Red Skin Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Well there's this insight into Di Canio, which determines what the salute is all about, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/paolo-di-canio-my-life-speaks-for-me-6273526.html Cracking read. Thanks for posting. Got no time for fascists or fascism but there does seem more to him than than the headlines suggest. Certainly no racist as Chris Powell's comments would tend to support. I always found the America's treatment of Jesse Owen quite enlightening when compared to the attitude of Nazi Germany after his outstanding performance at the Berlin Olympic Games. It's very easy to label someone a fascist and join in a witch hunt, but still be blind to your own shortcomings. Owens said, "Hitler didn't snub me – it was FDR who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram."[15] On the other hand, Hitler sent Owens a commemorative inscribed cabinet photograph of himself.[16] Jesse Owens was never invited to the White House nor were honors bestowed upon him by President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) or his successor Harry S. Truman during their terms. In 1955, President Dwight D. Eisenhower (himself an athlete of note) honored Owens by naming him an "Ambassador of Sports." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens Whether a fascist would be tolerated by City fans? English football hooligans have a long history of association with the far right and, sadly, City are no exception so probably. Though the fact Di Canio played for Celtic and not Rangers might confuse the **** out of most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Just what do you think Di Canio is going to do at Sunderland. Convert the team to the SS. The reaction after all the time he has been in the country is ridiculous but tailor made for the PC brigade. Let's hope the reaction would be the same if an extreme left wing communist took over a football club.Some how I doubt it would. The problem as has already been pointed out, other footballers have probably got more extreme views than Dicanio has, but have never put it out there in the public domain to be dissected by the press and media. From Sunderland's perspective the timing couldn't have been worse, there was an EDL and a counter anti nazi league demo in Sunderland last friday, Milliband who was leaving the country anyway took his opportunity at another bit of self publicity and in turn the unions and local socialists are getting in on the act, however I suppose the biggest problem on the horizon is the possible loss of their 20 mill sponsorship deal with 'invest in Africa' and then finding a new sponsor who would publicly want to be associated with the shit storm that is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Cracking read. Thanks for posting. Got no time for fascists or fascism but there does seem more to him than than the headlines suggest. Certainly no racist as Chris Powell's comments would tend to support. I always found the America's treatment of Jesse Owen quite enlightening when compared to the attitude of Nazi Germany after his outstanding performance at the Berlin Olympic Games. It's very easy to label someone a fascist and join in a witch hunt, but still be blind to your own shortcomings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens Whether a fascist would be tolerated by City fans? English football hooligans have a long history of association with the far right and, sadly, City are no exception so probably. Though the fact Di Canio played for Celtic and not Rangers might confuse the **** out of most of them. He labelled himself a fascist I think you'll find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I would just like to congratulate Redeye on a job well done. Sets up a thread to provoke a reaction and is then nowhere to be seen!! You're an expert pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammyOne Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 SOD is a liberal!!!! Burn him!!!!1111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 The problem as has already been pointed out, other footballers have probably got more extreme views than Dicanio has, but have never put it out there in the public domain to be dissected by the press and media. From Sunderland's perspective the timing couldn't have been worse, there was an EDL and a counter anti nazi league demo in Sunderland last friday, Milliband who was leaving the country anyway took his opportunity at another bit of self publicity and in turn the unions and local socialists are getting in on the act, however I suppose the biggest problem on the horizon is the possible loss of their 20 mill sponsorship deal with 'invest in Africa' and then finding a new sponsor who would publicly want to be associated with the shit storm that is going on. Wasn't a greek player recently banned from international football for life for making a nazi salute? Anyway he is no worse then the EDL the muslim Brotherhood, and all the other extremest groups that we have to put up with sprouting their bullshit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 He labelled himself a fascist I think you'll find. I don't deny that. The point was in terms of how America, defender of the free world, took on Nazism yet still treated blacks in their own country as second class citizens. I'm sure PDC would still describe privately himself as fascist but just saying there is more to the man than what we are getting from the headlines. Whether that is enough to redeem him is up to everyone to decide for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I don't deny that. The point was in terms of how America, defender of the free world, took on Nazism yet still treated blacks in their own country as second class citizens. I'm sure PDC would still describe privately himself as fascist but just saying there is more to the man than what we are getting from the headlines. Whether that is enough to redeem him is up to everyone to decide for themselves. The point in terms of the USA is very true and well made and in some places not much better today sadly, but hey that is the USA for you, I will never forget the graphic films of New Orleans 2 weeks after Katrina with bodies still floating around it looked like the scene from a 3rd world country after a disaster, but portray themselves as the conscience of the world. I met an ex American diplomat once (probably CIA) he told me I have been involved 17 american conflicts and only been on the winning side once, that was in Grenada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Garlandinho Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 What's the problem? Not