A Depressing Fact

[bristolcitysweden]

"Although everyone in the squad will take a significant reduction in wages in League One, the fact remains that if the new season started tomorrow, our contracted players would account for over 80 per cent of our budget.

High earners such as Sam Baldock, Liam Fontaine, Marvin Elliott and Neil Kilkenny will still be on the books and, unless they attract interest from other clubs and can be sold, it is difficult to see how O'Driscoll can oversee the significant overhaul that will be needed if City are to be successful in the third tier.

A piss poor runned club.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Selling-players-important-Sean-O-Driscoll-s/story-18845116-detail/story.html

[BCAGFC]

Think Baldocks wages doesn't count towards the wage cap next season or any player we signed last summer or this season.

[Jordan Tansley]

Think Baldocks wages doesn't count towards the wage cap next season or any player we signed last summer or this season.

I thought it was only last summer on 3 or more year contracts. Don't think this summer counts.

[bristolcitysweden]

Best we can hope for is paying 70 per cent of the sallary for the rest of their contracts should we be able to find them a new club.

Should limit the damage to 56 per cent of next seasons budget and give us a possibility to start the rebuild.

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[Nogbad the Bad]

So we sell.

Albert, Cunningham, Davies, perhaps Baldock, and any of Kilkenny, Fontaine etc that we can.

Hardly the end of the world providing we get reasonable offers, because in reality we have little cause to mourn the departure of most of these players.

Some, like Albert and Greg have done a lot better than most and remain popular, but they are all now tainted with failure after a season when the squad as a whole has let the fans down in despicable fashion.

Most of us would like to see a team containing 7 or 8 fresh faces next season, players who have chosen to play for Bristol City at our current level, at reasonable 3rd division wages the club can afford and the fans can tolerate.

[bristolcitysweden]

Sell and sell. We can sell Albert and possibly Cunningham but the rest with the money they are on? We should be happy just to get them out even though it ment paying 70 per cent of the sallary for the remaining part of the contract.

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[Timbo7]

If it is true that we have a 12 month amnesty on Baldock's and Cunningham's contracts in regard to the SCMP requirements it would be foolish for them to be involved in the fire-sale. For those two at least we can afford to hold out for an offer we can't refuse.

The problem we have for others is that any prospective buyer will be well aware of the need/desire to sell to free-up wage budget and hence any fee offer will be significantly discounted.

[Kid in the Riot]

So we sell.

Albert, Cunningham, Davies, perhaps Baldock, and any of Kilkenny, Fontaine etc that we can.

Hardly the end of the world providing we get reasonable offers, because in reality we have little cause to mourn the departure of most of these players.

Some, like Albert and Greg have done a lot better than most and remain popular, but they are all now tainted with failure after a season when the squad as a whole has let the fans down in despicable fashion.

Most of us would like to see a team containing 7 or 8 fresh faces next season, players who have chosen to play for Bristol City at our current level, at reasonable 3rd division wages the club can afford and the fans can tolerate.

But where are the suitors for these players?? We'll have to see but I see very few offers being made for our in-contract players.

As you say, they are tainted by at least a season's poor performance and subsequent relegation and that won't be lost on other clubs.

SOD is going to be seriously hamstrung next season. I can see, as has happened for the last couple of years, a couple of contracts being paid up in January 2014 to speed up the process of getting the last few wasters out of the club. Maybe even some mutual termination of contracts this summer is the answer?

We have to explore all options in terms of getting that wage bill down and being able to bring in some fresh faces.

[Nogbad the Bad]

But where are the suitors for these players?? We'll have to see but I see very few offers being made for our in-contract players.

As you say, they are tainted by at least a season's poor performance and subsequent relegation and that won't be lost on other clubs.

SOD is going to be seriously hamstrung next season. I can see, as has happened for the last couple of years, a couple of contracts being paid up in January 2014 to speed up the process of getting the last few wasters out of the club. Maybe even some mutual termination of contracts this summer is the answer?

