Academy Bid

[RedRock]

Anyone else concerned about what we're doing as set out in the Fans Parliament minutes?

Never been a supporter of the Academy from Day 1 (one of the few - at the time - allies of Aston Yate RIP) ... but £1.3 million per year? That'll pay for five top notch scouts plus buying a minimum of four League 1 first teamers (of which two will, on the law of averages, prove a good investment).

Add to that 35 employees and a one zillion page bid document. OK the figures seemingly include the Community bit but it's all OTT to me.

Anyhow, seems SL remains committed and the bid team appear to be enthused and working hard. So let's look forward to 2 'products' per year breaking into the first team and us turning into Crewe Mk2.

Nice to be in a position to write off £15 million plus we've wasted since its establishment.

[M.D]

So, theres no future in youth then?

[Ian M]

Seeing as we'll be spending pretty much bang on the 60% of turnover we will be allowed to spend in L1 on wages that £1.3m will not buy us ANY extra players. I believe expenditure on youth development (and training facilities?) is exempt from all FFP calculations. So if Steve is happy to fund it, why not have it and hope that one day we follow Cardiff or Southampton's examples and unearth/develop some actual gems.

[fl22]

Anyone else concerned about what we're doing as set out in the Fans Parliament minutes?

Never been a supporter of the Academy from Day 1 (one of the few - at the time - allies of Aston Yate RIP) ... but £1.3 million per year? That'll pay for five top notch scouts plus buying a minimum of four League 1 first teamers (of which two will, on the law of averages, prove a good investment).

Add to that 35 employees and a one zillion page bid document. OK the figures seemingly include the Community bit but it's all OTT to me.

Anyhow, seems SL remains committed and the bid team appear to be enthused and working hard. So let's look forward to 2 'products' per year breaking into the first team and us turning into Crewe Mk2.

Nice to be in a position to write off £15 million plus we've wasted since its establishment.

One of the reasons Bristol City is where it is. Ignore local talent and let it be developed by other clubs to their advantage. Meanwhile lets but players from other clubs who are expensive and of lesser quality than that what we need. Bizarre!!

[djb6162]

Anyone else concerned about what we're doing as set out in the Fans Parliament minutes?

Never been a supporter of the Academy from Day 1 (one of the few - at the time - allies of Aston Yate RIP) ... but £1.3 million per year? That'll pay for five top notch scouts plus buying a minimum of four League 1 first teamers (of which two will, on the law of averages, prove a good investment).

Add to that 35 employees and a one zillion page bid document. OK the figures seemingly include the Community bit but it's all OTT to me.

Anyhow, seems SL remains committed and the bid team appear to be enthused and working hard. So let's look forward to 2 'products' per year breaking into the first team and us turning into Crewe Mk2.

Nice to be in a position to write off £15 million plus we've wasted since its establishment.

No not concerned at all, i am more concerned with fans like you who have absolutely no idea on how to run a sustainable and robust business.

Whats your alternative then , clearly you would scrap investment in young players, i mean what the hell do we want to mess about with developing our own payers, proud to wear the shirt and all that nonsense ?

perhaps we should invest that1.5m in paying wages for another baldock and davies ?

What lessons if any have you learned from last season ?

Very worrying!

[Sleepy1968]

Anyone else concerned about what we're doing as set out in the Fans Parliament minutes?

Never been a supporter of the Academy from Day 1 (one of the few - at the time - allies of Aston Yate RIP) ... but £1.3 million per year? That'll pay for five top notch scouts plus buying a minimum of four League 1 first teamers (of which two will, on the law of averages, prove a good investment).

Add to that 35 employees and a one zillion page bid document. OK the figures seemingly include the Community bit but it's all OTT to me.

Anyhow, seems SL remains committed and the bid team appear to be enthused and working hard. So let's look forward to 2 'products' per year breaking into the first team and us turning into Crewe Mk2.

Nice to be in a position to write off £15 million plus we've wasted since its establishment.

One of Bristol City's main failings over recent history has been the abject failure of the youth system. We are 12 months into an evolving regime and Academy Category Two status should put us in the position to bring through quality players at a cost that is a fraction of the cost of recruiting like players in an open market. In fact long term it will give us the best chance of competing at the highest level possible. Its a serious business and cannot and will not be allowed to fail.

And in any case I would rather watch locally produced talent than most of the incepid under-achieving wasters and big money charlies current clogging up the first team squad.

[Mr Mosquito]

Anyone else concerned about what we're doing as set out in the Fans Parliament minutes?

Never been a supporter of the Academy from Day 1 (one of the few - at the time - allies of Aston Yate RIP) ... but £1.3 million per year? That'll pay for five top notch scouts plus buying a minimum of four League 1 first teamers (of which two will, on the law of averages, prove a good investment).

