Gj At Yeovil

[CyderInACan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2392999/Gary-Johnson-living-Yeovil-Towns-impossible-dream-Championship.html

Decent article, not sure how they'll fare if the scout is as prolific at unearthing "talent" as he was here, mind.

Would like to see them do well though.

[ciderbeans]

They can probably only attract a certain level of player though. As they have no academy or youth teams, they can't exactly bring in quality youth for development and long term. The people they scout have to be good enough at that moment in time meaning they will have to pay more to get said players.

I don't think it will work very well for them

[BCFC_Dan]

I'm not sure why Pete Johnson gets such a bad rep on here. He had a couple of misses towards the end, particularly with foreign players, but by and large his strike rate was impressive, especially with lower league players.

Basso, McCombe and Elliot were all good signings who formed a solid spine of a decent team. Sproule and Showunmi were useful for a time. Henderson was a Johnson signing, even if he wasn't well utilized. Loan signings were hit and miss, but they can afford to be: Vasko was useful, Sno and Saborio were capable players who never really settled but that kind of thing happens.

Gary & Pete may not be the men to find players at the highest level but if you have a small club in the Championship they have a good record of uncovering lower league bargains who will compete.

[Philly The Kid]

The problem is that they're essentially building a base on shifting sand.

Because nothing is being done with an eye for the future, all decisions regarding player recruitment are with the short and medium term in mind. This can only be more expensive and provide solutions for the next three seasons maximum, it is essentially a gamble, because if the wheels come off and they get relegated, their player costs will far exceed their income, resulting in a huge risk to the clubs longer term future.

There is always this risk with small clubs who punch way above their weight. Even Wigan have an academy and have sought to bring players through because they know perfectly well that by just running a first and reserve team, there is absolutely no investment in the future.
I'm not getting into any potential argument about whether GJ did it the right way here, or whether it's the right way for Yeovil, but purely on the basis of logic, how can any club survive in the long term, when it's recruitment policy is very much a "live for the moment" thing.
Like most people, I was chuffed for Yeovil when they went up, because it shows that smaller clubs (for we are one), can achieve success. Whether that success can be sustained is another matter, and I can't see them lasting anymore than one or two seasons (tops) in the championship. If they start to spend in a reckless way to stave off any relegation threat, and then go down, the whole future of the club is exposed, and they don't have the option of unearthing a gem they can sell for good money.

Looking at it in a more cynical way, GJ knows he probably won't be there in 10 years time, so problems accruing now won't be his problem then, and he can walk away basking in the satisfaction that he gave success to a small club which people thought was unachievable. There is always a price to pay, we've found that out the hard way, so did Pompey, Wimbledon and a few others.
If I was a Yeovil fan, delighted though I would be about the coming season, I would still be seriously concerned at the long term future given that on a business level, they cannot sustain that level of operating cost.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

The problem is that they're essentially building a base on shifting sand.

Because nothing is being done with an eye for the future, all decisions regarding player recruitment are with the short and medium term in mind. This can only be more expensive and provide solutions for the next three seasons maximum, it is essentially a gamble, because if the wheels come off and they get relegated, their player costs will far exceed their income, resulting in a huge risk to the clubs longer term future.

There is always this risk with small clubs who punch way above their weight. Even Wigan have an academy and have sought to bring players through because they know perfectly well that by just running a first and reserve team, there is absolutely no investment in the future.

I'm not getting into any potential argument about whether GJ did it the right way here, or whether it's the right way for Yeovil, but purely on the basis of logic, how can any club survive in the long term, when it's recruitment policy is very much a "live for the moment" thing.

Like most people, I was chuffed for Yeovil when they went up, because it shows that smaller clubs (for we are one), can achieve success. Whether that success can be sustained is another matter, and I can't see them lasting anymore than one or two seasons (tops) in the championship. If they start to spend in a reckless way to stave off any relegation threat, and then go down, the whole future of the club is exposed, and they don't have the option of unearthing a gem they can sell for good money.

Looking at it in a more cynical way, GJ knows he probably won't be there in 10 years time, so problems accruing now won't be his problem then, and he can walk away basking in the satisfaction that he gave success to a small club which people thought was unachievable. There is always a price to pay, we've found that out the hard way, so did Pompey, Wimbledon and a few others.

If I was a Yeovil fan, delighted though I would be about the coming season, I would still be seriously concerned at the long term future given that on a business level, they cannot sustain that level of operating cost.

Agree with most of this, you've really highlighted the problems that GJ caused and how his legacy has resulted in us only now being able to properly rebuild. He brought us exciting and successful times but at what price, his management of football clubs is absolutely awful when you pull it apart as you have so constructively done.