We have to explore all options in terms of getting that wage bill down and being able to bring in some fresh faces.

I think Cunningham, Davies, certainly Albert, and perhaps Baldock are viewed in the football world, individually, as Championship class players.

I expect us to get offers for them, and only hope we'll hold our nerve and not take the first offer. In which case we should eventually get a reasonable price for each as the new season nears. Of course that scenario won't help early rebuilding.

I've no answer to Fontaine, Kilkenny, Foster etc, it's hard to see any demand for them at all and they'll clearly be much harder to shift.

[bristolcitysweden]

Most companys separately highlight reconsructrion costs saying hey ho this is a one time cost for getting a better future.

We can't afford to start another season with the dross.

Get them out.

Now.

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[bristolcitysweden]

What part of Woolfords sallary are we paying Millwall.

80 per cent?

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[Nogbad the Bad]

Pay off the ones who are holding the club back and hang on to those you mentioned - they'll be on reduced money but they're under contract.

That's an ideal scenario but realistically if reasonable offers come in the players will want to go.

In the final analysis if our valuation is met the club won't force unsettled players to stay when they have the opportunity of higher league football.

The players we might most want to stay are the ones least likely to be here, so it's a matter of getting the best possible deal for the club.

[East End Old Boy]

Think Baldocks wages doesn't count towards the wage cap next season or any player we signed last summer or this season.

It might not, but it's a significant expense and will, accordingly, reduce further new player opportunities.

[Kibs]

Listening to SO'D's interview the other night, It sounds to me like Baldock is one of the players he is really hoping to keep.

[WTFiGO!?!]

But where are the suitors for these players?? We'll have to see but I see very few offers being made for our in-contract players.

As you say, they are tainted by at least a season's poor performance and subsequent relegation and that won't be lost on other clubs.

SOD is going to be seriously hamstrung next season. I can see, as has happened for the last couple of years, a couple of contracts being paid up in January 2014 to speed up the process of getting the last few wasters out of the club. Maybe even some mutual termination of contracts this summer is the answer?

We have to explore all options in terms of getting that wage bill down and being able to bring in some fresh faces.

I wouldn't be against the idea of part-financing players' wages just to get them out the club. But, as you say, who's gonna fancy the likes of Richard Foster even at league 2 level?

The more I think about it, the more de

[WTFiGO!?!]

*bloody technology

The more I think about it, the more depressing the decision-making and direction of the club is apparent.

Out of hope only I suggest we've hit rock bottom, now. But the sedentary is still with us as are the same charges that've got us in the shit.

[TRL]

*bloody technology

The more I think about it, the more depressing the decision-making and direction of the club is apparent.

Out of hope only I suggest we've hit rock bottom, now. But the sedentary is still with us as are the same charges that've got us in the shit.

Don't bet on it, ffp still has its course to run, and jobs for the boys in charge. I reckon we have a season or two to hit the depths

[WTFiGO!?!]

Don't bet on it, ffp still has its course to run, and jobs for the boys in charge. I reckon we have a season or two to hit the depths

Any reason for hope after your suggested 'season or two' there, TRL? I s'pose the stock answer would be: ''##### knows, time will tell''. Have you any faith in SOD or is the club too cancerous for any green shoots, for you?

Be interested to know, fella?

[TRL]

Any reason for hope after your suggested 'season or two' there, TRL? I s'pose the stock answer would be: ''##### knows, time will tell''. Have you any faith in SOD or is the club too cancerous for any green shoots, for you?

Be interested to know, fella?

I think the board have no clue, maybe after a season or two, they will have learnt the ropes. FFP is as new to us as it is to them. Running a football club is still new to all these guys as well. I think there will be a load more cock ups before we see real progress. They have constantly made cockups since they came in (the new regime under SL) and have had to back track on many initiatives already. I can only see it getting worse before it gets better.

