headhunter Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 One player who particularly impressed me in the opening two games was Jordan Wynter so I could not believe it when I saw the teamsheet this afternoon and he was not in the starting line up. Wynter, Pack, and Elliott would have been my trio today with the ex Aresenal trainee playing in front of the defence allowing Pack the freedom to get forward and Elliott give the physical presence to counter Coventry's muscle. Can't fault the game for entertainment (I'd seen Villa beat Malaga 3-2 yesterday to begin the weekend goal fest!) but certain City players do my head in. Fielding makes Basso at his most erratic seem as secure as Banksy at his best (the keeper not the painter). What is the love in with Cunningham - poor today, very poor. Fontaine - confidence gone, gone, gone. Typical City, capable of lifting you up and then dropping you from a great height!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corleone Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 All good in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 One player who particularly impressed me in the opening two games was Jordan Wynter so I could not believe it when I saw the teamsheet this afternoon and he was not in the starting line up. Wynter, Pack, and Elliott would have been my trio today with the ex Aresenal trainee playing in front of the defence allowing Pack the freedom to get forward and Elliott give the physical presence to counter Coventry's muscle. Can't fault the game for entertainment (I'd seen Villa beat Malaga 3-2 yesterday to begin the weekend goal fest!) but certain City players do my head in. Fielding makes Basso at his most erratic seem as secure as Banksy at his best (the keeper not the painter). What is the love in with Cunningham - poor today, very poor. Fontaine - confidence gone, gone, gone. Typical City, capable of lifting you up and then dropping you from a great height!!! I was surprised he didn't start. I would of rather rested him for Gillingham and played him today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 He was 'tired' perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Tired, only young and not used to playing first team pro football. We can't rely on someone so young, it's a squad game in this physical league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinnionForEngland Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Will Hughes started playing at 16 or 17 consistantly for Derby in the Championship and he is now one of the best players in that league. If their good enough they are old enough, play your best team!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswoodactor Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Will Hughes started playing at 16 or 17 consistantly for Derby in the Championship and he is now one of the best players in that league. If their good enough they are old enough, play your best team!!! This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 Will Hughes started playing at 16 or 17 consistantly for Derby in the Championship and he is now one of the best players in that league. If their good enough they are old enough, play your best team!!! yeah, because everyone is exactly the same.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collier Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 So it's clear that you can be either too old or too young to play every week. Seems like a small window for a professional footballer to make his mark. Funny I never got tired when I was young. I could run around all day, play sat and twice on a sunday and still happily have a kick about every night with mates, wonder why?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 SOD has a lot of midfielders to keep happy, I expect to see see regular rotation in that area so no doubt Wynter will be back next weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinnionForEngland Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 SOD has a lot of midfielders to keep happy, I expect to see see regular rotation in that area so no doubt Wynter will be back next weekend Why should it be about 'keeping players happy'. If players have regularly under performed in a Bristol City shirt they do not deserve to play just because they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderJar Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Cunningham wasn't at his best. But then he was violently sick on the pitch just before kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wendall Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Has he said he was rested and just dropped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 A player doesn't score his first goal and then is tired! he would be raring to go, The lad is fit and should have started. SoD made a hash of this game, but hopefully will have learnt about different players who are just not consistent enough. The team selection obviously wrong and the tactics the manager set out as was seen by half time. A player of his age needs confidence, and not being being held back. As said so many times "If your good enough, your old enough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Why should it be about 'keeping players happy'. If players have regularly under performed in a Bristol City shirt they do not deserve to play just because they want to. Because we'll no doubt need them all over the course of the season. Even if we put the morale of squad players to one side, they all need to be comfortable playing with one another and as it stands, the combination on Sunday are quite evidently not. Is it better to just dispense of that midfield combo or try and get them comfortable with each others play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZoneJim Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 A player doesn't score his first goal and then is tired! he would be raring to go, The lad is fit and should have