January, Heaton, Keepers...

[Lack of Action Man]

Unless I've totally got my facts wrong, Heaton signed on a 1 year deal? I'm not sure if we have an option to force the renewal of it or not?

If we do, then we should. If we don't we should be doing all in our power to persuade him to stay. Sadly I can't see him wanting to play for potentially a league 1 side (pessimistic outlook, I know) when he is clearly a mid to top end Championship keeper.

With this in mind, it might be necessary to start at least scouting keepers/ looking at who is available in January in case he decides not to join us for next season?

[OldlandReddies]

If we go down Heaton will not stay. He's far too good for League 1. We already have a perfect replacement in Gerks. That's the only reason he's hung around.

[And Its Smith]

He's a great shot stopper but cannot command his area one bit. If we had a keeper who could come and catch/punch as well as save like Heaton then there's every chance that we'd be a few places higher.

Unfortunately keepers of that kind are few and far between. Off the top of my head the only ones we've had in the last 10-15 years are James (who admittedly was on his way down), Dykstra and Mercer.

[Guest]

Good shot stopper. Very average in many other respects. Relative to ability I imagine he'd command a decent wage. I'd look replace.

[Guest paulcitymod]

Excellent keeper. Made at least 6 really good saves at Millwall that some would have let in. Keep at any costs

[JammyOne]

How on earth does Tom Heaton get away without any stick on these boards?! HELLO? The guy has let in every single shot so far, no clean sheet since joining us. It's bad enough Del keeps playing him in front of Gerken and Carey, god help us if he signs for another year.

Not sure he would get into half the League 1 teams, let alone Championship.

I honestly don't get the Tom Heaton love, he's like the new Pitman.

[And Its Smith]

Excellent keeper. Made at least 6 really good saves at Millwall that some would have let in. Keep at any costs

Thats the thing - because he doesn't EVER come for a cross, this part of his game gets forgotten as he doesnt make the odd mistake that doing this would inevitably bring.

A defence loves for keepers to come and it gives them confidence - something our defence lacks.

I wouldn't be worried if he left if we went down (assuming he is one of the higher earners at the club)

[Super]

Thats the thing - because he doesn't EVER come for a cross, this part of his game gets forgotten as he doesnt make the odd mistake that doing this would inevitably bring.

A defence loves for keepers to come and it gives them confidence - something our defence lacks.

I wouldn't be worried if he left if we went down (assuming he is one of the higher earners at the club)

David James came for plenty of crosses and rarely got anywhere near them.

[And Its Smith]

How on earth does Tom Heaton get away without any stick on these boards?! HELLO? The guy has let in every single shot so far, no clean sheet since joining us. It's bad enough Del keeps playing him in front of Gerken and Carey, god help us if he signs for another year.

Not sure he would get into half the League 1 teams, let alone Championship.

I honestly don't get the Tom Heaton love, he's like the new Pitman.

He hasn't let in every single shot so far! Blimey - that would be bad!

Goalkeeper is a funny position as people constantly under/over estimate players abilities.

They often over-estimate saves as well. Commentators and fans will scream 'what a save' when a lot of the time the ball is hit straight at the keeper and to concede a goal the keeper would have had to purposely dive out of the way!!

[And Its Smith]

David James came for plenty of crosses and rarely got anywhere near them.

That's an exaggeration as you probably know deep down.

[Super]

That's an exaggeration as you probably know deep down.

Really? Awful keeper made some shocking mistakes. Complete waste of money.

[JammyOne]

He hasn't let in every single shot so far! Blimey - that would be bad!

Goalkeeper is a funny position as people constantly under/over estimate players abilities.

They often over-estimate saves as well. Commentators and fans will scream 'what a save' when a lot of the time the ball is hit straight at the keeper and to concede a goal the keeper would have had to purposely dive out of the way!!

I know Dave, I'm obviously exaggerating just a incy bit when I say he's let in every shot, and he isn't as bad as I'm making him out to be. But the fact is, he's not getting clean sheets and it's causing us problems. I know our defence isn't that great, or our midfield for that matter but Heaton has to share some of the blame and responsibility for our goal difference. I think Tom has made the occasional decent save here and there, even enough to warrant screaming 'WHAT A SAVE' but he lets in far too many goals where most League 1 keepers would have kept it out.