I'd deco argue the point of Peter/Gary Johnson success in the transfer market, their record of bringing in successful strikers was woeful, especially on loan, Maynard being the exception and we paid through the nose for him too.

All in all I'm very glad he's at Yeovil and not here, SO'D way will hold this club in good stead for the future, he may not get GJ's success in the short term nut he will leave a far better taste in the mouth, IMHO.

[luke_bristol]

Let's not forget that although it was Coppell who signed Albert, it was Johnson who had him watched ahead of potentially signing him

[Red-Robbo]

The problem is that they're essentially building a base on shifting sand.

Because nothing is being done with an eye for the future, all decisions regarding player recruitment are with the short and medium term in mind. This can only be more expensive and provide solutions for the next three seasons maximum, it is essentially a gamble, because if the wheels come off and they get relegated, their player costs will far exceed their income, resulting in a huge risk to the clubs longer term future.

There is always this risk with small clubs who punch way above their weight. Even Wigan have an academy and have sought to bring players through because they know perfectly well that by just running a first and reserve team, there is absolutely no investment in the future.

I'm not getting into any potential argument about whether GJ did it the right way here, or whether it's the right way for Yeovil, but purely on the basis of logic, how can any club survive in the long term, when it's recruitment policy is very much a "live for the moment" thing.

Like most people, I was chuffed for Yeovil when they went up, because it shows that smaller clubs (for we are one), can achieve success. Whether that success can be sustained is another matter, and I can't see them lasting anymore than one or two seasons (tops) in the championship. If they start to spend in a reckless way to stave off any relegation threat, and then go down, the whole future of the club is exposed, and they don't have the option of unearthing a gem they can sell for good money.

Looking at it in a more cynical way, GJ knows he probably won't be there in 10 years time, so problems accruing now won't be his problem then, and he can walk away basking in the satisfaction that he gave success to a small club which people thought was unachievable. There is always a price to pay, we've found that out the hard way, so did Pompey, Wimbledon and a few others.

If I was a Yeovil fan, delighted though I would be about the coming season, I would still be seriously concerned at the long term future given that on a business level, they cannot sustain that level of operating cost.

I don't think spending in a reckless fashion is an option that's open to Yeovil - fortunately. Few Glovers fans think that they'll last more than a season or two in tier two. This, indeed, is their 'season in the sun'.

[Philly The Kid]

I don't think spending in a reckless fashion is an option that's open to Yeovil - fortunately. Few Glovers fans think that they'll last more than a season or two in tier two. This, indeed, is their 'season in the sun'.

A manager can be very persuasive!!, especially if the chairman thinks there is any hope they could survive.

He (chairman) is caught between two stools, don't take the gamble and be accused by fans, manager and others of being unambitious and wasting an opportunity, or take a risk, spend what the club doesn't have (on the basis that IF they survive, most of the money MAY be recouped) and be seen to have backed the manager to the hilt...

Lets be honest, none of us thought it was reckless when GJ was spending the clubs money and SL was backing him. I'm not critisicing either way, but with the benefit of hindsight, it clearly was. That's how easy it is to do it. If there is the slightest chance of Yeovil staying up by spending then it would take a brave chairman not to do it...fans almost demand it and it's easy to get caught up in riding the wave of emotion...

[Red-Robbo]

A manager can be very persuasive!!, especially if the chairman thinks there is any hope they could survive.

He (chairman) is caught between two stools, don't take the gamble and be accused by fans, manager and others of being unambitious and wasting an opportunity, or take a risk, spend what the club doesn't have (on the basis that IF they survive, most of the money MAY be recouped) and be seen to have backed the manager to the hilt...

Lets be honest, none of us thought it was reckless when GJ was spending the clubs money and SL was backing him. I'm not critisicing either way, but with the benefit of hindsight, it clearly was. That's how easy it is to do it. If there is the slightest chance of Yeovil staying up by spending then it would take a brave chairman not to do it...fans almost demand it and it's easy to get caught up in riding the wave of emotion...

True enough, Mr S. The difference in Gary's present situation though is that rather than dealing with the co-owner of the country's largest stockbroking business, he now deals with a chairman who made £60m by selling a chain of hardware stores.

[hippy273]

The problem is that they're essentially building a base on shifting sand.

Because nothing is being done with an eye for the future, all decisions regarding player recruitment are with the short and medium term in mind. This can only be more expensive and provide solutions for the next three seasons maximum, it is essentially a gamble, because if the wheels come off and they get relegated, their player costs will far exceed their income, resulting in a huge risk to the clubs longer term future.