started. SoD made a hash of this game, but hopefully will have learnt about different players who are just not consistent enough. The team selection obviously wrong and the tactics the manager set out as was seen by half time. A player of his age needs confidence, and not being being held back. As said so many times "If your good enough, your old enough". Harsh as we were ok for the first half hour and had chances ourselves to take the lead. For all the narrow midfield talk, we played a narrow midfield on Tuesday and we produced an excellent passing performance. The difference here was we couldn't get fluid in the same way as at Gillingham and then struggled to adapt. Heads went when we conceded the pen and then after a mad 10 minutes we were inexplicably 3-0 down at half-time. He changed it at half time and we got back to 3-3 and then 4-4 with the comedy defending interludes. Not saying he got it spot on but he didn't 'make a hash' of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 O'Driscoll picked the team he wanted. The back five and front two were as expected, so O'Driscoll had to perm four from six in midfield. Bryan was always likely to miss out, and we know that Kilkenny would have been nailed on, so it was three from four, Wagstaff, Pack, Elliott, Wynter. I think the choice came down to Wynter or Wagstaff, and presumably Wagstaff got it because Wynter is not a wide player (he admitted himself in mid week that he'd never played wide right before). Wagstaff doesn't impress me. Him getting man of the match against Bradford was a complete joke, and I see too many similarities between him and Martin Woolford. I think right side of midfield is a problem at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BcfcLamb Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 what a stupid topic, you answer your own question in the title... Also would you not want him in the team for wolves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 A player doesn't score his first goal and then is tired! he would be raring to go, The lad is fit and should have started. SoD made a hash of this game, but hopefully will have learnt about different players who are just not consistent enough. The team selection obviously wrong and the tactics the manager set out as was seen by half time. A player of his age needs confidence, and not being being held back. As said so many times "If your good enough, your old enough". as SOD goes along with the squad game thing i guess thats it.im old school and like a manager to know his best side and when all are fit to play it.im sure he would have wanted to start and has played well previously so for me i wouldnt hold him back.Wynter new to the rigours of league football so maybe being eased into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted August 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 what a stupid topic, you answer your own question in the title... Also would you not want him in the team for wolves? Who are you to say this is a stupid topic? c20 people have taken the trouble to respond and hold something similar to my view which is that a 20 year old who has been probably one of the better players in the previous 2 games ought not really to be tired and would benefit from playing matches. Of course I want him in the team for Wolves - if he had played yesterday he would have had a week to recover!!!! Were you there yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisma_cider Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 SOD said that Wynter was rested because we need to be careful about relying on the youngest players, and shouldn't expect them to play every game at this stage. We don't know yet how JW will respond physically to a whole season of professional football, plus there's a danger of burning these players out by playing too many games too young. It's a long season, and we're going to need him just as much at the end as we do now. The Will Hughes comment is irrelevant as I'm doubting there's any knowledge on the lad's physical fitness abilities in comparison to JW, or any indication of what state the lad's going to be in at 25. Michael Owen commented that too many games in his teens may have contributed to his future injury problems. It's about working smart as opposed to working hard So there's the answer to your question. Also, Collier... with all due respect, a couple of games on a saturday and sunday plus a midweek kickabout is slightly different to the schedule of a professional athlete. But then maybe your kickabouts were more intense than mine are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 So it's clear that you can be either too old or too young to play every week. Seems like a small window for a professional footballer to make his mark. Funny I never got tired when I was young. I could run around all day, play sat and twice on a sunday and still happily have a kick about every night with mates, wonder why?? With respect!, I suspect your running around all day and having a kick about was about the extent of it! I believe that the point SOD's been making in his programme notes, Bountyhunter interview etc recently is that he wants and expects professional footballers to be doing a bit more than running around and having a kick about. And that means things like concentration, thinking, making judgemnets, making decisions, coping with pressure and so on - all of which are draining and are exhausting in their own way too. They're the things younger players struggle with, probably more than older ones - by the time you get to Harewood's age you've probably lost some of the physical side, to be able to keep going for 90 minutes etc, but you've developed some of the techniques to cope with the mental side of the game. Personally, I don't think SOD made a hash of it - as has been said, if we'd turned some of our good appraoch play in the first 20 mins into a goal then it would have been a different game. We needed