Add to that 35 employees and a one zillion page bid document. OK the figures seemingly include the Community bit but it's all OTT to me.

Anyhow, seems SL remains committed and the bid team appear to be enthused and working hard. So let's look forward to 2 'products' per year breaking into the first team and us turning into Crewe Mk2.

Nice to be in a position to write off £15 million plus we've wasted since its establishment.

Like Ashton Yate used to write - bless him - I'm also wondering about the quality of the actual footballing product produced by the academy. An academy that's failed to produce the players capable of helping keep us in the second tier of English football.

[Ian M]

Like Ashton Yate used to write - bless him - I'm also wondering about the quality of the actual footballing product produced by the academy. An academy that's failed to produce the players capable of helping keep us in the second tier of English football.

RG, you'll have noticed that the ones starting to come through now are greater in number than in recent seasons (Bryan, Reid, Burns, Ajala) & it's been said over the last week that if you get a chance to pop up to some Academy games, check out the U14s & U15s (15s & 16s next season) as these boys look pretty impressive.

[Mr Mosquito]

RG, you'll have noticed that the ones starting to come through now are greater in number than in recent seasons (Bryan, Reid, Burns, Ajala) & it's been said over the last week that if you get a chance to pop up to some Academy games, check out the U14s & U15s (15s & 16s next season) as these boys look pretty impressive.

Let's hope that those young 'uns - in 6 years time - are doing their bit playing for City in the Championship.

[chipdawg]

Anyone else concerned about what we're doing as set out in the Fans Parliament minutes?

Never been a supporter of the Academy from Day 1 (one of the few - at the time - allies of Aston Yate RIP) ... but £1.3 million per year? That'll pay for five top notch scouts plus buying a minimum of four League 1 first teamers (of which two will, on the law of averages, prove a good investment).

Add to that 35 employees and a one zillion page bid document. OK the figures seemingly include the Community bit but it's all OTT to me.

Anyhow, seems SL remains committed and the bid team appear to be enthused and working hard. So let's look forward to 2 'products' per year breaking into the first team and us turning into Crewe Mk2.

Nice to be in a position to write off £15 million plus we've wasted since its establishment.

Because buying journeymen players with no connection to the club whatsoever has worked well for us so far, hasn't it?! You can't compare the amateurish crap that's gone before to what City are trying to achieve with the academy. Look at the most succesful teams in Europe in recent years- all built on a spine of local talent. I'm not saying we'll be like Barcelona, but on a less expansive scale, that's what we're trying to do. It's short sighted to ignore our youth set up now

[TRL]

RG, you'll have noticed that the ones starting to come through now are greater in number than in recent seasons (Bryan, Reid, Burns, Ajala) & it's been said over the last week that if you get a chance to pop up to some Academy games, check out the U14s & U15s (15s & 16s next season) as these boys look pretty impressive.

Trouble is we always have impressive looking youngsters. That has never been the problem. The problem is they never become impressive pros.

Reid has been lauded for the past 3 to 4 years, but all he has ever got is a couple of last game of the season outings.

Burns a couple of sub appearances and some underwhelming games in non league. Bryan probably has the best chance.

To be honest proof is in the pudding, and dessert is still stuck in the kitchen.

[fl22]

Trouble is we always have impressive looking youngsters. That has never been the problem. The problem is they never become impressive pros.

Reid has been lauded for the past 3 to 4 years, but all he has ever got is a couple of last game of the season outings.

Burns a couple of sub appearances and some underwhelming games in non league. Bryan probably has the best chance.

To be honest proof is in the pudding, and dessert is still stuck in the kitchen.

Agree with this. Big leap of faith but I honestly think it's worth taking and actually there is no alternative.

[RedRock]

Our £15 million, 10 year plus sustainable growth strategy ain't worked so far has it?

No, I wouldn't be buying championship journeymen or talentless, homesick Scots for that matter either.

I'd be investing a top quality scouting system that would be picking up young talent from lower leagues in England & Wales. Far more examples of hungry, talented, fully physically developed and mentally, well-balanced lower league players who've come through to become established Championship/League 1 players than in-house developed academy products. A Burnley forward originating from Poole Town ring any bells?

Been banging on about 'leaders' for many seasons as well. Let's hope the management team have belatedly identified that as a priority now as well.

[Bowie]

RG, you'll have noticed that the ones starting to come through now are greater in number than in recent seasons (Bryan, Reid, Burns, Ajala) & it's been said over the last week that if you get a chance to pop up to some Academy games, check out the U14s & U15s (15s & 16s next season) as these boys look pretty impressive.