There is always this risk with small clubs who punch way above their weight. Even Wigan have an academy and have sought to bring players through because they know perfectly well that by just running a first and reserve team, there is absolutely no investment in the future.

I'm not getting into any potential argument about whether GJ did it the right way here, or whether it's the right way for Yeovil, but purely on the basis of logic, how can any club survive in the long term, when it's recruitment policy is very much a "live for the moment" thing.

Like most people, I was chuffed for Yeovil when they went up, because it shows that smaller clubs (for we are one), can achieve success. Whether that success can be sustained is another matter, and I can't see them lasting anymore than one or two seasons (tops) in the championship. If they start to spend in a reckless way to stave off any relegation threat, and then go down, the whole future of the club is exposed, and they don't have the option of unearthing a gem they can sell for good money.

Looking at it in a more cynical way, GJ knows he probably won't be there in 10 years time, so problems accruing now won't be his problem then, and he can walk away basking in the satisfaction that he gave success to a small club which people thought was unachievable. There is always a price to pay, we've found that out the hard way, so did Pompey, Wimbledon and a few others.

If I was a Yeovil fan, delighted though I would be about the coming season, I would still be seriously concerned at the long term future given that on a business level, they cannot sustain that level of operating cost.

This is mostly how SL wants us to operate now, he wants more youth in the side although a few players have come from other youth academies. The likes of Joe Bryan and Wes Burns are slowly creeping into the side, and SOD is on board with all of this.

[bissellredhead]

The problem is that they're essentially building a base on shifting sand.

Because nothing is being done with an eye for the future, all decisions regarding player recruitment are with the short and medium term in mind. This can only be more expensive and provide solutions for the next three seasons maximum, it is essentially a gamble, because if the wheels come off and they get relegated, their player costs will far exceed their income, resulting in a huge risk to the clubs longer term future.

There is always this risk with small clubs who punch way above their weight. Even Wigan have an academy and have sought to bring players through because they know perfectly well that by just running a first and reserve team, there is absolutely no investment in the future.

I'm not getting into any potential argument about whether GJ did it the right way here, or whether it's the right way for Yeovil, but purely on the basis of logic, how can any club survive in the long term, when it's recruitment policy is very much a "live for the moment" thing.

Like most people, I was chuffed for Yeovil when they went up, because it shows that smaller clubs (for we are one), can achieve success. Whether that success can be sustained is another matter, and I can't see them lasting anymore than one or two seasons (tops) in the championship. If they start to spend in a reckless way to stave off any relegation threat, and then go down, the whole future of the club is exposed, and they don't have the option of unearthing a gem they can sell for good money.

Looking at it in a more cynical way, GJ knows he probably won't be there in 10 years time, so problems accruing now won't be his problem then, and he can walk away basking in the satisfaction that he gave success to a small club which people thought was unachievable. There is always a price to pay, we've found that out the hard way, so did Pompey, Wimbledon and a few others.

If I was a Yeovil fan, delighted though I would be about the coming season, I would still be seriously concerned at the long term future given that on a business level, they cannot sustain that level of operating cost.

Great post. Can you post more as its great to read some sense on here for a change

[BCFC_Dan]

The problem is that they're essentially building a base on shifting sand.

Because nothing is being done with an eye for the future, all decisions regarding player recruitment are with the short and medium term in mind. This can only be more expensive and provide solutions for the next three seasons maximum, it is essentially a gamble, because if the wheels come off and they get relegated, their player costs will far exceed their income, resulting in a huge risk to the clubs longer term future.

There is always this risk with small clubs who punch way above their weight. Even Wigan have an academy and have sought to bring players through because they know perfectly well that by just running a first and reserve team, there is absolutely no investment in the future.

I'm not getting into any potential argument about whether GJ did it the right way here, or whether it's the right way for Yeovil, but purely on the basis of logic, how can any club survive in the long term, when it's recruitment policy is very much a "live for the moment" thing.

Like most people, I was chuffed for Yeovil when they went up, because it shows that smaller clubs (for we are one), can achieve success. Whether that success can be sustained is another matter, and I can't see them lasting anymore than one or two seasons (tops) in the championship. If they start to spend in a reckless way to stave off any relegation threat, and then go down, the whole future of the club is exposed, and they don't have the option of unearthing a gem they can sell for good money.

Looking at it in a more cynical way, GJ knows he probably won't be there in 10 years time, so problems accruing now won't be his problem then, and he can walk away basking in the satisfaction that he gave success to a small club which people thought was unachievable. There is always a price to pay, we've found that out the hard way, so did Pompey, Wimbledon and a few others.

