Just Got John Beck; St. George's Park.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

I bring you great news! John Beck, the bloke that makes T. Pulis look like a cross between Pep Guardi-whatsisname and Sean O'Driscoll (am I seriously comparing Pep wotsit to Sean thingy...) is now employed coaching the future coaches. For the FA! Greg Dyke, your thoughts? You couldn't make it up...

[Red Ferret]

Why not? He was one of the first coaches in this country to Introduce proper diets, training techniques, fitness regimes, etc.

He did this in the old Division 4 with Cambridge at a time when the current champions of England (Arsenal) were full of drunks and bloaters

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

You'll have to tell me what those proper training techniques were. I would imagine the diet was heavily protein based, some red meat, done rare.

Why not? Where to begin?

[GrahamC]

What's Charles Hughes doing these days? Get him back!

[Aizoon]

I bring you great news! John Beck, the bloke that makes T. Pulis look like a cross between Pep Guardi-whatsisname and Sean O'Driscoll (am I seriously comparing Pep wotsit to Sean thingy...) is now employed coaching the future coaches. For the FA! Greg Dyke, your thoughts? You couldn't make it up...

John Beck? Didn't he manage the side that stuffed us after we won at Anfield? Colchester, was it?

[glynriley]

John Beck? Didn't he manage the side that stuffed us after we won at Anfield? Colchester, was it?

You're thinking of Cambridge after we beat Chelsea. I think.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

What's Charles Hughes doing these days? Get him back!

Looks like we have, GC. Did he ever go away?

Perhaps JBeck has done his time and been a model, repentant offender. A good advert for rehabilitation. He's starting a course, the end of this month. £900 if you fancy seeing for yourself. Then you could all come on here and, wearing your badge, tell SOD where he's going wrong

[Red Ferret]

You'll have to tell me what those proper training techniques were. I would imagine the diet was heavily protein based, some red meat, done rare.

Why not? Where to begin?

He used dieticians, specialist fitness coaches, statisticians, nutritionists, etc many years before it was commonplace to do so. He was one of the first managers to bring this to the modern game. Because of it his Cambridge side were one of the fittest in the land despite being in the bottom tier

Sure Cambridge played long ball but he is hardly going to be playing tikki takka football with Dion Dublin and John Taylor on his side is he. To take a team from the 4th Division to within a game of the old 1st Division is no mean feat.

W shouldn't he be give a chance with the FA to train our lower league players and coaches? He is an unorthodox coach with a winning mentality and certainly an interesting character

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Perhaps spending next Friday evening, and the following Tuesday, watching England might give anyone not sure one or two pointers.

[Roger Red Hat]

http://gu.com/p/3jak3

[Aizoon]

You're thinking of Cambridge after we beat Chelsea. I think.

Cambridge after Liverpool, perhaps?

[glynriley]

Cambridge after Liverpool, perhaps?

No, we beat Stockport 4-0 in the next round, then lost in a replay to Charlton.

We beat Chelsea in 88 then lost 5-1 at Cambridge in the 2nd replay.

[Aizoon]

No, we beat Stockport 4-0 in the next round, then lost in a replay to Charlton.

We beat Chelsea in 88 then lost 5-1 at Cambridge in the 2nd replay.

Right! Didn't Dublin score several?

[Cowshed]

W shouldn't he be give a chance with the FA to train our lower league players and coaches? He is an unorthodox coach with a winning mentality and certainly an interesting character

Because men like Beck have helped send football in this country backwards. I would take convincing that a man such as this should be allowed to take control of a kids team.

Under Beck's mantra - POMO [the position of maximum opportunity] passing to feet is wrong v introducing the ball through the air into the oppositions POMO [the position of maximum opportunity - last 30% of the pitch].

Beck fined players for passing sideways too often, he would not allow dribbling in 70% of the pitch, defenders and midfield players were instructed to play forwards and never dwell on the a ball, one touch and bang it into the POMO zone. It was % of the very worst.

Football in the UK has suffered due to the legacy left by Beck, Francis, Gould, Hughes [the inventor of POMO], Graham, Taylor, Wilkinson and all the others who favoured brawn, sweat and athleticism over basic core skills.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

He used dieticians, specialist fitness coaches, statisticians, nutritionists, etc many years before it was commonplace to do so. He was one of the first managers to bring this to the modern game. Because of it his Cambridge side were one of the fittest in the land despite being in the bottom tier

Sure Cambridge played long ball but he is hardly going to be playing tikki takka football with Dion Dublin and John Taylor on his side is he. To take a team from the 4th Division to within a game of the old 1st Division is no mean feat.