like the guy is a criminal! The media in this country is such a joke. Got a good record with Swindon, i think he will do really well at Sunderland, would happily take Di Canio as manager if we had a vacancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 If he had come out and said he had far left views Would anybody be saying anything about it? NO What, if he's come out and said he was a massive fan of, for example, Josef Stalin, arguably the biggest mass-murderer of all time? I imagine people would be pretty upset... This thread is both baffling and (in parts) disgusting. Benito Mussolini was an oppressive, megalomaniacal, murderer- a fact that Di Canio actually seems to be aware of, even if some of you aren't. If you were Italian he was probably great, but in the lands his army occupied during and prior to World War 2, he was responsible for summary execution, concentration camps, slave labour camps... Sound like any other facist leaders you can think of? His original ideology may have been different from Hitler (closer to Franco, but he wasn't exactly a nice chap) but by the end he was still the same desperate, bitter, mass-murderer. Undoubtedly there has been revision of history on both sides of the argument, but let us not forget that Italy ended the war on the side of the Allies and as always, the victor tends to write the history Aside from all this, the number of people stating that they "don't care about a managers political views as long as they keep them to themselves" is equally staggering. Firstly, PDC has been incredibly vocal about his political views, even If those views are misconstrued, but secondly how can people complain about the disassociation of club and fan and then say they don't care if the manager is a facist? The manager is the figurehead and spokesman of the club and for them to be overtly facist is very difficult in my opinion, more so for a club with such working class, left-wing roots. Now fascism may be more of a working class idealism in Italy but this isn't Italy and those Sunderland fans who worked in the now quiet shipyards or went on strike against Thatcher are probably feeling like they have very little in common with their club any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Seen the headline in the Daily Fail today? To be fair that guy is a James Blunt of epic proportions. He should hang! Oops sorry that may be interpreted as having fascist leanings or whatever that means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 He labelled himself a fascist I think you'll find. Tony Blair labelled himself a socialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 He labelled himself a fascist I think you'll find. Tony Blair labelled himself a socialist. or was it Christian Democrat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedminster Born And Red Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Excuse my cynicism but it seems to me that it's OK for a "fascist" to manage little old Swindon Town in League 1 but as soon as they are invited into the Money Grabbing Big Boys Global Exposure League it actually matters that they made a mistake in airing their political views ten years ago? Is that what we are arguing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 He labelled himself a fascist I think you'll find. Tony Blair labelled himself a socialist. or was it Christian Democrat? Then again, perhaps it was liar and capitalist warmonger middle east peace envoy . These political labels just get so confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 As someone who has previously been involved in left-wing politics at something above the grassroots level, I still hold firm to the basic principle that freedom of speech is paramount. I would only deny a platform to someone who was advocating a policy that I thought was potentially illegal. I am not sure what Paolo Di Canio means when he uses the word 'fascist' (after all, it is not a word that is used very much these days) but I think it is likely that I would be unable to separate his views from the most extreme wings of the Tory party (I see what the Tories have done to the welfare system in the last few weeks as essentially 'fascist' in intention). However, if a fascist like George Osborne can be Chancellor of the Exchequer, then it is difficult to say that Paolo Di Canio can't be manager of Sunderland. At least Di Canio knows something about football, which gives him the edge over Osborne who clearly knows sod all about economics. If, on the other hand, Di Canio openly advocated racism, then that would be unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Aside from all this, the number of people stating that they "don't care about a managers political views as long as they keep them to themselves" is equally staggering. Firstly, PDC has been incredibly vocal about his political views, even If those views are misconstrued, but secondly how can people complain about the disassociation of club and fan and then say they don't care if the manager is a facist? The manager is the figurehead and spokesman of the club and for them to be overtly facist is very difficult in my opinion, more so for a club with such working class, left-wing roots. Now fascism may be more of a working class idealism in Italy but this isn't Italy and those Sunderland fans who worked in the now quiet shipyards or went on strike against Thatcher are probably feeling like they have very little in common with their club any more Sounds to me like you are getting offended on behalf of Sunderland fans? Let them make their own minds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 As someone who has previously been involved in left-wing politics at something above the grassroots level, I still hold firm to the basic principle that freedom of speech is paramount. I would only deny a platform to someone who was advocating a policy that I thought was potentially illegal. I am not sure what Paolo Di Canio means when he uses the word 'fascist' (after all, it is not a word that is used very much these days) but I think it is likely that I would be unable to separate his views from the most extreme wings of the Tory party (I see what the Tories have done to the welfare system in the last few weeks as essentially 'fascist' in intention). However, if a fascist like George Osborne can be Chancellor of the Exchequer, then it is difficult to say that Paolo Di Canio can't be manager of Sunderland. At least Di Canio knows something about football, which gives him the edge over Osborne who clearly knows sod all about economics. If, on the other hand, Di Canio openly advocated racism, then that would be unacceptable. An Italian Fascist is different