Either way, I am really not confident in any short term success,Ii wouldn't be surprised a year or two down the line, SL replaces a lot of the current board.

[WTFiGO!?!]

Are you going to be in ownership of a 13/14 season ticket, may I ask?

Can't see an old dog learning new tricks myself, either. Still, a lot is to be argued for chaos theory, law of averages etc.

[havanatopia]

Most companys separately highlight reconsructrion costs saying hey ho this is a one time cost for getting a better future.

We can't afford to start another season with the dross.

Get them out.

Now.

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I do like the conjugation of your first sentence; you could almost use that as a first line of a poem.

[havanatopia]

I think the board have no clue, maybe after a season or two, they will have learnt the ropes. FFP is as new to us as it is to them. Running a football club is still new to all these guys as well. I think there will be a load more cock ups before we see real progress. They have constantly made cockups since they came in (the new regime under SL) and have had to back track on many initiatives already. I can only see it getting worse before it gets better.

Either way, I am really not confident in any short term success,Ii wouldn't be surprised a year or two down the line, SL replaces a lot of the current board.

I do not believe it is particularly fair to suggest our chairman is new to this game.

As for not understanding FFP; if they do not understand it then we are in deepest 5-hit.

Somehow, I think we will come up smelling of roses and it will not be because of a fire sale.

[friendlygas]

I think you will find that paying up a players contract does not then allow you to use that wage again to purchase another player. You have to actually get rid of the player by selling or transferring by free transfer. It would seem to me that based on the figures bounded about on here that if 80% of your current wage bill is in contracted players and some of these players don't move on then you, like Swindon and several others will have a transfer embargo applied until your wage is below the 60%.

I have to say that the reasoning behind FFP is good but not sure they have it right. I look particularly at a team like Bournemouth who came out of administration and seem to be able to spend and spend. Portsmouth seem to be the only club who have REALLY suffered by going into administration. Look at Swindon, Bournemouth, Port Vale, Southampton etc and they seem to have come out smelling of roses.

[Nibor]

I think you will find that paying up a players contract does not then allow you to use that wage again to purchase another player. You have to actually get rid of the player by selling or transferring by free transfer. It would seem to me that based on the figures bounded about on here that if 80% of your current wage bill is in contracted players and some of these players don't move on then you, like Swindon and several others will have a transfer embargo applied until your wage is below the 60%.

I have to say that the reasoning behind FFP is good but not sure they have it right. I look particularly at a team like Bournemouth who came out of administration and seem to be able to spend and spend. Portsmouth seem to be the only club who have REALLY suffered by going into administration. Look at Swindon, Bournemouth, Port Vale, Southampton etc and they seem to have come out smelling of roses.

It does actually, if done before the season start date. Also it's not FFP in league one and two, it's SCMP. FFP is quite different.

Administration is usually a free ticket to write off debt, which is why clubs come out of it well. However if they don't solve the underlying management problems they end up back there soon enough.

There are a number of things SL can do to make SCMP much less of an issue, he can artificially bump the club's revenue up and he can load contracts up with promotion bonuses that aren't paid until the following season for two examples.

SCMP will force us to clear the shite out but more importantly it will force us to use young players and be more careful about acquisition which we've needed for a long time. We won't be suffering embargos.

[friendlygas]

Theres some interesting points there Nibor. I have to admit I have never really understood these rules other than when we had 11 players on the treatment table we were very close to our limit and were very restricted in what we could sign.

[TRL]

Are you going to be in ownership of a 13/14 season ticket, may I ask?

Can't see an old dog learning new tricks myself, either. Still, a lot is to be argued for chaos theory, law of averages etc.

No I won't. I will more than likely be staying away until there is big change. So unfortunately it will just be radio coverage for me.

[Nibor]

I think any contracts to be paid up will be paid up on June 30th since I imagine that's the last date you can spend without it counting to SCMP.

