Steven Davies

[hortonred]

Keep both their wages don't count to out salary cap next season

Both can score in the championship so logically both can score more in league 1

If we sell any striker it should be Taylor

That's a great idea.We have lost Stead so let's get rid of the only striker we have that can win a ball in the air and keep sick note Baldock and Davies who shows no fight or willingness to put a shift in for the team.Plus those two are also on considerably more wages.The logic is astounding.Get rid of Davies for starters and then review the situation..

[ciderbeans]

Having Davies in the team kills off the potential of baldock burns, krans and Taylor. Rid of him and allow the prospects to come through.

Starting partnership of Taylor baldock should be fine and krans, and burns as subs are good enough. We need to blood in youth, now is the time. Davies needs to be plying his trade In the championship

[TBW]

Taylor is shit. What is it everyone sees in him? He looks like a centre back. I'd much rather see him and Flint at the back.

Moloney - Flint - Taylor - Cunningham

[Tins]

Steven Davies gets a lot of slack, quality finisher although work rate isn't the best.

Same as Pitman and people are all moaning we shouldn't of let him go!

[Jordan Tansley]

Taylor is shit. What is it everyone sees in him? He looks like a centre back. I'd much rather see him and Flint at the back.

Moloney - Flint - Taylor - Cunningham

Because he can obviously tackle, mark, knows when to come to the ball and when to drop off.

One of the most idiotic suggestions I've seen and you persist with it, why?

He's a target man, he brings people in to play. Other than his ability to get into goal scoring positions nothing about his game is shit.

[JammyOne]

Because he can obviously tackle, mark, knows when to come to the ball and when to drop off.

One of the most idiotic suggestions I've seen and you persist with it, why?

He's a target man, he brings people in to play. Other than his ability to get into goal scoring positions nothing about his game is shit.

BUT WAHT ABOUT TEH GOALZ???????

No seriously, you're right. Taylor may not be a goal scorer but he is a damn good forward. He's the best man for holding up the ball and if played tactically he could be a key player for us next season. From what I can recall from memory, most of the games we won had Taylor in the team, at least in the first half of the season.

Oh and Taylor at CB?... :laugh:. Yeah OK.

[glynriley]

BUT WAHT ABOUT TEH GOALZ???????

No seriously, you're right. Taylor may not be a goal scorer but he is a damn good forward. He's the best man for holding up the ball and if played tactically he could be a key player for us next season. From what I can recall from memory, most of the games we won had Taylor in the team, at least in the first half of the season.

Oh and Taylor at CB?... . Yeah OK.

So were Foster and Fontaine.

[JammyOne]

So were Foster and Fontaine.

They were constants, not variables. Taylor didn't always play, but Foster and Fonts did.

[glynriley]

They were constants, not variables. Taylor didn't always play, but Foster and Fonts did.

True that !

You'll not convince me that Taylor is any good though , even Robbie Turner , who was seen as the "target man" , used to weigh in with a few goals.Ryan Taylor couldn't hit a cows ass with a handful of rice.

[Jordan Tansley]

True that !

You'll not convince me that Taylor is any good though , even Robbie Turner , who was seen as the "target man" , used to weigh in with a few goals.Ryan Taylor couldn't hit a cows ass with a handful of rice.

I don't think that's fair, it's not his finishing that lets him down, he just doesn't get into positions where he can trouble the keeper, with SOD providing some kind of training and improvement on movement he could easily add some goals to his game which is actually quite good.

If he was getting into a lot of goal scoring positions and missing I would agree though.

[glynriley]

I don't think that's fair, it's not his finishing that lets him down, he just doesn't get into positions where he can trouble the keeper, with SOD providing some kind of training and improvement on movement he could easily add some goals to his game which is actually quite good.

If he was getting into a lot of goal scoring positions and missing I would agree though.

Hardly a ringing endorsment JT , a 25 year old forward who needs to be trained how to get into goalscoring positions.

BTW , in his 26 appearances last season he had 12 shots , 3 of which were on target , so 75% of the time he can get into the right position he fails.

I know you rate him and that's the beauty of football I suppose , but I don't see anything more than a head on a stick , sorry.

[Jordan Tansley]

Hardly a ringing endorsment JT , a 25 year old forward who needs to be trained how to get into goalscoring positions.

BTW , in his 26 appearances last season he had 12 shots , 3 of which were on target , so 75% of the time he can get into the right position he fails.

I know you rate him and that's the beauty of football I suppose , but I don't see anything more than a head on a stick , sorry.

It might sound like I'm defending him beyond reason, but I think those stats speak for themselves in that he was asked to play a very selfless role when in the side, he plays with his back to goal and tries to bring either the midfield or his partner into play.