[Guest paulcitymod]

Some nonsense here. The keeper wouldn't have to make so many excellent saves if the defence and midfield did their jobs. That is one very good keeper. I thought Bates and McManus were very poor yesterday backing off and allowing the Millwall players to get a lot of shots in. No keeper would have stopped their second goal rifled from point blank, no defender anywhere near. Thanks to his multiple saves we could have nicked the all the points if Danns and Baldock had connected with the sitters they had

[MarcusX]

How on earth does Tom Heaton get away without any stick on these boards?! HELLO? The guy has let in every single shot so far, no clean sheet since joining us. It's bad enough Del keeps playing him in front of Gerken and Carey, god help us if he signs for another year.

Not sure he would get into half the League 1 teams, let alone Championship.

I honestly don't get the Tom Heaton love, he's like the new Pitman.

You clearly weren't at Millwall, and infact would hazard a guess you've seen very few games this season.

That, or just a bit dim / on a wind up

[Super]

Just taking a look at the highlights from Millwall. Heaton's positioning is poor I thought, he was stuck to his line for the shown saves and was struggling from shots on the edge of the box and was wrong footed or wrong weighted for a few of the shots. He was no more than 2 yards off his line and nearly lobbed before making a hollywood save, that looks good, but really isnt all that in terms of being a decent save, looks better than it was.

Does he come out of his 6 yard box at all?

To blame Heaton for anything from that game from those highlights is laughable.

[Uncle Albert]

You clearly weren't at Millwall, and infact would hazard a guess you've seen very few games this season.

That, or just a bit dim / on a wind up

JammyOne just really doesn't like him!

[bcfczd]

There are some good keepers in leagues below if we are looking, Bartosz Białkowski of Notts county is playing below his standard as is yeovils Marek Štěch, both reasonably young!

[redcherryberry]

Yeah he stays rooted to his line at times and his kicking aint great but your never going to get the complete player at this level.

Doesnt help neither when he's had 7/8 CB partnerships infront of him this season not to mention an inept CM.

Heaton has made some outstanding saves this season and for me he's a very good Championship keeper.

[And Its Smith]

How can he be a class act if he NEVER comes for crosses?

[steviestevieneville]

How on earth does Tom Heaton get away without any stick on these boards?! HELLO? The guy has let in every single shot so far, no clean sheet since joining us. It's bad enough Del keeps playing him in front of Gerken and Carey, god help us if he signs for another year.

Not sure he would get into half the League 1 teams, let alone Championship.

I honestly don't get the Tom Heaton love, he's like the new Pitman.

Clueless

[JammyOne]

Your arguments might have an iota of credence if you weren't so over the top.

Let in every shot? Do me a favour, you daft bastard! He's pulled off dozens of class saves this season.

I already admitted myself that I'm exaggerated, I get worked up when I see people posting things like "Heaton is a class act" or "Heaton is a excellent keeper" when he hasn't really been that great for us so far.

You clearly weren't at Millwall, and infact would hazard a guess you've seen very few games this season.

That, or just a bit dim / on a wind up

Indeed I wasn't at Millwall, but you make it sound like he was a completely different Heaton to the Heaton that keeps on shipping goals at AG.

JammyOne just really doesn't like him!

I don't have a problem with him, in-fact in the player interviews he comes across as being quite a nice guy. I just think he lets in far too many goals, I can't see what's unfair about that.

[Guest paulcitymod]

Our best player at Millwall. End of. Could have won us the game by keeping us in it. Probably only player who did his job well for the whole game. Not to blame for either goal

[And Its Smith]

Wow, never comes for crosses? You DEFINATELY weren't there yesterday.

Sorry super fan, I was not. Wow - he came for a cross in a game. Give him a medal and put him in the England team.

[Fiale]

Heaton is a good shot stopper (but so is Gerken) - he struggles with crosses, organising the defence, and angled shots. So we have a keeper that can stop rather comfortable shots in the middle of goal - ala almost every keeper.

If he stays or goes, I have no problem he is about as good/bad as most championship keepers, no better or worse - would not be upset to see Gerken in goal if it comes to it.

[Harry]

I think it might be time to dispel some myths again from some of our otib contributors who have no idea.

Anyone placing any blame on Tom Heaton for the 546 goals conceded this season is doing so simply because he is the keeper. I've had a quick look at ALL of the goals we've conceded this season and I can level 100% fault at him for 1 goal (Brighton's 2nd).