to what we hold as fascist- It's more similar ideology of a nationalist (power for the people at the top, less rights for immigrants etc) Which explains his "I'm fascist not racist" comment. I don't actually believe he is racist. However his opinions on Mussolini are staggering. The man was responsible for crushing all left wing and democratic liberties with force and then jollied up with Hitler because he thought the Germans were winning- Di Canio claims he is misunderstood and working towards a "higher purpose"!! I certainly wouldn't want him here and I know a lot voiced their concerns when it was mentioned he might. Edit: this has just appeared on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22017645 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridge Batch Red Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 An Italian Fascist is different to what we hold as fascist- It's more similar ideology of a nationalist (power for the people at the top, less rights for immigrants etc) Which explains his "I'm fascist not racist" comment. I don't actually believe he is racist. However his opinions on Mussolini are staggering. The man was responsible for crushing all left wing and democratic liberties with force and then jollied up with Hitler because he thought the Germans were winning- Di Canio claims he is misunderstood and working towards a "higher purpose"!! I certainly wouldn't want him here and I know a lot voiced their concerns when it was mentioned he might. Edit: this has just appeared on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22017645 I think Di Canio wants this to go away and get on with his job. By the way I propose a distinctly English form of fascism - one where people are polite to each other, have a stiff upper lip rather than blubbing x factor style, work hard, stop buying rubbish, excercise, eat vegetables and cook their own food, wait their turn in queues and keep their gardens tidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I thought the bit where he explained his reasons for giving fascist salutes, "I vos only obeying orders", was particularly revealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat23 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 f**Kin hell there's a lot of daily mail readers on here -does this sway any of your opinions maybe ......? http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/2644/paolo-di-canio-at-bomb-fascists-funeral#.UVwiq-DT2co.facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 It could have been worse, he could have said he was a long time admirer of Tony Blair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Sounds to me like you are getting offended on behalf of Sunderland fans? Let them make their own minds up. To a certain extent I am, though I was personally trying to get upset on behalf of left-leaning football fans. I don't like the idea that someone with the political views of Di Canio is involved in English football. I can't do anything about that other than get upset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat23 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 To a certain extent I am, though I was personally trying to get upset on behalf of left-leaning football fans. I don't like the idea that someone with the political views of Di Canio is involved in English football. I can't do anything about that other than get upset +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammyOne Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 To a certain extent I am, though I was personally trying to get upset on behalf of left-leaning football fans. I don't like the idea that someone with the political views of Di Canio is involved in English football. I can't do anything about that other than get upset Do you often get upset when someone's political stance isn't the same as yours? 'Anti-fascists' make me laugh sometimes; they're often just as fascist as the fascists themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Do you often get upset when someone's political stance isn't the same as yours? 'Anti-fascists' make me laugh sometimes; they're often just as fascist as the fascists themselves. What a ridiculous argument. So you aren't bothered by the political views of an Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin or even a Nick Griffin or any other figure of extreme political view? not comparing PDC with any of those but your argument is that I'm not allowed to have a view on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat23 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 'Anti-fascists' make me laugh sometimes; they're often just as fascist as the fascists themselves. i would like to agree with you but then i would be wrong as well proud to be red ....in every sense of the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 What delicious irony if Sunderland are relegated by Spurs on the last day of the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich-TWSC- Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 The fascism thing is a grizzly business. I'm glad we're out of that spotlight. It's not an easy situation for any fan because you simply cannot switch off your support for the football club. The funny thing about all this is that the sports media are focusing on the wrong things. If you're going to question or criticise Di Canio as a man/coach/whatever ask him about the countless fall-outs he has had with players and the many, many contract terminations (instead of selling players) that followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammyOne Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 What a ridiculous argument. So you aren't bothered by the political views of an Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin or even a Nick Griffin or any other figure of extreme political view? not comparing PDC with any of those but your argument is that I'm not allowed to have a view on them? For your information Hitler and Stalin are both dead, so no they don't bother me but the History does. As for Griffin, well no I don't care about his racist views either, he's never going to come to power. If he wants to have his heavily right-wing views then let him, if you want to suppress his views that makes YOU the fascist, in all sense of the word. No. I'm saying you're welcome to your own views, but stop you're suggesting PDC can't have his - it's making you look like a hypocrite. i would like to agree with you but then i would be wrong as well proud to be red ....in every sense of the word You One-team-in-Bristol lovin' commy bastard ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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