager" can remember meeting GJ at Derby and Doncaster (I think it was), and the Mercure Hotel in Bristol. I know there is an opportunity tomorrow, but that is more of a forum for another purpose. SL attended the events mentioned above and also used to attend at the DEH. Hate to say Dave, apart from your efforts the PR at 'our' club seems appalling at the moment. The part about uniting the club is massive, as some how or another since SL and CS left there has been nothing from the directors or chairman, most people would not even know what our chairman actually LOOKS LIKE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 David, perhaps you can answer (or get an answer) to the following queries: What is your opinion of the fact that Steve Lansdown has led the club to the amount the club is now indebted to him and has presided over the biggest losses this club has ever seen? While this may have been deliberate on his part in order to restructure the club and try to move it forward, don't you think it is a little irresponsible to give an inexperienced manager a big say in what is being planned and put into practice? Steve Lansdown has shown, in the past, that his judgement in appointing 'football' people has been found wanting - can you explain what is so special about Derek McInnes that makes him think he is the right man for the job, when it is so obvious to the fans that McInnes appears to have 'lost his way' in terms of the first team? Whatever the 'big plan' for club restructuring is, it is obvious to many fans that relegation would be a disaster, and is currently looking a real possibility. Can you say whether this 'contingency' has been taken into account in 'The Bigger Picture'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie_Turner Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I thought you might like to read my latest blog. It deals with some of the points that have been raised on here recently. http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/051212-dlblog-527304.aspx Nice to hear what's going on in the background. Would be Nice thou to hear it from mr Dawe. With regards Del, he may well be putting all these wonderful initiatives in place, but he'd be best advised not to take his eye off of what he's here to do and that's manage a football team and successfully. Setting a team up with 1 striker at home and choosing that striker to be the one that's scored the least of our 4 options and is best at holding it up is not what we want to see. We want to see opposition worried to face us, worry about what were gonna do, what our tactics are, worried about a veciforous crowd, a team that's put 4 past each of the top 2 ! Where's that all gone ehh ? Swallowed in negativity is where it's gone. So please, don't preach to us about how wonderful everything is behind the scenes - if the future is our youth then where are they ? Why isn't bobby Reid given a chance? Wes burns ? James Wilson ?? You can paint everything to be rosy, but unless there is a reason to get the supporters of tomorrow in the ground, then none of this will matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Great blog by Dave l ...I woul never say the club isn't connecting with supporters ...I would just say at the moment it feels like there is no clear plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportingmad0209 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 There is clearly a lot going on behind the scenes. Could THIS be the problem? Juggling too many balls? For now... Del should give 100% of his time to get us out of this hole we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I think part of the problem is that it's 'behind the scenes' In this society, knowing every minor detail seems to be important to many, so keeping these sorts of people feeling 'in the loop' would probably help quell much of the ill feeling? I personally couldn't give a rats about it, so long as its happening. I've always trusted that it is. Some have trust issues, or have had cynicism drilled into them from past mistakes and past lies? (Buy a brick etc? ) I'm just speculating, but that feels like it could be one issue at the moment. It certainly seems to be with regard to the stadium. I'm very pro stadium, and I trust in SL's vision and that it will be for the good of the club, but some don't and it might be nice for those fears to be addressed properly? On the playing side we can see a reasonable plan. It's gone to pot in the last couple of months, but off the field the 'veil of secrecy' is certainly concerning a number of fans. If the club did come out and answer those questions those dissenting voices (who seem to have bored those who openly support the stadium into backing out of the argument if recent threads are anything to go by) would surely stop. I think there is a large feeling of disunity between the fan base and the club, not one I personally feel, and a huge step forward for morale would be to have a bit of openness and honesty come out of the club on some of the bigger issues concerning the club. Just my two Penneth worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 It is obvious that the club is going down the youth route from now on, no more massive earners like Pitman, Stead, Cisse, LJ, James, Hunt, Stewart etc, etc. As a club we cannot compete financially with likes of Leicester, Florist, Wolves etc, etc and will have to our cloth accordingly and unless we are very lucky that could result in L1 football for a while. AV is vital to our future and without it we can only aim to be a yo-yo Championship/L1 club IMO.....unless we are very lucky. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Good to get some information from the club. Any chance you could persuade some of the board to be a bit more forthcoming? Obviously some things are confidential but there must something they can say that really explains what’s going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Good to get some information from the club. Any chance you could persuade some of the board to be a bit more forthcoming? Obviously some things are confidential but there must something they can say that really explains what’s going on. There is a meeting for supporters this Thursday which board members will attend. Why not come along and ask them.