I apportion some blame to him for :

1) Barnsley away (perhaps he could have come off his line for the cross - though I am being harsh on this one)

2) Bolton's 1st (Free Kick bottom corner - might have done a little better)

3) Burnley's 1st (One on One but Tom possibly goes to ground too early)

4) Sheff Weds 1st (Hesitated in coming for corner, should have stayed on his line as he was never getting there)

5) Sheff Weds 2nd (Spills a shot from distance)

6) Derby's 1st (Cross lands at 6yd box, possibly could have come out for this, but again this is a tad harsh)

7) Peterborough's 2nd (Beaten by a decent shot at his near post - again I'm possibly being harsh)

Aside from that, none of the other 42 goals conceded are Heaton's fault. In fact, he's made numerous fantastic saves.

The continual claims about conceding from corners being TH's fault is also false.

The corners we've conceded goals from are :

1) Cardiff's 1st (Near Post corner - not TH's ball to claim)

2) Middlesbrough (Near Post corner, about 8 yards out - not TH's ball to come for)

3) Wolves 1st (Outswinging corner met by header more than 10 yards from goal - not TH's remit to come for this)

4) Sheff Weds 1st (Hesitated to come and then went back - should have stayed)

5) Ipswich (Far post corner, met 8 yards beyond the far post and 8 yards out from byline - no keeper should come for this)

So, of all the corners we've conceded this season, Heaton is to blame for 1 goal conceded.

Take your agenda's elsewhere. We have ourselves a very good Championship level keeper.

[And Its Smith]

I don't think anyone has said he was at fault for the goals solely. Lets go through the highlights shown on Sky:

Save 1 - this is routine. If he's let that in then's its a shocking error so cannot be classed as a great save. A decent save.

Goal - he is 2 yards off his line. This is poor. He should be 5 yards off his line thus narrowing the angle greatly. A lot of keepers would save this.

Corner headed wide - could have come for it but lots of bodies and cross comes in whipped so can understand him not coming here.

Save Second Half - again routine but again he is 2 yards off the line. Another 1/2 yards out and he'd probably hold onto it.

Goal - cannot do anything about that

Save from long shot - incredibly routine. Again, if this goes in then it's woeful keeping.

Doesn't seem like he had a stunning game pal!

[Guest paulcitymod]

I don't think anyone has said he was at fault for the goals solely. Lets go through the highlights shown on Sky:

Save 1 - this is routine. If he's let that in then's its a shocking error so cannot be classed as a great save. A decent save.

Goal - he is 2 yards off his line. This is poor. He should be 5 yards off his line thus narrowing the angle greatly. A lot of keepers would save this.

Corner headed wide - could have come for it but lots of bodies and cross comes in whipped so can understand him not coming here.

Save Second Half - again routine but again he is 2 yards off the line. Another 1/2 yards out and he'd probably hold onto it.

Goal - cannot do anything about that

Save from long shot - incredibly routine. Again, if this goes in then it's woeful keeping.

Doesn't seem like he had a stunning game pal!

Mate

Goal 2 was unstoppable. Our best player yesterday

[And Its Smith]

Mate

Goal 2 was unstoppable. Our best player yesterday

Who said it wasn't unstoppable? Certainly not mean.

Read it again.

[Guest paulcitymod]

Who said it wasn't unstoppable? Certainly not mean.

Read it again.

I read 'a lot of keepers would save this'. No way. Keeper not to blame

[And Its Smith]

I read 'a lot of keepers would save this'. No way. Keeper not to blame

Can you read? That was goal one.

[bearded_red]

He can improve when it comes to commanding his area, but he is a superb shot stopper and a good keeper.

As for the Millwall game he was our best player by a distance and had it not been for numerous excellent stops it could have been a pretty bleak scoreline.

[Red-Robbo]

Heaton is a good shot stopper (but so is Gerken) - he struggles with crosses, organising the defence, and angled shots. So we have a keeper that can stop rather comfortable shots in the middle of goal - ala almost every keeper.

If he stays or goes, I have no problem he is about as good/bad as most championship keepers, no better or worse - would not be upset to see Gerken in goal if it comes to it.

+1 on this.

Although I do think the continuing onslaught unleashed on his goal has demoralised him. He looked much better early in the season.

[Guest tom from sunny side]

I know Dave, I'm obviously exaggerating just a incy bit when I say he's let in every shot, and he isn't as bad as I'm making him out to be. But the fact is, he's not getting clean sheets and it's causing us problems. I know our defence isn't that great, or our midfield for that matter but Heaton has to share some of the blame and responsibility for our goal difference. I think Tom has made the occasional decent save here and there, even enough to warrant screaming 'WHAT A SAVE' but he lets in far too many goals where most League 1 keepers would have kept it out.

it's not his fault we're not keeping clean sheets, there's only so much a keeper can do.So much more blame should be levelled at our outfield players than you're making out. You make it sound very simple. Wasn't it you who was saying he should be saving penalty kicks the other day?