I don't think it was a coincidence that our best performances (at the very beginning of the season) were with him in the side. Not just the results, but the way we played throughout those early home games.

Next season is getting close to a 'make or break' season for Ryan though, he has to establish himself as a vital component in our team. I think SOD rates his contribution too, which is good.

I think he will play a role as part of a front three next season, hopefully with Burns and Baldock performing the 'inside forward' role. Either way I trust SOD.

[Corleone]

Taylor is the ONLY forward we have who can bully defenders....

He is superb in the air and has an excellent touch....the challenge for him is to get into better goalscoring positions because that is lacking in his game.

At the start of last season, notBly Cardiff and Palarse.....Taylor BATTERED their defences really struggled to handle him.

I personally think Taylor could be a real handful at league 1 level, I think he is well worth keeping.

[alexukhc]

I don't think Taylor got much out of last season, when SOD came in he was unlucky cuz of the injury, yet we was already pretty much down when he came back, there was no pride out there, he was helpless to the cause

[Nibor]

Taylor is the ONLY forward we have who can bully defenders....

Taylor is the kind of forward defenders LOVE to play against because they can let him do whatever he likes safe in the knowledge he isn't going to score or create shit, because he almost never does.

People on this forum massively overvalue the appearance of hard work over results. Davies is about ten times the player Taylor will be at his peak.

[Corleone]

Taylor is the kind of forward defenders LOVE to play against because they can let him do whatever he likes safe in the knowledge he isn't going to score or create shit, because he almost never does.

People on this forum massively overvalue the appearance of hard work over results. Davies is about ten times the player Taylor will be at his peak.

I'm not talking About hard work....in talking Boug his ability to bully defenders....and from what I have seen, and I have seen a LOT of him...at the beginning of this season he was causing defences a lot of problems.

[Jordan Tansley]

I'm not talking About hard work....in talking Boug his ability to bully defenders....and from what I have seen, and I have seen a LOT of him...at the beginning of this season he was causing defences a lot of problems.

Pointless replying pal.

[Timbo7]

We don't need to sell him, his salary doesn't count towards FFP for the next season so we may as well keep him (same with Baldock)

Could you enlighten us on why you believe Davies' wages are excluded from SCMP calculations?

As far as I am aware this is all based on a Stockhausen article which vaguely referred to players under 24 on contracts of three years or more - Cunningham being the only example stated. Even on the assumption that for once Stockhausen has accurately reported something - I understand that Davies was 24 (and not under 24) when he signed for us and his contract runs to 30 June 2015 which from late August 2012 is less than three years.

I would therefore be surprised if you are correct.

Perhaps it would be helpful if either the League or the Club could provide a complete explanation of the applicable SCMP rules???

[Timbo7]

Not sure I agree with you view about Davies and Baldock. Both will be a serious threat in League 1 if they can both stay fit. Baldock in particular had a persistent calf problem last season which kept him out for several games and he was never quite right when he did play. Davies wasn't 100% fit at all last season largely because he was so out of shape and that's something the coaches will be working on preseason.

They didn't get to play together consistently enough last season as so didn't really have the time to build a partnership but next season my guess is that they'll be first choice. They are both good finishers and Baldock's movement is top drawer and Davies is technically excellent so all the ingredients are there for them both to be a success.

Although it is wrong to condemn either - there is some strong evidence to suggest that Davies was as fit last season as he ever gets AND that Baldock is somewhat prone to regular injuries - Perhaps we should not expect more than a few games here and there at peak fitness from either of them? Perhaps there are reasons for their apparent errors in judgement in joining a southbound club?

[Timbo7]

He can go back to Derby now if the rumor why he left is true

The "rumour why he left" had moved north to Lancashire before he left

[Corleone]

Really don't understand all this negativity towards Davies.

He was our top scorer in a crap side scoring 13 goals at championship level.....imagine what he could get in a good side at a inferior level. Easily 20+

[chipdawg]

Taylor is the kind of forward defenders LOVE to play against because they can let him do whatever he likes safe in the knowledge he isn't going to score or create shit, because he almost never does.

People on this forum massively overvalue the appearance of hard work over results. Davies is about ten times the player Taylor will be at his peak.