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 There is a meeting for supporters this Thursday which board members will attend. Why not come along and ask them.? Don't be silly Dave - not many who spout off on here would actually go face to face with the people that they anonymosly slate on here from behind their keyboards! Correct me if i'm wrong, but is your role (part of it) within the club to act as a contactable go between for the fans and the members of the board..? I would therefore assume that your OP is, in turn, an official response to the points raised and as a result ok'd by Keith Dawe/Jon Lansdown..? Exactly what people on here are moaning about not getting..?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Would love to go to the meeting, but living in Manchester it isn't possible. Can we email questions or put them on here for you to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetrundlesrightfoot Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Would love to go to the meeting, but living in Manchester it isn't possible. Can we email questions or put them on here for you to ask. this would be beneficial to me also, as im away with work and cant attend, i wouldn't be scared to stand up and ask a question- 95% of us on here want the same thing- success for Bristol City! thanks tho dave for your info- your one of the very few employees who can actually go to sleep at night and no you have done your job sufficiently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think part of the problem is that it's 'behind the scenes' In this society, knowing every minor detail seems to be important to many, so keeping these sorts of people feeling 'in the loop' would probably help quell much of the ill feeling? I personally couldn't give a rats about it, so long as its happening. I've always trusted that it is. Some have trust issues, or have had cynicism drilled into them from past mistakes and past lies? (Buy a brick etc? ) I'm just speculating, but that feels like it could be one issue at the moment. It certainly seems to be with regard to the stadium. I'm very pro stadium, and I trust in SL's vision and that it will be for the good of the club, but some don't and it might be nice for those fears to be addressed properly? On the playing side we can see a reasonable plan. It's gone to pot in the last couple of months, but off the field the 'veil of secrecy' is certainly concerning a number of fans. If the club did come out and answer those questions those dissenting voices (who seem to have bored those who openly support the stadium into backing out of the argument if recent threads are anything to go by) would surely stop. I think there is a large feeling of disunity between the fan base and the club, not one I personally feel, and a huge step forward for morale would be to have a bit of openness and honesty come out of the club on some of the bigger issues concerning the club. Just my two Penneth worth. I have to say Jordan that you have summed up my own concerns regarding communication pretty well but I must of course take issue with your suggestion of "trust issues" and "cynicism" and in particular with "knowing every minor detail". Do you really consider any of the following to be "minor details"? 1. how will Ashton Vale be funded? 2. who will own Ashton Vale? 3. what (if any) non-football revenues from Ashton Vale will flow to the football club (as opposed to servicing debt or paying some return to investors)? 4. how does the club plan to meet FFP targets for the Championship 5. is there a contingency plan in place for meeting FFP targets in League 1 - how will this effect the club's position in the transfer market in January? (i.e. does the relegation risk prevent expenditure to prevent relegation?) 6. how does the acquisition of Davies and Baldock fit with a concerted effort to reduce the wage bill? Whilst it may be no more than coincidence, before the demise of the AGM the Chairman gave an annual presentation to the shareholders regarding plans for the future which were always founded on getting the business on a sound financial footing. Since the demise of the AGM annual losses have increased from £2M to £7M to £12M then £11M and now £14M with no apparent plan of how this frightening trend will be arrested - other than the promise of Ashton Vale. The result is that the Faithful's expectations/hopes for Ashton Vale have increased in line with the annual debt whilst any realistic projection would be downgraded to reflect the state of the economy since 2008. That my faith is limited to the knowledge that Bristol City is "by far the Greatest team the World will ever see" (in disregard of overwhelming evidence) does not make me a cynic AND the fact that Stephen Lansdown has given no indication of fading interest or intention to call in his debt does not make him immortal. The long-term security of this business depends on it becoming self-sufficient or, failing that, reduction of the annual subsidy to a level which there might be a reasonable chance of finding others (singular or collectively) to step in if ever required. Total dependence on one man and one man's wealth (whoever he may be) is a fragile place to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted December 6, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 There is a meeting for supporters this Thursday which board members will attend. Why not come along and ask them.? Are you 'hosting' this event tonight ? Don't be silly Dave - not many who spout off on here would actually go face to face with the people that they anonymosly slate on here from behind their keyboards! But not everyone lives close to the ground Can we email questions or put them on here for you to ask. Am sure there was a forum held once where there was the option to email in questions, but they were only used it their were insufficient questions asked from those in attendance? Would be useful if there is an 'official' report on tonight, as I am sure there will be other versions all over the various City websites this evening anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledinwatford Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Total dependence on one man and one man's wealth (whoever he may be) is a fragile place to be. Never bothered my missus Actually it's a balance. Without support from SL we would still probably be in the 3rd tier. That successive managers have largely failed to produce a settled side, playing attractive and positive football is down to the football judgement of those managers. In hindsight (always good to have) appointing Tins, GJ, Millen (x2), Coppell and McInnes stacked up from my perspective at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I have to say Jordan that you have summed up my own concerns regarding communication pretty well but I must of course take issue with your suggestion of "trust issues" and "cynicism" and in particular with "knowing every minor detail". Do you really consider any of the following to be "minor details"? 1. how will Ashton Vale be funded? 2. who will own Ashton Vale? 3. what (if any) non-football revenues from Ashton Vale will flow to the football club (as opposed to servicing debt or paying some return to investors)? 4. how does the club plan to meet FFP targets for the Championship 5. is there a contingency plan in place for meeting FFP targets in League 1 - how will this effect the club's position in the transfer market in January? (i.e. does the relegation risk prevent expenditure to prevent relegation?) 6. how does the acquisition of Davies and Baldock fit with a concerted effort to reduce the wage bill? Whilst it may be no more than coincidence, before the demise of the AGM the Chairman gave an annual presentation to the shareholders regarding plans for the future which were always founded on getting the business on a sound financial footing. Since the demise of the AGM annual losses have increased from £2M to £7M to £12M then £11M and now £14M with no apparent plan of how this frightening trend will be arrested - other than the promise of Ashton Vale. The result is that the Faithful's expectations/hopes for Ashton Vale have increased in line with the annual debt whilst any realistic projection would be downgraded to reflect the state of the economy since 2008. That my faith is limited to the knowledge that Bristol City is "by far the Greatest team the World will ever see" (in disregard of overwhelming evidence) does not make me a cynic AND the fact that Stephen Lansdown has given no indication of fading interest or intention to call in his debt does not make him immortal. The long-term security of this business depends on it becoming self-sufficient or, failing that, reduction of the annual subsidy to a level which there might be a reasonable chance of finding others (singular or collectively) to step in if ever required. Total dependence on one man and one man's wealth (whoever he may be) is a fragile place to be. Whiskey I agree with some of your sentiments, much of your post reads; "Dear successful businessman Steve Lansdown. I don't trust you and I certainly don't trust you to look after my club. Please justify yourself and your plans to us, a group of us users of an Internet forum, as we have strong suspicions that in actual fact you're some kind of Bond villain intent on using Bristol City FC to assist your destruction of all that is good and right in the world Yours faithfully Timbo7" I'm not trying to have a go at your sentiments or you personally, but I really don't see why we deserve to be party to the minutae of how BCFC operates. The way I understand it, the stadium will be owned by Ashton Vale Holdings (or similar) which will be a separate company to the club. Both companies will be owned by an umbrella corporation in turn owned by Lansdown. Vence LLP are, in essence, just a PO Box number to deal with the starting of the development because otherwise one or other of the companies will have to pay tax on an 'asset' which is of no use to anyone. The separate company has to exist in order to stop us blowing our FFP commitments regarding the amount of cash an owner can put in to a club. Now being a cynic, you could argue that Lansdown is setting the club up to own nothing but a) there's no evidence he'd ever screw us over and b) given that he owns everything anyway, it makes no difference. If he got fed up with the abuse he gets on here for being too rich/not being rich enough, he could divide the club and its assets as he sees fit anyway and hang the club out to dry, though I refer you back to point 'a' I personally feel this lack of communication is down to the lack of a good PR team than anything sinister and while it would be great to get an insight into the machinations of the stadium development, we are not 'owed' one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted December 6, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 "Dear successful businessman Steve Lansdown. I don't trust you and I certainly don't trust you to look after my club. Please justify yourself and your plans to us, a group of us users of an Internet forum, as we have strong suspicions that in actual fact you're some kind of Bond villain intent on using Bristol City FC to assist your destruction of all that is good and right in the world Not that I disagree with you, but must point the really obvious to you. Running his succesful business will be very unlike running a football club. If I worked in McDonalds it wouldn't mean that I could be a top chef in a restaurant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Whiskey I agree with some of your sentiments, much of your post reads; "Dear successful businessman Steve Lansdown. I don't trust you and I certainly don't trust you to look after my club. Please justify yourself and your plans to us, a group of us users of an Internet forum, as we have strong suspicions that in actual fact you're some kind of Bond villain intent on using Bristol City FC to assist your destruction of all that is good and right in the world Yours faithfully Timbo7" I'm not trying to have a go at your sentiments or you personally, but I really don't see why we deserve to be party to the minutae of how BCFC operates. The way I understand it, the stadium will