[Guest Bedminster Born And Red]

Not going to bag him. He's a decent Championship keeper but certainly no world beater like some on here claim.

Very good shot stopper (which you should be if you are playing in the second tier of English football). Doesn't dominate his six yard box. Yet to see him have a game like Gerken at Forest (1-0), Gerken at Newcastle (0-0), Gerken at Ipswich (0-0) and Gerken at Derby (2-1) where he was roundly praised as being the difference by the opposition Managers.

Clearly not as good as David Marshall which is why we have him.

[Keep the Faith]

Heaton is not the worst Goalkeeper we've ever had but he's far from being the best as well. As has been highlighted previously he often gets into poor position which make it look as though shots are unstoppable when in fact they are far from it. Just because a shot is out of reach for a Keeper does not mean he could do nothing about it.

As an example, Peterborough's second goal last weekend. He could have come off his line and closed the angle down. I'm not saying he would have saved it but he would have made it more difficult for the Striker who may have missed as a result. He didn't and the guy rolled it past him. He also very rarely (and i'm not saying never) makes a commanding catch from a cross. I imagine there is a degree of uncertainty caused in a defence resulting from having a keeper who is not as dominant as others.

He's the Goalkeeper for a team with a terrible defensive record . He's been an almost ever present in that defence. I'm not sure how he can be above all blaim.

I can't comment on the Millwall game as I wasn't there but even if he did have an excellent game he has not had (in my opinion) an excellent season and we should be considering other options. There may be none better out there but it would be foolish not to even look.

[ashton_fan]

I don't think Basso's with anyone now, aged 37 still a lot younger than James was. Would certainly be OK as no 2 to Gerks.

[Guest catcott_red1]

I watched Yeovil with my mate the other day when city were away at Ipswich and thier keeper Marek Stech stood out for me. Good handling, made a couple good 1 vs 1 saves, claimed numerous crosses, passionate, commanding and very agile for a 6ft 3 man, he made 2 top corner saves with his finger tips. Only 22 and local. These are the type of players we need to be looking at in gerneal for all positions not just the goalkeeping department.

Surely we must have a scout watching Yeovil games surely, i mean Edwards in on loan there for one and they have couple of very decnt player that could make the step up. Stech as said before but also Luke Ayling. 21 can play anywere in defence but primarily a right back and likes to get stuck in and get involved but can bring the ball forward and is good techniqually to. already played over 100 games at that level.

Why we aren't looking at these players i'll never know.

[Andy082005]

I know Dave, I'm obviously exaggerating just a incy bit when I say he's let in every shot, and he isn't as bad as I'm making him out to be. But the fact is, he's not getting clean sheets and it's causing us problems. I know our defence isn't that great, or our midfield for that matter but Heaton has to share some of the blame and responsibility for our goal difference. I think Tom has made the occasional decent save here and there, even enough to warrant screaming 'WHAT A SAVE' but he lets in far too many goals where most League 1 keepers would have kept it out.

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

[CiderHider]

Heaton is class, everyone knows it. Can be better than Basso given time.

[JammyOne]

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

Yeah I have, and to be honest I'm dreadful (no really I am), which is why I don't play professionally and I would rather pay good money and criticise others for it. But that's neither relevant or any of your business. I take it you must be a ex-premier league player and MOTD pundit for you to have such a high horse attitude about you?

Stick a decent defence in front of him (Heaton) and he would flourish? Stick a decent defence in front of Fontaine in goal, and Fontaine would flourish! Poor excuse.

[Guest Jonathan Jenkins]

Heaton has no command of his 6 yard box, meaning he can only ever be a league one keeper. So many goals conceded from set peices!

[cider-manc]

I have got to be honest the argument that he is a "great shot stopper" is laughable, not because he isn't a great shot stopper, but because he is a professional goalkeeper! He should be a great shot stopper! That's his main job!

However I think that we would struggle to find another keeper of Heatons quality.

[Guest Bedminster Born And Red]

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

Not saying Heaton is the worst keeper in the world because he isn't but he's simply not as good as is being made out by many on here. I certainly don't think that Gerken is as inferior as people are saying on here if he is inferior at all.