To be honest I think you're utterly wrong. Davies has much more ability on the ball but I don't think centre halves are exactly terrified of playing against him. He is creative and has a good shot from distance , but he isn't much of a 'mover' and isn't very quick so if you're a decent defender you push him into parts of the pitch where it's difficult for him to shoot from, safe in the knowledge that he's probably not going to run past you from 25 yards out. I have no stats to back it up, but I've always felt that Davies scores a lot of his goals towards the end of games against tiring defenders or when a game is stretched, i.e. When concentration drops and legs are tired. I'm not doubting the guys ability, but he is by no means a defenders nightmare

Taylor on the other hand doesn't have the quality on the ball that Davies has, certainly in terms of goal scoring, but as a defender playing against a 6'4", strong as an Ox type who's got a decent first touch, you know he's going to be able to receive and lay off or flick on the ball a lot and there's nothing you can do about it. As a team that's harder to defend against in many respects because you can't just defend Taylor you need to simultaneously defend the space where he's going to put the ball

He definitely needs to add more of a goal threat to his game though, I just think a spell at League 1 level is probably a good place for him to develop that

[Nogbad the Bad]

To be honest I think you're utterly wrong. Davies has much more ability on the ball but I don't think centre halves are exactly terrified of playing against him. He is creative and has a good shot from distance , but he isn't much of a 'mover' and isn't very quick so if you're a decent defender you push him into parts of the pitch where it's difficult for him to shoot from, safe in the knowledge that he's probably not going to run past you from 25 yards out. I have no stats to back it up, but I've always felt that Davies scores a lot of his goals towards the end of games against tiring defenders or when a game is stretched, i.e. When concentration drops and legs are tired. I'm not doubting the guys ability, but he is by no means a defenders nightmare

Taylor on the other hand doesn't have the quality on the ball that Davies has, certainly in terms of goal scoring, but as a defender playing against a 6'4", strong as an Ox type who's got a decent first touch, you know he's going to be able to receive and lay off or flick on the ball a lot and there's nothing you can do about it. As a team that's harder to defend against in many respects because you can't just defend Taylor you need to simultaneously defend the space where he's going to put the ball

He definitely needs to add more of a goal threat to his game though, I just think a spell at League 1 level is probably a good place for him to develop that

Unless Taylor's had a very unusual late growth spurt at the age of 25, he's still 6ft. 2", towering fully 1 inch above Steven Davies.

[Nibor]

To be honest I think you're utterly wrong. Davies has much more ability on the ball but I don't think centre halves are exactly terrified of playing against him. He is creative and has a good shot from distance , but he isn't much of a 'mover' and isn't very quick so if you're a decent defender you push him into parts of the pitch where it's difficult for him to shoot from, safe in the knowledge that he's probably not going to run past you from 25 yards out. I have no stats to back it up, but I've always felt that Davies scores a lot of his goals towards the end of games against tiring defenders or when a game is stretched, i.e. When concentration drops and legs are tired. I'm not doubting the guys ability, but he is by no means a defenders nightmare

Davies scored more goals in the first and middle third of games than the final third last season, so your feeling is inaccurate.

Taylor on the other hand doesn't have the quality on the ball that Davies has, certainly in terms of goal scoring, but as a defender playing against a 6'4", strong as an Ox type who's got a decent first touch, you know he's going to be able to receive and lay off or flick on the ball a lot and there's nothing you can do about it. As a team that's harder to defend against in many respects because you can't just defend Taylor you need to simultaneously defend the space where he's going to put the ball

He definitely needs to add more of a goal threat to his game though, I just think a spell at League 1 level is probably a good place for him to develop that

Taylor is 25 years old and has managed double figures once, in league two.

Davies is 25 years old and has managed double figures this season and the one before, in the Championship.

If you look at goals and assists vs minutes on the field the difference is even more stark.

What a number of posters seem not to realise is that Taylor's "hard work" is exactly the reason why he carries no threat. He is deep and wide all the time, never in the box. That would be perfectly fine if he scored 10 or so from range and through his touch and vision created opportunities for someone else but the simple fact is he doesn't. I know he has a fan club, and Jordan is the chief cheerleader of it, any player who works hard will get that. Unfortunately a striker who doesn't score or create goals is of no use to us.

Players like Davies and Pitman look to some eyes like they're lazy or lack workrate, but what they actually do is make sure they're in a position to break the line or get on the end of a cross when it counts. That's why they score goals. It always strikes me as a little strange that this is overlooked, and also that the work they do (and Davies does the target man role better than Taylor if you look at retained possession) is never acknowledged just because they haven't covered as much of the pitch. Touching every blade of grass is not a useful trait in a forward at all.

[Corleone]

Davies scored more goals in the first and middle third of games than the final third last season, so your feeling is inaccurate.

Taylor is 25 years old and has managed double figures once, in league two.

Davies is 25 years old and has managed double figures this season and the one before, in the Championship.

If you look at goals and assists vs minutes on the field the difference is even more stark.

What a number of posters seem not to realise is that Taylor's "hard work" is exactly the reason why he carries no threat. He is deep and wide all the time, never in the box. That would be perfectly fine if he scored 10 or so from range and through his touch and vision created opportunities for someone else but the simple fact is he doesn't. I know he has a fan club, and Jordan is the chief cheerleader of it, any player who works hard will get that. Unfortunately a striker who doesn't score or create goals is of no use to us.

