Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Several things struck me over the the Archbishop of Canterbury's faux pas reference wonga and revelations of the companies that the church actually has investments in including wonga . Firstly the church should IMO keep out of politics and get it's own 'house' in order (pun intended) and it usually ends in embarrassment. Secondly as with the catholic church and many other religions it seems to me that somewhere along the line the religious aspect of the church has been lost to it's corporate side and thirdly given that the C of E of is always crying poor (especially when a church roof is leaking) who is their target audience for donations? quite often the poorer in society, now we know the extent of it's wealth perhaps the church should put it's hand it's own pocket a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 True but you can't fault them for providing a more socially responsible service in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 True but you can't fault them for providing a more socially responsible service in this instance. I have no problem whatsoever (although I can't get of my mind the idea of a couple of vicars turning up threatening to break your legs when you don't pay up) I think the phrase you are looking for maybe 'archbishops in glass churches, shouldn't cast the first stone, without checking one is on terra firma', Denis Thatcher when asked about his timidness with the press famously said 'better be thought a fool than open your mouth and have it confirmed' and in this case you would have thought either he would have checked against any embarrassing conflict of interest or his advisors would have warned him, the problem being in this case the media have now unearthed a whole raft of seemingly 'unethical' investments by the church, ooops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 No doubt embarrassing and some serious questions asked/bollockings handed out through this. But, you'd be foolish to be hoarding that amount of money, letting it decrease in value. By failing to invest it is also failing to aid global economic growth. It is virtually impossible to invest money in shares with assured ethical implications so complex economics is, remember the church were only indirectly involved with wonga, so indirectly the archbishop didn't even know it! The assumption that it's the poorest that fill the coffers on a Sunday whip round is subjective. There are plenty of wealthy worshipers out there who I suspect contribute the lions share nationally. Finally, offering financial advice and support through their own buildings, their own time and their own people (a BCFC lawyer is a church goer, for example) is a good thing, religiously/politically orientated or not. Offering 2000% interest to people already clearly struggling to cope financially, for purely business reasons, is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 The new Church guy is outspoken and thats fine, morally Wonga and their ilk should be closed down, but because there is no law its all fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 The new Church guy is outspoken and thats fine, morally Wonga and their ilk should be closed down, but because there is no law its all fine. Outspoken or stupid?, the church is indirectly investing in wonga and it's boss didn't know FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Can anybody tell me why praying to their god needs to be funded? I didn't notice it in the ten commandments. I honestly can't see any difference in the church and wonga, both take advantage of the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy31 Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Denis Thatcher when asked about his timidness with the press famously said 'better be thought a fool than open your mouth and have it confirmed' Wasn't that Abraham Lincoln? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Wasn't that Abraham Lincoln? Possibly, but I heard it from dear old Denis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Several things struck me over the the Archbishop of Canterbury's faux pas reference wonga and revelations of the companies that the church actually has investments in including wonga . Firstly the church should IMO keep out of politics and get it's own 'house' in order (pun intended) and it usually ends in embarrassment. Secondly as with the catholic church and many other religions it seems to me that somewhere along the line the religious aspect of the church has been lost to it's corporate side and thirdly given that the C of E of is always crying poor (especially when a church roof is leaking) who is their target audience for donations? quite often the poorer in society, now we know the extent of it's wealth perhaps the church should put it's hand it's own pocket a little more. My spin on this is that the Labour Party - and especially the former Tony Blair regime's - love affair with collectivist ideologies has lead to ever bigger government and the welfare-warfare state. Lead by the Marxist splinter group called the "Frankfurt School" the Chairman Mao style "long march through the institutions" has infiltrated every corner of British culture to corrupt traditional Christian values with "Political Correctness," (Political Correctness being another name for "Cultural Marxism"). Basically, I think that the 'holier than thou' PC Lib-Lab-Con politicians should keep out of church business and put their own house in order. Especially as Lib-Lab-Con politicians are always crying poor when it comes to voting themselves yet another stonking pay rise at the beleaguered taxpayers' expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Outspoken or stupid?, the church is indirectly investing in wonga and it's boss didn't know FFS. All the more reason to close them down. If they don't exist, it cant happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 All the more reason to close them down. If they don't exist, it cant happen. ..but, unfortunately, far worse things can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 ..but, unfortunately, far worse things can. Yep and sometimes within the confines of the church itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Which like every other Yep and sometimes within the confines of the church itself.which like every other institution has its problems and bad eggs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Wonga and religion are totally different. One preys on desperate and gullible people, manipulating their needs and weaknesses for vast financial gain. And the other is payday loan company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 No doubt embarrassing and some serious questions asked/bollockings handed out through this. But, you'd be foolish to be hoarding that amount of money, letting it decrease in value. By failing to invest it is also failing to aid global economic growth. It is virtually impossible to invest money in shares with assured ethical implications so complex economics is, remember the church were only indirectly involved with wonga, so indirectly the archbishop didn't even know it! The assumption that it's the poorest that fill the coffers on a Sunday whip round is subjective. There are plenty of wealthy worshipers out there who I suspect contribute the lions share nationally. Finally, offering financial advice and support through their own buildings, their own time and their own people (a BCFC lawyer is a church goer, for example) is a good thing, religiously/politically orientated or not. Offering 2000% interest to people already clearly struggling to