If I was a Yeovil fan, delighted though I would be about the coming season, I would still be seriously concerned at the long term future given that on a business level, they cannot sustain that level of operating cost.

We have to accept that it is almost impossible for a small club to sustain success. That, sad to say, is a fact these days.

That doesn't mean to say they cannot be both sustainable and successful, just that the success cannot be sustained.

The route that City are now adopting is a sensible use of money, and hopefully one that will one day establish City as a stable top-tier side, but it is still expensive. The long term investment in youth is too much for many smaller clubs to afford.

As you rightly point out, Yeovil will be hard pushed to remain in the Championship for more than a couple of seasons. They will need to keep a tight rein on spending to avoid getting into trouble but so long as they do that there should be no reason why they cannot enjoy themselves, then come back down again and regroup.

I admire what City are doing now. It's definitely the right thing to do. But football is also about fun and entertainment and long term planning isn't that much fun. If we accept that long term success is almost impossible for a small club then why bother with the long term? Set a playing budget each year that is affordable, sign the best players you can, and hope for a good year. If you can't get a competitive team on that budget then drop a division and try again. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[Philly The Kid]

We have to accept that it is almost impossible for a small club to sustain success. That, sad to say, is a fact these days.

That doesn't mean to say they cannot be both sustainable and successful, just that the success cannot be sustained.

The route that City are now adopting is a sensible use of money, and hopefully one that will one day establish City as a stable top-tier side, but it is still expensive. The long term investment in youth is too much for many smaller clubs to afford.

As you rightly point out, Yeovil will be hard pushed to remain in the Championship for more than a couple of seasons. They will need to keep a tight rein on spending to avoid getting into trouble but so long as they do that there should be no reason why they cannot enjoy themselves, then come back down again and regroup.

I admire what City are doing now. It's definitely the right thing to do. But football is also about fun and entertainment and long term planning isn't that much fun. If we accept that long term success is almost impossible for a small club then why bother with the long term? Set a playing budget each year that is affordable, sign the best players you can, and hope for a good year. If you can't get a competitive team on that budget then drop a division and try again. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I agree entirely, but that is somewhat simplistic!!

With the huge inflation of player wages (beyond any reasonable or sustainable amount), you get to a position where you have set yourself a playing budget (and, remember, there's no youth and minimal reserve team back up), and you simply cannot afford the quality you need to survive....

So you accept that you have to drop down a division, regroup, and try again....

EXCEPT, you still have several players on fat contracts that no one else wants and, whom you can't get rid of, so over time, that is a way of haemorrhaging whatever money is in the club, almost like the Chinese water torture, with solids!!

Unless you're like Peterborough, and have an (annoying) knack of finding non league players who you then turn into multi million pound sell ons, you really are asking for trouble. Throw in a few long term injuries and a few loans to get you out of trouble, and you can easily see why this stint in the championship, could well turn out to be a regrettable experience, business wise, for Yeovil.

Good luck to them, I don't begrudge them anything. Peterborough show that it can be done (although Gary and Pete aren't in Barry Fry's league when it comes to wheeling and dealing!!), but essentially, player wages will always determine, for the most part, whether a club can survive successfully in the modern era.

[BCFC_Dan]

I agree entirely, but that is somewhat simplistic!!

With the huge inflation of player wages (beyond any reasonable or sustainable amount), you get to a position where you have set yourself a playing budget (and, remember, there's no youth and minimal reserve team back up), and you simply cannot afford the quality you need to survive....

So you accept that you have to drop down a division, regroup, and try again....

EXCEPT, you still have several players on fat contracts that no one else wants and, whom you can't get rid of, so over time, that is a way of haemorrhaging whatever money is in the club, almost like the Chinese water torture, with solids!!

Unless you're like Peterborough, and have an (annoying) knack of finding non league players who you then turn into multi million pound sell ons, you really are asking for trouble. Throw in a few long term injuries and a few loans to get you out of trouble, and you can easily see why this stint in the championship, could well turn out to be a regrettable experience, business wise, for Yeovil.

Good luck to them, I don't begrudge them anything. Peterborough show that it can be done (although Gary and Pete aren't in Barry Fry's league when it comes to wheeling and dealing!!), but essentially, player wages will always determine, for the most part, whether a club can survive successfully in the modern era.

As I said, the trick is to be careful.

When City reached the playoff final, GJ rewarded a number of players with lucrative contracts. That, as you say, could be catastrophic for a club like Yeovil. Pay a bonus for doing well, by all means, and award new contracts with higher wages, but keep them short. If they accept that they can only sign players on two year contracts at most, maybe even just one year contracts, and take the risk of losing them, they minimise the risk of the problems you outlined. They'll miss out on big transfer fees maybe but they can still have success with minimal risk.