It won't stop us arranging incoming transfers before that.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Reading SOD's comments after the Huddersfield game where he has pinpointed the consistency and character problems of some players (no names but most know who they are) not just in games but also in training, it wouldn't surprise me if some contracts were fully paid up as soon as possible, certainly before pre-season and a must before the start of the season.

We need to keep those of the right calibre in terms of talent and character and getting rid of the wasters is an absolute priority.

I'd start by offering Stead a decent salary and the captaincy as a reward for his input - keep him here, he's become important to us. And, although I am totally against jobs for the boys, sentiment etc, and I've said to get rid in the past, Carey has also emerged as an important factor. Keep him on for another year for division three.

If we can keep Heaton plus a solid midfielder (Kelly may emerge as that) we then have a decent backbone to the team.

I haven't been a great advocate of Stead who in my opinion has shown he is not capable of maintaining the bursts of good form/great effort that endear him to so many fans for more than half a dozen games at a time. With so many experienced players now likely to leave things are different and I can see he might well be a good character to keep, while making a big enough on field contribution to justify retention. However there can be no exceptions when it comes to salaries - SO'D has more or less stated there won't be - he stays within the new wage structure or not at all.

As for Carey, nothings changed imo, his time at BCFC should now be a distant memory. I can't agree at all that 'he's emerged as an important factor' when he's made just 14 apps. and is clearly on his last legs. There is no justification at all for a new contract and I see his departure as a very important statement from the club that they mean business when it comes to starting afresh.

We need new centre backs, not forever putting off permanently strengthening such a vital area, because, 'oh well, we've always got Louis Carey'.

Keeping him as an occasional filler in (all he could possibly be) could be put down to nothing but the inability to let go, exactly the sort of indecisive and unprofessional club mindset that we need to see the back of.

[Davros]

"Although everyone in the squad will take a significant reduction in wages in League One, the fact remains that if the new season started tomorrow, our contracted players would account for over 80 per cent of our budget.

High earners such as Sam Baldock, Liam Fontaine, Marvin Elliott and Neil Kilkenny will still be on the books and, unless they attract interest from other clubs and can be sold, it is difficult to see how O'Driscoll can oversee the significant overhaul that will be needed if City are to be successful in the third tier.

A piss poor runned club.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Selling-players-important-Sean-O-Driscoll-s/story-18845116-detail/story.html

I would be amazed if we didn't have relegation clauses.

[Nogbad the Bad]

With regard to Carey, I agree with what you say and I did say the same in my post, but we are now in the third division and I think he can do one more season at that level if he uses his experience to good effect. We need another couple of centre backs, but it aint easy to get them - especially now, and we need a fall back and he's emerged as the prime candidate (going by SODs words).

We can't cut too deep..

With regard to Carey, I agree with what you say and I did say the same in my post, but we are now in the third division and I think he can do one more season at that level if he uses his experience to good effect. We need another couple of centre backs, but it aint easy to get them - especially now, and we need a fall back and he's emerged as the prime candidate (going by SODs words).

We can't cut too deep..

Really? I missed that - did he mention LC specifically?

Forgetting personal opinions:

SO'D has chosen not to pick Carey recently - for whatever reason preferring Bates. We don't know how highly SO'D actually rates Carey - but it seems not enough to include him when the chips are down and our most reliable players most needed.

Carey came on for what appeared to be a farewell appearance late on against Huddersfield - certainly it was greeted as such by the fans.

He's only made 14 apps. this season following on from just 22 & 22 in each of the previous 2, so he's very much in decline fitness and appearance wise. He may well still be up to 3rd division football in ability but it seems very likely his availability for selection will decrease even further rather than the opposite.

A new contract just doesn't make sense. City need to build the team around 2 younger and fitter centre backs and need reliable back up should they be unavailable rather than a veteran whose lack of consistent fitness will always make him a doubt to play more than a couple of games at a time - presuming he's actually fit when required.

This season was his 'filling in' season and it's extremely debatable whether he's been worth this contract, let alone another one.