Cardiff have had a better back four than us in recent seasons but Heaton was unable to "flourish" there and make the Number 1 jersey his own.

You can't argue that Heaton is a very good shot stopper but has made a couple of ricks that you expect from any keeper over the course of a season (Brighton and Sheffield Wednesday from memory).

But what is concerning some is that he does not take enough high balls and his organisation of the back four can sometimes be below par. Specifically I go back to Derby's first goal where he didn't push his back four out in a routine manner and then compounded that error by not coming for a cross that was stabbed in only a foot off the ground.

We concede far too many goals from set pieces and high balls for it to be a co-incidence (although our Centre Halves also have to take a large slice of the blame too). Ignoring controversial posters all some of us are saying is that he has to take a "share" of the responsibility for our goals conceded record because he is a more or less ever present part of the back five, four, nine or whatever McInnes is playing that week!!

I wasn't at Millwall but it sounds like he had a very good game which is great. We want our keeper, whoever that may be, to play well every week.

In terms of my experience of the game a lot of the points I refer to above have been made by my son who played a decent level in goal and is a goalkeeping coach. My Grandson plays Academy football in goal too and I often watch his training/coaching. Does that make me qualified enough to comment?

[pigeon]

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

Agree with this...

I can't believe people think Heaton is the problem. He has made mistakes like every player does but he is by far the most consistently performing player in the squad.

With our horrific defense we have not had many high scoring losses (apart from Wolves obviously) and this is because of our goalkeeper pulling off at least 1 or 2 outstanding saves per game!

Tom Heaton is far too often the unsung hero of our wins also, as we always tend to panic after taking the lead which then ensues him pulling off incredible saves and trying to motivate the team in front of him to get their fingers out their asses!

[myol'man]

Just over 100 league games in over 8 seasons as a pro? A lot of managers clearly didn't think him good enough until he landed here.

Give Gerks a chance, you never know, we might get a clean sheet.

[Lack of Action Man]

I watched Yeovil with my mate the other day when city were away at Ipswich and thier keeper Marek Stech stood out for me. Good handling, made a couple good 1 vs 1 saves, claimed numerous crosses, passionate, commanding and very agile for a 6ft 3 man, he made 2 top corner saves with his finger tips. Only 22 and local. These are the type of players we need to be looking at in gerneal for all positions not just the goalkeeping department.

I went to watch Hereford play Kidderminster Harriers on New Years Day and although we're talking a significant level lower in terms of the football on show, what I was really impressed with was Hereford's keeper James Bittner. A little out of shape admittedly, but very dominant on crosses (not a giant either, was probably only about 6.1 - but strong with it, good physicality about him) and an excellent reaction keeper. If we are to go down, from what I saw he could quite easily play at league 1 level and be decent.

[fatman]

I've seen a lot of goalies in 55 years of watching football and, in my opinion, Heaton would not make the top ten. Granted, it's only an opinion but he doesn't do half the things a good goalie should do. Command his area, organise his defence, bully his way to the ball from corners and set pieces, come off his line quickly enough when threatened and be brave. Now, I know he can look good as a shot stopper but so could Phillips! The facts don't lie, he has conceded goals for fun and I believe he makes defenders nervous because they know his weaknesses. I can only assume that some posters on here have little to compare with!

[Andy082005]

Yeah I have, and to be honest I'm dreadful (no really I am), which is why I don't play professionally and I would rather pay good money and criticise others for it. But that's neither relevant or any of your business. I take it you must be a ex-premier league player and MOTD pundit for you to have such a high horse attitude about you?

Stick a decent defence in front of him (Heaton) and he would flourish? Stick a decent defence in front of Fontaine in goal, and Fontaine would flourish! Poor excuse.

Heaton has done well this year, very well. I'm not making excuses.

I can't think of many mistakes he's made if I'm honest. Certainly nothing that warrants the grief you give him....been one of our better performers.

It makes me laugh how you blame things on him...when it isn't his fault.

As for he isn't great at coming for crosses....not many keepers are these days.

He is a good keeper at this level, not great...but good. Put players of similar calibre around him in the defence and midfield.....we'd be mid table

[tiz]

How many different defence combinations have we tried all with the same result. Nervy mistake ridden and no clean sheets. Common denominator Heaton. I am no fan of fonts right now but even without him we still look the same nervous and flaky. Heaton can stop shots but i am convinced he does not communicate well with players if not vocally but body language wise. There is in my opinion a problem be it positioning mis communication or what ever with him and the defence this despite being vocally loud.