It's hard for any club to be a sustainable business these days, but it is possible to live more or less within ones means and still enjoy some success. It might be fleeting but it can be enjoyed without long term harm if done carefully.

Incidentally, whilst this may (or may not - I must admit I do not know much of their finances) be the case for Yeovil, I don't believe it is true of City. The overheads from maintaining a stadium like Ashton Gate and the limited revenue it provides would make it difficult for City to run it at a lower level (or really at any level). City have to invest and build or they will never be sustainable.

[Philly The Kid]

As I said, the trick is to be careful.

When City reached the playoff final, GJ rewarded a number of players with lucrative contracts. That, as you say, could be catastrophic for a club like Yeovil. Pay a bonus for doing well, by all means, and award new contracts with higher wages, but keep them short. If they accept that they can only sign players on two year contracts at most, maybe even just one year contracts, and take the risk of losing them, they minimise the risk of the problems you outlined. They'll miss out on big transfer fees maybe but they can still have success with minimal risk.

It's hard for any club to be a sustainable business these days, but it is possible to live more or less within ones means and still enjoy some success. It might be fleeting but it can be enjoyed without long term harm if done carefully.

Incidentally, whilst this may (or may not - I must admit I do not know much of their finances) be the case for Yeovil, I don't believe it is true of City. The overheads from maintaining a stadium like Ashton Gate and the limited revenue it provides would make it difficult for City to run it at a lower level (or really at any level). City have to invest and build or they will never be sustainable.

Absolutely, which is why Aston Vale is critical to the LONG TERM future of this club. Whilst a revamped Ashton Gate would provide increased revenues in the medium term, should success be achieved at premiership level then in order to maximise income streams the only long term answer is the Vale. The non football revenue it would attract, in itself would be substantial. Still, that's been debated ad nausea elsewhere!!

[SecretSam]

spasmchasm speaks wisely, I echo his sentiments

GJ based a lot of his squad on what had done well for him at Yeovil. How many was that, BTW? McIndoe, Sproule to name but two

[Chappers]

Lets be honest, none of us thought it was reckless when GJ was spending the clubs money and SL was backing him. I'm not critisicing either way, but with the benefit of hindsight, it clearly was. That's how easy it is to do it

Some of us were pointing out that it was unsustainable, and that building up a large squad of ordinary players, whilst ignoring youth, was a poor long-term policy. Losing Henderson because of a vanity signing was criminal, and GJ seems very pleased that Edwards got fed up being overlooked.

[Taylor10]

The problem is that they're essentially building a base on shifting sand.

Because nothing is being done with an eye for the future, all decisions regarding player recruitment are with the short and medium term in mind. This can only be more expensive and provide solutions for the next three seasons maximum, it is essentially a gamble, because if the wheels come off and they get relegated, their player costs will far exceed their income, resulting in a huge risk to the clubs longer term future.

There is always this risk with small clubs who punch way above their weight. Even Wigan have an academy and have sought to bring players through because they know perfectly well that by just running a first and reserve team, there is absolutely no investment in the future.

I'm not getting into any potential argument about whether GJ did it the right way here, or whether it's the right way for Yeovil, but purely on the basis of logic, how can any club survive in the long term, when it's recruitment policy is very much a "live for the moment" thing.

Like most people, I was chuffed for Yeovil when they went up, because it shows that smaller clubs (for we are one), can achieve success. Whether that success can be sustained is another matter, and I can't see them lasting anymore than one or two seasons (tops) in the championship. If they start to spend in a reckless way to stave off any relegation threat, and then go down, the whole future of the club is exposed, and they don't have the option of unearthing a gem they can sell for good money.

Looking at it in a more cynical way, GJ knows he probably won't be there in 10 years time, so problems accruing now won't be his problem then, and he can walk away basking in the satisfaction that he gave success to a small club which people thought was unachievable. There is always a price to pay, we've found that out the hard way, so did Pompey, Wimbledon and a few others.

If I was a Yeovil fan, delighted though I would be about the coming season, I would still be seriously concerned at the long term future given that on a business level, they cannot sustain that level of operating cost.

Great post.

Is the championship really that big a thing for Yeovil that they risk the future of the club? Don't get me wrong it's an incredible achievement but as you say is it worth giving up everything else for a few seasons? As a club they have made monumental progress from the non league days and it would be a real shame if all this hard work goes to waste.

Surely they have to be one of the only pro clubs going down this route?