Ajala & Burns.....Funny you should mention then, neither went through the whole academy system and were players that was picked up due to good scouting.

Ajala - done the rounds in non league till we got him, Burns was let go by Cardiff at 16 from their academy.

I'm reallystuck with the academy, I can see the point of it and everything it means, HOWEVER £1.3m per year, that does concern me.

The academy is all good, but it's been running for years now, with little long term results, hopefully Ried & Bryan will come good however Burns and Ajala are equal example of making sure you have good scouting.

£1.3m per year.....I'm not convinced.

[Mr Mosquito]

Our £15 million, 10 year plus sustainable growth strategy ain't worked so far has it?

No, I wouldn't be buying championship journeymen or talentless, homesick Scots for that matter either.

I'd be investing a top quality scouting system that would be picking up young talent from lower leagues in England & Wales. Far more examples of hungry, talented, fully physically developed and mentally, well-balanced lower league players who've come through to become established Championship/League 1 players than in-house developed academy products. A Burnley forward originating from Poole Town ring any bells?

Been banging on about 'leaders' for many seasons as well. Let's hope the management team have belatedly identified that as a priority now as well.

What you write makes sense to me. A top quality scouting system is the way forward for this club because I really don't believe there are enough quality young players in the Bristol area to make an academy a success. Success being enough players to mature as decent Championship players. Historically, you can count the number of top quality players actually from Bristol on one hand. I can only think of Eddie Hapgood and the Mabbutt's being Bristolians that have made it to England international level.

[Portland Bill]

Our £15 million, 10 year plus sustainable growth strategy ain't worked so far has it?

No, I wouldn't be buying championship journeymen or talentless, homesick Scots for that matter either.

I'd be investing a top quality scouting system that would be picking up young talent from lower leagues in England & Wales. Far more examples of hungry, talented, fully physically developed and mentally, well-balanced lower league players who've come through to become established Championship/League 1 players than in-house developed academy products. A Burnley forward originating from Poole Town ring any bells?

Been banging on about 'leaders' for many seasons as well. Let's hope the management team have belatedly identified that as a priority now as well.

I presume your talking about Charlie Austin,the same Charlie Austin that started his career in the Reading FC youth set up!

He's only as good as he is now because he got taught the proper things at a Pro club to start with.

Exactly the same things as our young lads are no doubt being taught.

[RedRock]

Charlie Austen indeed.

Clearly, Reading didn't think his academy training worked and, as a consequence, didn't offer a contract.

Therefore. I speculate to suggest he developed his natural ability and mental edge post Academy.

[North London Red]

I can only think of Eddie Hapgood and the Mabbutt's being Bristolians that have made it to England international level.

You can add Roy Bentley, Keith Curle, Larry Lloyd, Geoff Bradford, Jack Butland and of course Billy Wedlock to the list. I believe there are 15 overall.

There was an article in an England home programme about 3 or 4 years ago that analysed every player to ever play for England by place of birth. I'm sure there were 14 from Bristol at the time; Butland has since made his full debut (the first Bristolian since Keith Curle in 1992).

[North London Red]

You can add Roy Bentley, Keith Curle, Larry Lloyd, Geoff Bradford, Jack Butland and of course Billy Wedlock to the list. I believe there are 15 overall.

There was an article in an England home programme about 3 or 4 years ago that analysed every player to ever play for England by place of birth. I'm sure there were 14 from Bristol at the time; Butland has since made his full debut (the first Bristolian since Keith Curle in 1992).

This has got me wondering who the missing seven are (15 overall, six quoted above plus Mabbutt and Hapgood as mentioned by Red Goblin).

A quick bit of googling adds Joe Cottle (capped whilst a BCFC player, also played in the 1909 cup final), Ronnie Dix, Phil Taylor (who won the league as a player with Liverpool, and went on to manage them), Charles Wreford-Brown and Stanley Harris to the list.

Anyone got any more?

[GrahamC]

Arthur Milton?

[fka dagest]

Cliff Britton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Britton

[Timbo7]

Anyone else concerned about what we're doing as set out in the Fans Parliament minutes?

Never been a supporter of the Academy from Day 1 (one of the few - at the time - allies of Aston Yate RIP) ... but £1.3 million per year? That'll pay for five top notch scouts plus buying a minimum of four League 1 first teamers (of which two will, on the law of averages, prove a good investment).

Add to that 35 employees and a one zillion page bid document. OK the figures seemingly include the Community bit but it's all OTT to me.

Anyhow, seems SL remains committed and the bid team appear to be enthused and working hard. So let's look forward to 2 'products' per year breaking into the first team and us turning into Crewe Mk2.

Nice to be in a position to write off £15 million plus we've wasted since its establishment.