W shouldn't he be give a chance with the FA to train our lower league players and coaches? He is an unorthodox coach with a winning mentality and certainly an interesting character

Because those coaches will go off to coach young kids. It is not a winning mentality they need; they've already got it, or they haven't. Neither do they need anything unorthodox. They need to be able to control the ball, be able to pass it to a team mate, be able to hold onto it under pressure, play with their heads up, be encouraged to use their technical ability (skill) when appropriate. To love the ball. The opposite of what Beck coached at Cambridge, where players were rewarded for kicking it the longest (I kid ye not). Basic, simple stuff. Stuff Frank, Stevie, Milner, Ferd, even Rooney, the lot of them, fail to do when lumped together. If England were a club side, who would pay to watch them? Or even turn the tv on to watch them?

Perhaps John Beck has changed, but you have to wonder what sort of message this sends out. And what the thinking is, at the FA. Not only our mindset needs changing, Sean.

Is there no one else, a Dutchman, a Spaniard, the FA could find to fill this role?

[North London Red]

No, we beat Stockport 4-0 in the next round, then lost in a replay to Charlton.

We beat Chelsea in 88 then lost 5-1 at Cambridge in the 2nd replay.

The Chelsea game (FA Cup 4th round) was January 1990, during our promotion season. Video highlights here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9-1ZRpiox8

As you say, we faced Cambridge Utd at home in round 5, a great chance to make the quarter finals - but it all went up in smoke in the 2nd replay after a 5-1 defeat.

If memory serves, didn't they have a penalty shootout after the first replay at Cambridge to decide the location for the 2nd replay?

[Aizoon]

Because men like Beck have helped send football in this country backwards. I would take convincing that a man such as this should be allowed to take control of a kids team.

Under Beck's mantra - POMO [the position of maximum opportunity] passing to feet is wrong v introducing the ball through the air into the oppositions POMO [the position of maximum opportunity - last 30% of the pitch].

Beck fined players for passing sideways too often, he would not allow dribbling in 70% of the pitch, defenders and midfield players were instructed to play forwards and never dwell on the a ball, one touch and bang it into the POMO zone. It was % of the very worst.

Football in the UK has suffered due to the legacy left by Beck, Francis, Gould, Hughes [the inventor of POMO], Graham, Taylor, Wilkinson and all the others who favoured brawn, sweat and athleticism over basic core skills.

We used to call that "kick and rush". Still, it explains why the most talented striker of his generation got just 30 minutes in an England shirt

[Guest]

Do not understand the issue. Was, at the time, very forward thinking.

He isn't coming in to teach tactics, he's coming in to be a mentor and an old head. Someone who has been there, seen it and can pass on wisdom. He isn't coming in to say 'your best bet is to get your number 5 to hit at at a brick shi7 house playing number 9'.

[glynriley]

The Chelsea game (FA Cup 4th round) was January 1990, during our promotion season. Video highlights here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9-1ZRpiox8

As you say, we faced Cambridge Utd at home in round 5, a great chance to make the quarter finals - but it all went up in smoke in the 2nd replay after a 5-1 defeat.

If memory serves, didn't they have a penalty shootout after the first replay at Cambridge to decide the location for the 2nd replay?

Cheers, you've just made me feel 2 years younger.

[Aizoon]

Cheers, you've just made me feel 2 years younger.

Don't worry. Our next game will put those years back on you

[Cowshed]

Do not understand the issue. Was, at the time, very forward thinking.

He isn't coming in to teach tactics, he's coming in to be a mentor and an old head. Someone who has been there, seen it and can pass on wisdom. He isn't coming in to say 'your best bet is to get your number 5 to hit at at a brick shi7 house playing number 9'.

I would have an issue with anybody who cast aspersions on the way Brazil play, and used his goal keeper to free kicks in his half so he could get more players into the other half for the flick on.

He was not forward thinking, he was backward. Skill is not wrong.

[Guest]

I would have an issue with anybody who cast aspersions on the way Brazil play, and used his goal keeper to free kicks in his half so he could get more players into the other half for the flick on.

He was not forward thinking, he was backward. Skill is not wrong.

But in England, at the time, what was he up against? Like it or not he produced results and was not the only (now) dinosaur of that time to play that way.

Don't get me wrong I hate the style he implemented but as I see it he isn't being employed to train coaches on the style of football. He is there as a 'been-there-done-that' old head. It still isn't sure exactly how much influence he will have, or if it is more of your 'honourary' appointment.

As been pointed aboce, fitness and preparation side he was extraordinarily forward thinking.

If I was coaching a bottom tier Cambridge side of that era I'd probably have disciplined against being too individual because chances are, week in week out, you'd have been hacked and lost the ball.

He was a formidable man and if he can impart in young coaches his conviction that to me would be no bad thing.

You have to disregard his tactics at the time. Do you honestly think Pep Guardiola would rock up to the cabbage patch and advocate tikki-taki football playing around the mole-hills? He took his squad, in those circumstances, against those opposition and produced results. By whatever means necessary.

Now, it is a different ball, different player conditioning (which he was years ahead in driving), different universal style and different methods. To consider he'd possibly be advocating to play through, not via, midfield, to stifle a ball-playing centre back, or wingbacks in the modern game is pretty naïve.