Players like Davies and Pitman look to some eyes like they're lazy or lack workrate, but what they actually do is make sure they're in a position to break the line or get on the end of a cross when it counts. That's why they score goals. It always strikes me as a little strange that this is overlooked, and also that the work they do (and Davies does the target man role better than Taylor if you look at retained possession) is never acknowledged just because they haven't covered as much of the pitch. Touching every blade of grass is not a useful trait in a forward at all.

You clearly haven't seen a great deal of Taylor.

While I prefer Davies as a goalscorer, I have no idea where you have got the idea that he is a better "target man", in fact I think it's complete nonsense. The fact that Taylor is only 1 inch taller than Davies yet looks double the size highlights how he is superior performing that role.

Davies has class, too much class for league 1, but Taylor offers us a target man who brings people into play, And IMO I haven't seen any city player bully like he did at the start of the season.....something thT took me by massive suprise, (bold statement I know).

I think Taylor, like Davies will play vital roles for us next season.....and judging by SODs comments he feels exactly the same.

[Fiale]

To be honest I think you're utterly wrong. Davies has much more ability on the ball but I don't think centre halves are exactly terrified of playing against him. He is creative and has a good shot from distance , but he isn't much of a 'mover' and isn't very quick so if you're a decent defender you push him into parts of the pitch where it's difficult for him to shoot from, safe in the knowledge that he's probably not going to run past you from 25 yards out. I have no stats to back it up, but I've always felt that Davies scores a lot of his goals towards the end of games against tiring defenders or when a game is stretched, i.e. When concentration drops and legs are tired. I'm not doubting the guys ability, but he is by no means a defenders nightmare

Taylor on the other hand doesn't have the quality on the ball that Davies has, certainly in terms of goal scoring, but as a defender playing against a 6'4", strong as an Ox type who's got a decent first touch, you know he's going to be able to receive and lay off or flick on the ball a lot and there's nothing you can do about it. As a team that's harder to defend against in many respects because you can't just defend Taylor you need to simultaneously defend the space where he's going to put the ball

He definitely needs to add more of a goal threat to his game though, I just think a spell at League 1 level is probably a good place for him to develop that

This, and those using the cringing word "Target man" - yes we are in league 1, but it's not 1990 anymore - and I sure as hell hope we are not going to be playing the type of football that needs a "target man" next season.....

[Nibor]

You clearly haven't seen a great deal of Taylor.

While I prefer Davies as a goalscorer, I have no idea where you have got the idea that he is a better "target man", in fact I think it's complete nonsense. The fact that Taylor is only 1 inch taller than Davies yet looks double the size highlights how he is superior performing that role.

Davies has class, too much class for league 1, but Taylor offers us a target man who brings people into play, And IMO I haven't seen any city player bully like he did at the start of the season.....something thT took me by massive suprise, (bold statement I know).

I think Taylor, like Davies will play vital roles for us next season.....and judging by SODs comments he feels exactly the same.

I've seen pretty much every home game and a few away.

If you watch (and actually keep track of) what happens when the ball is played to Taylor, and to Davies, (and Stead who is twice as good as either of them at being the focal point for play) it should be obvious how I've got the idea.

Taylor doesn't bring people into play much because he loses possession too often. You can get some DVDs and count it yourself if you like.

[Jordan Tansley]

This, and those using the cringing word "Target man" - yes we are in league 1, but it's not 1990 anymore - and I sure as hell hope we are not going to be playing the type of football that needs a "target man" next season.....

The position of target man has many variables. Playing with a target man does not necessarily mean long balls aimed at someone's head.

It can, and should, mean playing the ball into feet or the body of a strong player who plays with their back to goal, offering a pivot for attacks. The ball goes in to him, back into midfield and then forward from a much more advanced position than originally.

Your false nine striker is that sort of player. Michu being the best example in English football. He plays deep, with his back to goal, brings the midfield in and spins forward into the space vacated by centre back who has invariably closed him down near the half way line. Brilliant football, the type I long to see at AG.

[chipdawg]

Unless Taylor's had a very unusual late growth spurt at the age of 25, he's still 6ft. 2", towering fully 1 inch above Steven Davies.

My bad, though I'd say that's an even greater indictment of Davies' aerial ability

[Son of Fred]

This, and those using the cringing word "Target man" - yes we are in league 1, but it's not 1990 anymore - and I sure as hell hope we are not going to be playing the type of football that needs a "target man" next season.....

...watched some of the league 1 play off stuff and frankly considering these were a few of the better sides in that division it seems light years away from the Championship in terms of quality-very physical are the words that spring to mind!...a treat playing there it ain't gonna be.