be owned by Ashton Vale Holdings (or similar) which will be a separate company to the club. Both companies will be owned by an umbrella corporation in turn owned by Lansdown. Vence LLP are, in essence, just a PO Box number to deal with the starting of the development because otherwise one or other of the companies will have to pay tax on an 'asset' which is of no use to anyone. The separate company has to exist in order to stop us blowing our FFP commitments regarding the amount of cash an owner can put in to a club. Now being a cynic, you could argue that Lansdown is setting the club up to own nothing but a) there's no evidence he'd ever screw us over and b) given that he owns everything anyway, it makes no difference. If he got fed up with the abuse he gets on here for being too rich/not being rich enough, he could divide the club and its assets as he sees fit anyway and hang the club out to dry, though I refer you back to point 'a' I personally feel this lack of communication is down to the lack of a good PR team than anything sinister and while it would be great to get an insight into the machinations of the stadium development, we are not 'owed' one I'm sorry you feel that way - we will all have to hope that SL (self-made millionaire etc.) is not so sensitive to questions being asked of the Board of Directors by a fellow shareholder - to who they each owe a legal duty of good faith You may have a valid point that as long as SL continues to pick up the tab he can do whatever he sees fit and is not answerable to anyone. You may also have a point that there is no evidence to suggest that SL has anything but the best interests of Bristol City at heart (I have to say it is hard to find any other reason why he would continue to commit his hard-earned to the cause). However, as I suggested in my previous post I cannot agree with you that any of my six questions relate to the minutiae of how BCFC operates. They in fact relate to:the fundamental nature of the largest project the club has ever engaged in - what debts (financial or otherwise) might consequently be owed and what benefits might realistically accrue - all in the hope that such information might bring an end to some of the wild speculation (including my own) on the matter; anda matter which the Chairman suggests in his annual statement might be the biggest single issue affecting the future of the club over the next few year Given that I had understood the OP to be expressing concern over the relationship between the club and its supporters, my post was simply aimed at suggesting some disclosure which might help us (or at least me) better understand the Board's plans for the future in order that we/I may be able to support them better or feel more empathy for them when things do not turn out the way we would like. To avoid doubt, if SL plans to "invest" further massive amounts of capital in Ashton Vale he is quite entitled to do this in whichever way he sees fit for tax reasons, minimum burden for him or for any other reason - he has absolutely no duty to do so just as he has absolutely no duty to continue to bail out Bristol City or to warn anyone in advance if decides to stop bailing out Bristol City. However, I can see no reason whatsoever why some detail of the proposal cannot be shared - I am allowed to be interested without being suspicious or subversive. As I have said sharing this information will add to a feeling of being involved and of belonging. In his first few seasons at the helm SL was keen to promote open communication and gave a valuable presentation at each AGM of the plans for the future - I miss this. Again to avoid doubt, I have never criticised SL for being too rich or (as other have done) for not spending enough - I have criticised and will continue to criticise all that appears to be profligate spending and indiscriminate support for managers' transfer targets. I have and will support any realistic plan for bringing the club's finances back under some form of control. It is a fact that I find our dependence on a rich man more distasteful than some but I do not suggest for a second that is entirely the fault/responsibility of the rich man - I dream of a football club in a parallel universe (or it would seem Germany) where financial ownership and control is aligned with spiritual ownership and control - where we do not have to sell our souls to highest bidder simply to survive. This may be a fantasy but it seems it is one shared by many thousands - e.g. Liverpool's protests over their previous owners, Manchester United's over their current owners - they feel their clubs belong to them and do not like being reminded that they do not - I am the same. Bristol City will be a better place to be if we can kindle a spirit of all being in it together - rather than simply customers who can/will take their business elsewhere if the product on the park is not good enough or the tickets are too expensive. Thanks for keeping us alive and allowing us to dream Stephen BUT if at all possible can you help us to find a way to survive without you when you are gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Timbo7 cracking comments and of course especially the bit which is at the essence of the entire debate - the desirability of alignment of financial ownership and control with spiritual ownership and control. Its all very well for example banging on about the Community Trust but while one person or one family remains in control of what should be truly a community asset, I see that as no more than a PR exercise. The fact is that depite the blog referred to at the start of this thread there is a huge disconnect between "The Club" and a significant element of its support for reasons which have not been touched upon. I would suggest that Jon Lansdown, the new face of ownership but also a young person who from my experience of meeting him a couple of times seems a good lad, could do a lot worse than leave the comfort of his directors seat and mingle with the regulars of the East End, the Dolman and the Atyeo once in a while, talk to people at matches, and find out what is relly irking the regular fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semblar Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Timbo - my guess for the broad answer to your question No. 3 would be: "at least enough to comply with FFP regulations" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I'm sorry you feel that way - we will all have to hope that SL (self-made millionaire etc.) is not so sensitive to questions being asked of the Board of Directors by a fellow shareholder - to who they each owe a legal duty of good faith You may have a valid point that as long as SL continues to pick up the tab he can do whatever he sees fit and is not answerable to anyone. You may also have a point that there is no evidence to suggest that SL has anything but the best interests of Bristol City at heart (I have to say it is hard to find any other reason why he would continue to commit his hard-earned to the cause). However, as I suggested in my previous post I cannot agree with you that any of my six questions relate to the minutiae of how BCFC operates. They in fact relate to:the fundamental nature of the largest project the club has ever engaged in - what debts (financial or otherwise) might consequently be owed and what benefits might realistically accrue - all in the hope that such information might bring an end to some of the wild speculation (including my own) on the matter; anda matter which the Chairman suggests in his annual statement might be the biggest single issue affecting the future of the club over the next few year Given that I had understood the OP to be expressing concern over the relationship between the club and its supporters, my post was simply aimed at suggesting some disclosure which might help us (or at least me) better understand the Board's plans for the future in order that we/I may be able to support them better or feel more empathy for them when things do not turn out the way we would like. To avoid doubt, if SL plans to "invest" further massive amounts of capital in Ashton Vale he is quite entitled to do this in whichever way he sees fit for tax reasons, minimum burden for him or for any other reason - he has absolutely no duty to do so just as he has absolutely no duty to continue to bail out Bristol City or to warn anyone in advance if decides to stop bailing out Bristol City. However, I can see no reason whatsoever why some detail of the proposal cannot be shared - I am allowed to be interested without being suspicious or subversive. As I have said sharing this information will add to a feeling of being involved and of belonging. In his first few seasons at the helm SL was keen to promote open communication and gave a valuable presentation at each AGM of the plans for the future - I miss this. Again to avoid doubt, I have never criticised SL for being too rich or (as other have done) for not spending enough - I have criticised and will continue to criticise all that appears to be profligate spending and indiscriminate support for managers' transfer targets. I have and will support any realistic plan for bringing the club's finances back under some form of control. It is a fact that I find our dependence on a rich man more distasteful than some but I do not suggest for a second that is entirely the fault/responsibility of the rich man - I dream of a football club in a parallel universe (or it would seem Germany) where financial ownership and control is aligned with spiritual ownership and control - where we do not have to sell our souls to highest bidder simply to survive. This may be a fantasy but it seems it is one shared by many thousands - e.g. Liverpool's protests over their previous owners, Manchester United's over their current owners - they feel their clubs belong to them and do not like being reminded that they do not - I am the same. Bristol City will be a better place to be if we can kindle a spirit of all being in it together - rather than simply customers who can/will take their business elsewhere if the product on the park is not good enough or the tickets are too expensive. Thanks for keeping us alive and allowing us to dream Stephen BUT if at all possible can you help us to find a way to survive without you when you are gone? I think it's perhaps wrong to aim criticism, implied or overt, at Mr Lansdown and the board because our current situation doesn't conform to an ideal that just doesn't exist in this country. I absolutely share your dream for a German-style system of ownership but it's just not feasible in England at this time. It's never ideal for an individual to control every aspect of any organisation, one reason why I imagine Steve Lansdown took a step back from the board (I'm not convinced how far he's removed himself) but it's certainly preferable to being owned by a US sports business with a massive mortgage Perhaps I'm too trusting a person, but I like to believe that Steve Lansdown's motors behind the new stadium are to make us self sufficient- he's said as much in the past. More communication of his short, medium and long term aims would be great but I personally think that the amount of money he's sunk into the club affords Him a level of trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Never bothered my missus Without support from SL we would still probably be in the 3rd tier. But with support from SL there is chance we will be back where we started next season but with huge losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Nice blog Dave L. But I hope City will make progress in the table and with the money. As a City supporter I am worried about our current situation in the leauge. A bigger picture you allways have to had. But the mainthing Imo is avoid relegation. If we will play in leauge one, only God knows how many seasons we will playing there. Really hope that the team can show balls, as they say in US, on saturday in Sheffield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Not a fan of speculate to accumulate, me thinks it's still a rich mans toy, the returns on his investment will be in decades, not years, fair play, tis only a small part of his masive wealth, thank our lucky stars we have a man who believes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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