[Portland Bill]

Don't forget the cold bucket of water treatment before the game,the, make sure there is some gravel on the ball ( when launching a long throw anywhere inside the opposition half, so if the defending centre half heads it away he gets gravel rash!).

Instead of passing to a team mate he made players kick for touch as close to the opposing teams corner flag as possible.

Every player should be over 6ft 3"! and other blatant gamesmanship tactics.

On another note, I'm pretty sure that Gary Johnson was one of his assistants at the time?

[Cowshed]

But in England, at the time, what was he up against? Like it or not he produced results and was not the only (now) dinosaur of that time to play that way.

Don't get me wrong I hate the style he implemented but as I see it he isn't being employed to train coaches on the style of football. He is there as a 'been-there-done-that' old head. It still isn't sure exactly how much influence he will have, or if it is more of your 'honourary' appointment.

As been pointed aboce, fitness and preparation side he was extraordinarily forward thinking.

If I was coaching a bottom tier Cambridge side of that era I'd probably have disciplined against being too individual because chances are, week in week out, you'd have been hacked and lost the ball.

He was a formidable man and if he can impart in young coaches his conviction that to me would be no bad thing.

You have to disregard his tactics at the time. Do you honestly think Pep Guardiola would rock up to the cabbage patch and advocate tikki-taki football playing around the mole-hills? He took his squad, in those circumstances, against those opposition and produced results. By whatever means necessary.

Now, it is a different ball, different player conditioning (which he was years ahead in driving), different universal style and different methods. To consider he'd possibly be advocating to play through, not via, midfield, to stifle a ball-playing centre back, or wingbacks in the modern game is pretty naïve.

Do you honestly think Pep Guardiola would rock up to the cabbage patch and advocate tikki-taki football playing around the mole-hills? No, but he would not base team selection on how far players could launch a football at throw ins, free kicks and in open play. Skill is not the enemy. Under Beck basic ability was frippery v muscle.

Cooper and Jordan used Kenny Stroud, Mark Gavins, Steve Neville, Alan Walsh ... Under Beck they would not have got a game.

Fitness and preparation ... Wow. Of course they had to be fit. They had to chase it. No pass and move it was punt and sprint. One of Beck set plays was lobbed thrown in to the keeper stationed outside the box and he volleyed it into the POMO. Another, deliberately kick the ball off pitch from own half into last 5% of pitch and station defenders in their half pressing the opposition. Backward then and should be condemned now.

To consider he'd possibly be advocating to play through, not via, midfield, to stifle a ball-playing centre back, or wingbacks in the modern game is pretty naïve .. Stoke, their former Manager possessed similar ideas.

Europe laughed at it, look at Europe now. And these people get top jobs ...

[Northern Red]

Don't forget the cold bucket of water treatment before the game,the, make sure there is some gravel on the ball ( when launching a long throw anywhere inside the opposition half, so if the defending centre half heads it away he gets gravel rash!).

Instead of passing to a team mate he made players kick for touch as close to the opposing teams corner flag as possible.

Every player should be over 6ft 3"! and other blatant gamesmanship tactics.

On another note, I'm pretty sure that Gary Johnson was one of his assistants at the time?

Correct, then took over as manager after Beck left.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Do not understand the issue. Was, at the time, very forward thinking.

He isn't coming in to teach tactics, he's coming in to be a mentor and an old head. Someone who has been there, seen it and can pass on wisdom. He isn't coming in to say 'your best bet is to get your number 5 to hit at at a brick shi7 house playing number 9'.

To me, the issue is, what have the FA learned from the past 30/40 years of English football, and the grinding, dismal, tedium that is the national team, one or two (1990 semi, v. Holland 96, Owen's goal v. Argies, anything else?) moments aside? The answer would appear to be nothing. What does this appointment project?

There has to be someone better equipped for this role, and the FA are not short of funds.

[GrahamC]

For those who say that playing the Beck/Pulis way with limited players is inevitable, I'm sure Rich, the regular Swindon fan on here will testify that Ardiles took over Macari's long ball hoofers and turned them into a prototype Swansea in pretty short order.

If you can coach it can be done.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

I believe it is easier to coach a get-the-ball-forward-quick, no need to think about it, style, than a "possession based" style of play, where players are encouraged to think and make decisions based on what is going on around them.

[BS15_RED]

Correct, then took over as manager after Beck left.

Correct, and Lee Johnson was regularly a ball boy there too, with strict instructions to hang on to the ball as long as possible if Cambridge were winning!

[chipdawg]

John Beck's tactics may have been somewhat 'agricultural', but as others have pointed out, he was very forward thinking in many other ways. He was also brilliant at getting the most out of limited players so as long as he's not teaching young coaches that its all about the route 1 stuff and is passing on the many other things he's learnt in his time, then what's the problem. Everyone change attitudes and opinions, over a 25 year period- why can't a football manager?