cope financially, for purely business reasons, is not. Not sure I agree with "virtually impossible." Yes, it takes a great deal of oversight of one's portfolio, but it is achievable (with the obvious caveat that the control process needs to be strong.) Certain of the clients I deal with have investors that specify their funds can only be invested in ethical companies, with what constitutes ethical varying by investor: some don't want defence contractors, others don't want alcohol and tobacco companies: in each the manager needs to carve out portions of the portfolio to accommodate the investor's wishes, and then 3rd party consultants are engaged to audit the portfolio on a periodic basis to ensure compliance. And yes, my job is at times as dull as that preceding paragraph sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Wonga and religion are totally different. One preys on desperate and gullible people, manipulating their needs and weaknesses for vast financial gain. And the other is payday loan company. Haha nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Wonga and religion are totally different. One preys on desperate and gullible people, manipulating their needs and weaknesses for vast financial gain. And the other is payday loan company. Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Wish I could take credit but stole it off FB, good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2013/07/25/wonga-com-offers-to-save-souls/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 ‘Customers will have the opportunity to offload short term guilt, but that will be set against the risk of eternal damnation’ Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Believesham Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Can anybody tell me why praying to their god needs to be funded? I didn't notice it in the ten commandments. I honestly can't see any difference in the church and wonga, both take advantage of the poor. Churches still have to pay for things, and unfortunately sunday morning collections don't touch the sides in most places so they are funded by their regions which make losses and in turn need to be funded by their national bodies. Heating in the buildings, paying the vicars, keeping the buildings clean, even volunteers would use the electricity, maintaining the building for safety. The church is at fault for investing immorally to make up for these losses but the profits go towards trying to sustain a dying church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2013/07/25/wonga-com-offers-to-save-souls/See that's all well and good, an I appreciate Dezgimreds joke. What doesn't make the news is the good churches do do for people's lives. The soup runs and hostels, the youth groups helping to keep kids out of trouble, services for the elderly, services for the incarcerated/imprisoned, people supported and hearts changed. Admittedly, the church does have a massive image problem. I have my own belief system going on that is private to me, I don't go to church but this cynical impression of the church isn't fairly counter-acted through mainstream mediums. That bloke was stupid 'waging war' on wonga. Enjoy the laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 See that's all well and good, an I appreciate Dezgimreds joke.What doesn't make the news is the good churches do do for people's lives. The soup runs and hostels, the youth groups helping to keep kids out of trouble, services for the elderly, services for the incarcerated/imprisoned, people supported and hearts changed. Admittedly, the church does have a massive image problem.I have my own belief system going on that is private to me, I don't go to church but this cynical impression of the church isn't fairly counter-acted through mainstream mediums. That bloke was stupid 'waging war' on wonga. Enjoy the laugh.All those good things are good things other organisations do without expecting belief in a contrived fiction, without an abusive power structure and without squatting on generations of accumulated land and wealth. The church, and all organised religions, are virulent harmful organisms that deserve derision and ridicule at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 All those good things are good things other organisations do without expecting belief in a contrived fiction, without an abusive power structure and without squatting on generations of accumulated land and wealth. The church, and all organised religions, are virulent harmful organisms that deserve derision and ridicule at the very least. Unfortunately there is a certain religion one is unable to ridicule as it leads to worldwide riots and many deaths. A religion, I'm afraid to say, which is incompatible with the British way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Unfortunately there is a certain religion one is unable to ridicule as it leads to worldwide riots and many deaths. A religion, I'm afraid to say, which is incompatible with the British way of life.There are many of those. Islam doesn't have a monopoly on crazy extremists by any stretch of the imagination.It's probably worth noting that Islam is prevalent in poorer or less developed countries with weaker education systems (chicken or egg I don't know) - people in these environments are vastly easier to manipulate which is the goal of every organised religion.A lot of the restrictions and abuses that followers of Islam put up with now are similar to ones followers of western religions put up with at earlier stages of development.Frankly, followers of all religions are mental cases that should be pitied and ridiculed in equal measure. I think indoctrinating children with any organised religion should be a serious crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 All those good things are good things other organisations do without expecting belief in a contrived fiction, without an abusive power structure and without squatting on generations of accumulated land and wealth. The church, and all organised religions, are virulent harmful organisms that deserve derision and ridicule at the very least. Indeed, although you might be laying yourself open to accusations of racism by denouncing one particular church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Frankly, followers of all religions are mental cases that should be pitied and ridiculed in equal measure. I think indoctrinating children with any organised religion should be a serious crime. As Richard Dawkins points out, it's a form of child abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridge Batch Red Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 There are many of those. Islam doesn't have a monopoly on crazy extremists by any stretch of the imagination. It's probably worth noting that Islam is prevalent in poorer or less developed countries with weaker education systems (chicken or egg I don't know) - people in these environments are vastly easier to manipulate which is the goal of every organised religion. A lot of the restrictions and abuses that followers of Islam put up with now are similar to ones followers of western religions put up with at earlier stages of development. Frankly, followers of all religions are mental cases that should be pitied and ridiculed in equal measure. I think indoctrinating children with any organised religion should be a serious crime. Islam is evil and a curse on humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Islam is evil and a curse on humanity.All organised religions are actually, no need to single one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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