someone to protect the defence (and Wynter did a great job v Bradford) but we should have someone else in the squad who can do that - Elliot or Kilkenny being the prime examples - and Kilkenny certainly didn't have his best game on Saturday. And I think SOD has the knowledge and the experience to manage young players in a way that will bring them through for the long term - and certainly no-one cam accuse him of not giving youth a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1970 Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 One player who particularly impressed me in the opening two games was Jordan Wynter so I could not believe it when I saw the teamsheet this afternoon and he was not in the starting line up. Wynter, Pack, and Elliott would have been my trio today with the ex Aresenal trainee playing in front of the defence allowing Pack the freedom to get forward and Elliott give the physical presence to counter Coventry's muscle. Can't fault the game for entertainment (I'd seen Villa beat Malaga 3-2 yesterday to begin the weekend goal fest!) but certain City players do my head in. Fielding makes Basso at his most erratic seem as secure as Banksy at his best (the keeper not the painter). What is the love in with Cunningham - poor today, very poor. Fontaine - confidence gone, gone, gone. Typical City, capable of lifting you up and then dropping you from a great height!!! I understand Coventry have a team full of hungry youth. I don't understand why we rest our hungry youth after 2 games. Wynter stood out for me against Bradford. We need to play our hungry youth. You say certain City players do your head in, one player does my head in and have done for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1970 Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 SOD has a lot of midfielders to keep happy, I expect to see see regular rotation in that area so no doubt Wynter will be back next weekend It's about getting results not about keeping players happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinnionForEngland Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 In short this is inexplicable the BCFC way and has been for ages, is a massive bugbear of mine And i have a feeling the same people who are saying the rest is well needed, will be the same people coming on here saying it was a big mistake in a few months time if things arn't going so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinnionForEngland Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 We've played 3 games. .Will Hughes managed around 38 last season at 18 only disrupted by injury and suspension iirc. City are always the freaking the same. Youth is general 20 plus rather than those under it. I have no idea where it came from but it completely totals our development as genuinely young players have 1st team games for the first team rather than benched or loaned for the bench elsewhere And you had it right when you said it's very much a BCFC thing, other teams will field their best players and will get success, whereas we may regret not doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collier Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 With respect!, I suspect your running around all day and having a kick about was about the extent of it! I believe that the point SOD's been making in his programme notes, Bountyhunter interview etc recently is that he wants and expects professional footballers to be doing a bit more than running around and having a kick about. And that means things like concentration, thinking, making judgemnets, making decisions, coping with pressure and so on - all of which are draining and are exhausting in their own way too. They're the things younger players struggle with, probably more than older ones - by the time you get to Harewood's age you've probably lost some of the physical side, to be able to keep going for 90 minutes etc, but you've developed some of the techniques to cope with the mental side of the game. Personally, I don't think SOD made a hash of it - as has been said, if we'd turned some of our good appraoch play in the first 20 mins into a goal then it would have been a different game. We needed someone to protect the defence (and Wynter did a great job v Bradford) but we should have someone else in the squad who can do that - Elliot or Kilkenny being the prime examples - and Kilkenny certainly didn't have his best game on Saturday. And I think SOD has the knowledge and the experience to manage young players in a way that will bring them through for the long term - and certainly no-one cam accuse him of not giving youth a chance. I wasn't trying to say that what I was doing was on par with what a professional athlete has to go through but imo, if a professional player who has a specific diet and professional training regime set out for them and is in peak physical condition, can't play at such a young age because of the reasons given then the world has gone mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collier Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 And you had it right when you said it's very much a BCFC thing, other teams will field their best players and will get success, whereas we may regret not doing the same. Yep because protecting our young players in the past has lead most of these players to go on to much bigger and better things. How many BCFC players that have gone on to be such successes have had to cut their careers short due to overplaying them at a young age, anyone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 We conceded 5 goals, most of which were down to a combination of awful defending and questionable keeping, yet some criticise the manager over which midfielder is left out. It may be a good thing for Jordan Wynter not to have been associated with it. He became a better player on Sunday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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