Om reading the minutes I also thought it seemed OTT. However, this seems to be more the product of the FA's requirements than anything Bristol City have elected to do, and I do follow the argument that if we want to attract the best prospects we have to be able to offer something matching the competition.

If SL is prepared to fund and the cost is excused from FFP (obviously it's excused from the SCMP cap) then I fully support it as (even if I wanted to, which I do not) we can no longer spend SL's wealth on players' wages, and perhaps we can hope for a brighter sustainable future.

[beaverface]

I may be wrong, but doesnt a lot/some of the Academy funding come from fans subscribing to the City Foundation?

So in this case the bill is being picked up by City fans who actually want the club to have an academy and develop its own players.

[Portland Bill]

Charlie Austen indeed.

Clearly, Reading didn't think his academy training worked and, as a consequence, didn't offer a contract.

Therefore. I speculate to suggest he developed his natural ability and mental edge post Academy.

No, they realised him because he wasn't big enough! Then he grew!!

[RedUn]

What you write makes sense to me. A top quality scouting system is the way forward for this club because I really don't believe there are enough quality young players in the Bristol area to make an academy a success. Success being enough players to mature as decent Championship players.

Scouting surely includes all age groups and where better to start than on your own doorstep, in the hinterland of one of the country's major conurbations?

Your analysis needs to include the players who have effectively driven past Bristol to get from where they grew up to where they made their name. Back in the day there was Trevor Francis, right now you can add Jack Butland and Gareth Bale! The point of the academy should always have been to recruit and develop the very best of talent so that its own reputation would carry on growing and attracting the best for the future.

To date I can't help feeling City have underplayed its role and sincerely hope the current rebirth yields better results and meets more receptive first team management attitudes to young players.

[Mr Mosquito]

This has got me wondering who the missing seven are (15 overall, six quoted above plus Mabbutt and Hapgood as mentioned by Red Goblin).

A quick bit of googling adds Joe Cottle (capped whilst a BCFC player, also played in the 1909 cup final), Ronnie Dix, Phil Taylor (who won the league as a player with Liverpool, and went on to manage them), Charles Wreford-Brown and Stanley Harris to the list.

Anyone got any more?

So, in over 100 years since Billy Wedlock played for England there have only been 14 other Bristolians that have graduated to play football for the full England international side. In all honesty, is it any surprise that the Gas have never played top flight English football and City have only managed 9 seasons in the top flight in City's 110+ years of league football ???!!!! Bristol is barren of top football talent and tens of £millions could be thrown at developing youth via an academy but if the local talent is not there to be developed then it'll be wasted. Still, better to have a good academy than have nothing but we can't expect much from it is my opinion.

[Mr Mosquito]

Scouting surely includes all age groups and where better to start than on your own doorstep, in the hinterland of one of the country's major conurbations?

Your analysis needs to include the players who have effectively driven past Bristol to get from where they grew up to where they made their name. Back in the day there was Trevor Francis, right now you can add Jack Butland and Gareth Bale! The point of the academy should always have been to recruit and develop the very best of talent so that its own reputation would carry on growing and attracting the best for the future.

To date I can't help feeling City have underplayed its role and sincerely hope the current rebirth yields better results and meets more receptive first team management attitudes to young players.

The best player we missed in recent times was Marcus Stewart. There's Jack Butland but he was developed by the Bristol-based Jamie Shore Academy according to wikipedia. "With no link to any one professional club, our aim is to put the interest of the players first, instead of those of a Professional Football Club".....that's the stated aim of the Jamie Shore Academy. Looks like the Jamie Shore academy didn't see fit to pass the talent that is Jack Butland onto this football club.....I wonder why?

[North London Red]

Arthur Milton?

Cliff Britton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Britton

Excellent stuff, thanks chaps.

[RedUn]

Bristol is barren of top football talent and tens of £millions could be thrown at developing youth via an academy but if the local talent is not there to be developed then it'll be wasted. Still, better to have a good academy than have nothing but we can't expect much from it is my opinion.

As mentioned earlier the catchment area for the academy should be far wider than just Bristol, after all Southampton's is, so is Crewe's and they are the academies we could and should be looking to emulate. That has been true for decades

[fl22]

As mentioned earlier the catchment area for the academy should be far wider than just Bristol, after all Southampton's is, so is Crewe's and they are the academies we could and should be looking to emulate. That has been true for decades

The catchment area is wider than Bristol. Alot of our players are from south Wales, there are players currently on trial from Yeovil and recent trialists have come from Man City, Reading and Arsenal. Bit depressing that people assume the worst about the club. If I was an Academy Player reading some if the posts on here I'd be quite disappointed.